CFZ NFL Player Contracts and why star players feel the need to hold out

[BlindFaith]

”Fully guaranteed“ in the NFL is misleading. In the other sports, both the dollar amounts and the length of the contract is honored. In the NFL, only the amount of money is honored by teams. So for example, despite Cousins’ “guaranteed money” contract being spread over 5 years, once the team pays the guaranteed amount they can cut him- potentially BEFORE the years are up.

Therefore, saying a player should “honor” the contract they sign- shouldn’t that go both ways? The owners often aren’t sticking to their end of the deal.

Then let players union work out better deals for players. As it is now, players can be cut. Zack signed one of those contracts.
So honor it and play.
As said earlier, no one forced him to sign the contract he did. Now he doesnt like it. Too bad. Retire, pay back whatever money you haven't yet earned and go find another job making 13 mil a year.

 

[dargonking999]

The players don’t really have much choice with these non guaranteed contracts at end and why they take these huge signing bonuses which helps the teams manage the cap with very low hits in early years of contract.

It’s all part of doing business in NFL. The bigger point though is that after these guarantees are met teams can release players near end of contracts which is cause for players wanting to renegotiate.

And why players shouldn’t be presented as bad guys not wanting to ride out end of contract. It goes both ways which is Bobs point here.

Again this is just nonsense. Players get cut in the NBA and MLB before the contract is up.

The only literal difference between the MLB, NBA, and NFL. Is simply that the whole contract isnt guaranteed money. If the NFL players got Fully guaranteed deals, they would be signing for less money, and less years, and these players and agents know this. That's why this farce continues to exist. Teams have cut players who have guaranteed money, they have also traded them. Teams will get rid of any player that is harming and not helping the team regardless of guaranteed or not.

I don't hold any sympathy for these players, just like I don't hold any sympathy for the owners. If a player holds out, I can care less, they are doing what's best for them. And when owners play hardball and refuse to sign a player to a huge multi year deal, they are also doing what's best for them. It's all the same, all anyone in this sport cares about is what's best for them. Owners don't want to win for the fans, they want to win to make more money. Players don't want to play well for the fans, they want to play well so they can get more money. Maybe it's time for the fans to stop caring about both sides and just accept that neither the owners or players are doing anything for the fans.

 

[john van brocklin]

The only problem I have with this whole post is

They signed the contracts.

Kirk cousins refused to play without a fully guaranteed deal, and he got one. If players want fully guaranteed contracts. Then they should refuse to sign a deal that doesn't give them fully guaranteed deals. Instead they choose to sign these deals because they give huge lump sums of signing bonuses or large guaranteed money. And then when that money runs out they hold out for a new deal if they played great, and prepare to be cut if they haven't. They know exactly what they are doing and continue to do it because they care for the money first. It isn't about respect, its about money.

And all threads like this do is try and act like this million dollar athletes who sign these contracts are the victims. As the old adage goes: It's takes two to tango, and the owners and players have been doing the tango for a long while. I have no sympathy when a team signs a player who immediately begins to suck. And I have no sympathy when a player out performs his deal and wants to cry about fair play.

 

[Diehardblues]

Again this is just nonsense. Players get cut in the NBA and MLB before the contract is up.

The only literal difference between the MLB, NBA, and NFL. Is simply that the whole contract isnt guaranteed money. If the NFL players got Fully guaranteed deals, they would be signing for less money, and less years, and these players and agents know this. That's why this farce continues to exist. Teams have cut players who have guaranteed money, they have also traded them. Teams will get rid of any player that is harming and not helping the team regardless of guaranteed or not.

I don't hold any sympathy for these players, just like I don't hold any sympathy for the owners. If a player holds out, I can care less, they are doing what's best for them. And when owners play hardball and refuse to sign a player to a huge multi year deal, they are also doing what's best for them. It's all the same, all anyone in this sport cares about is what's best for them. Owners don't want to win for the fans, they want to win to make more money. Players don't want to play well for the fans, they want to play well so they can get more money. Maybe it's time for the fans to stop caring about both sides and just accept that neither the owners or players are doing anything for the fans.

I think we all need to take a step back. The NFL isn’t just a football league , it’s sports entertainment at the highest level.

These Star players have the leading roles in the product. Much like a feature film or tv series.

Fans get too caught up in winning at all cost when this isn’t the initial priorities of the ownership or players. It’s a business first.

 

[rags747]

Wake me up when IBM, GOOG, AAPL, TSLA etc offer employees guaranteed contracts. Until then the players will have to live with their millions. Not satisfied with millions then educate yourself and become an owner, but you will have to risk it all to make it. Ty…

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Martins cap hit this year is about 11 million. Next year it’s over 23 million which tells me he will be released in 2024. Which probably fuels his incentive to get a deal done this year. It’s also incentive for FO to get a deal done unless moving on next year is part of the plan.

The guaranteed money of his contract has already been met. I’ll attach the numbers below. But it all fits into what Bob has presented.

https://overthecap.com/player/zack-martin/2955

He's still owed a bunch of bonus money so he's getting paid next year regardless.

He's going to get an extension, the "holdout" is just posturing.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Again this is just nonsense. Players get cut in the NBA and MLB before the contract is up.

The only literal difference between the MLB, NBA, and NFL. Is simply that the whole contract isnt guaranteed money.

This is a massive difference.

And MLB player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and will get paid all $200m even if they're released after year 5.

A NFL player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and might only make $120m of that.

 

[Bobhaze]

I think his loss of production and injuries got him cut early. When they continue to be awesome they usually finish the contract or get extended.

I agree with the loss of production Glim. And as I said, Dez needed to go- I was in favor of moving on. But I was just making the point to the “honor the contract“ crowd that teams don’t honor their end many times as in this case with Dez. He signed a 5 yr contract but the Cowboys only paid him 3 years.

So why do we get mad at players when they hold out? In reality- historically- the players honor their end of the deal way more often than the owners do.

This is a massive difference.

And MLB player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and will get paid all $200m even if they're released after year 5.

A NFL player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and might only make $120m of that.

Yep. This is the major difference between the NFL and the other major pro sports. In the MLB, NBA and NHL, all player contracts are completely guaranteed. Money and years.

 

[dargonking999]

This is a massive difference.

And MLB player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and will get paid all $200m even if they're released after year 5.

A NFL player signs a 5-year, $200m deal and might only make $120m of that.

So then he signed a 5 year 120 million dollar deal. If the only money that's guaranteed is 120 million dollars, then that's the deal. This something known and accepted by both sides. Trying to say it's not fair as a third party from the outside is pointless. If the players cared as much as they say they do, then they and there agents would fight for them. But they don't, because they don't want guaranteed contracts. Because it means less overall money

 

[dargonking999]

I agree with the loss of production Glim. And as I said, Dez needed to go- I was in favor of moving on. But I was just making the point to the “honor the contract“ crowd that teams don’t honor their end many times as in this case with Dez. He signed a 5 yr contract but the Cowboys only paid him 3 years.

So why do we get mad at players when they hold out? In reality- historically- the players honor their end of the deal way more often than the owners do.

Yep. This is the major difference between the NFL and the other major pro sports. In the MLB, NBA and NHL, all player contracts are completely guaranteed. Money and years.

Years are not guaranteed. Only the money. Teams routinely cut players before the years is up.on contracts. They just have to pay out the money on the deal. And in some cases if another team signs the player the original team that cut him will only have to pay a portion of the money that's owed him.

 

[StarOfGlory]

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of NFL player contracts. Too many of us fans believe if a player signs a 4 year contract, both the owner and player are locked in together. That is simply not true. In fact, here are some truths about NFL player contracts most fans don’t understand:

• Once the guaranteed money in an NFL contract is paid to a player, the team can cut the player BEFORE the length of the contract is completed. Obviously there are cap implications if a team cuts a player before the contract is completed but many teams still do it. In fact, here are a couple of former Cowboys marquee players who were cut before their contract years were complete:
  • Dez Bryant- in 2015, he signed a 5 year, $70 million dollar contract. He was cut in after 3 years of that deal and his guaranteed money was paid. In other words, the Cowboys didn’t pay him for 5 years. Fans don’t seem to understand this.
  • DeMarco Murray- signed a 5 year contract with the e-girls in 2015, was traded in 2016 to the titans and eventually finished his career in 2018 before his contract was complete.
  • There are several other star NFL players who were cut before their contract length was honored. Like Richard Sherman when he was in Sea, Navarro Bowman in SF also signed a multi-year contract and yet was cut before it was finished.
• NFL teams also have financial “outs“ when it comes to a player getting hurt or underperforming their contract, while not having any responsibility to increase a player’s pay when a player overperforms their deal.
• The NFL is the ONLY major pro sports league that does not guarantee their players contracts.
  • The NBA, NHL and MLB all have guaranteed contract for their players.

So…usually the only recourse a player has once their guaranteed money is paid is to hold out, which not only means they don’t get paid — but strongly shifts public opinion against them as the player is branded “greedy” or “not helping the team” by ownership that simply doesn’t want to pay more than is on the dotted line.

Why is Zack Martin holding out? No other pro spot, no other sports job allows for employment contracts to be torn up without paying the agreed amount and length of a contract. It’s ridiculous that owners keep requiring players in the NFL to compete without security.

Don’t fall for the verbal tricks from NFL owners. Don’t buy into their sob stories. They don’t honor the contracts they sign with players, so why criticize a player for holding out for their own protection? These billionaire owners will not be honoring their commitments and will still be raking in billions. Why fault a player for protecting themselves?

Great post. There are plenty of NBA owners who would be ecstatic with NFL-style contracts.

 

[Bobhaze]

So then he signed a 5 year 120 million dollar deal. If the only money that's guaranteed is 120 million dollars, then that's the deal. This something known and accepted by both sides. Trying to say it's not fair as a third party from the outside is pointless. If the players cared as much as they say they do, then they and there agents would fight for them. But they don't, because they don't want guaranteed contracts. Because it means less overall money

Yes, it’s accepted because what choice does a player have? It’s part of the collective bargaining agreement that players agree to but they have been fighting to get fairer contract situations for years. The next CBA will not be up for renegotiation and renewal until prior to the 2030 season.

So what choice does a player have? Sign the deal offered…or not. Or hold out. It has been said for years by many sports journalists that the NFL has by far the most holdouts than any other sport because of the owners lack of agreement to pay a fully guaranteed contract.

So players are supposed to act in good faith, honoring every day of the contract while the owners can decide how long they choose to honor a contract arbitrarily?

 

[ghst187]

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of NFL player contracts. Too many of us fans believe if a player signs a 4 year contract, both the owner and player are locked in together. That is simply not true. In fact, here are some truths about NFL player contracts most fans don’t understand:

• Once the guaranteed money in an NFL contract is paid to a player, the team can cut the player BEFORE the length of the contract is completed. Obviously there are cap implications if a team cuts a player before the contract is completed but many teams still do it. In fact, here are a couple of former Cowboys marquee players who were cut before their contract years were complete:
  • Dez Bryant- in 2015, he signed a 5 year, $70 million dollar contract. He was cut in after 3 years of that deal and his guaranteed money was paid. In other words, the Cowboys didn’t pay him for 5 years. Fans don’t seem to understand this.
  • DeMarco Murray- signed a 5 year contract with the e-girls in 2015, was traded in 2016 to the titans and eventually finished his career in 2018 before his contract was complete.
  • There are several other star NFL players who were cut before their contract length was honored. Like Richard Sherman when he was in Sea, Navarro Bowman in SF also signed a multi-year contract and yet was cut before it was finished.
• NFL teams also have financial “outs“ when it comes to a player getting hurt or underperforming their contract, while not having any responsibility to increase a player’s pay when a player overperforms their deal.
• The NFL is the ONLY major pro sports league that does not guarantee their players contracts.
  • The NBA, NHL and MLB all have guaranteed contract for their players.

So…usually the only recourse a player has once their guaranteed money is paid is to hold out, which not only means they don’t get paid — but strongly shifts public opinion against them as the player is branded “greedy” or “not helping the team” by ownership that simply doesn’t want to pay more than is on the dotted line.

Why is Zack Martin holding out? No other pro spot, no other sports job allows for employment contracts to be torn up without paying the agreed amount and length of a contract. It’s ridiculous that owners keep requiring players in the NFL to compete without security.

Don’t fall for the verbal tricks from NFL owners. Don’t buy into their sob stories. They don’t honor the contracts they sign with players, so why criticize a player for holding out for their own protection? These billionaire owners will not be honoring their commitments and will still be raking in billions. Why fault a player for protecting themselves?

Good post!
Yet example #1092 as to why Goodell is an idiot and terrible commissioner

 

[Bobhaze]

Then let players union work out better deals for players. As it is now, players can be cut. Zack signed one of those contracts.
So honor it and play.
As said earlier, no one forced him to sign the contract he did. Now he doesnt like it. Too bad. Retire, pay back whatever money you haven't yet earned and go find another job making 13 mil a year.

Let me ask in return- is it ok for the owners to not honor their end of the contract deal? If a player signs a 5 year deal but the owner decides he doesn’t want the player any more and gets cut after 3 years…is that not a failure to honor the original deal?

I understand that is ok under the current CBA because of the payment of a lesser guaranteed amount. But is it right? Arguing that Zack Martin isn’t honoring “his obligation” is only half of the equation.

We can certainly agree to disagree.

 

[Bobhaze]

Good post!
Yet example #1092 as to why Goodell is an idiot and terrible commissioner

Goodell has been great for the owners.

 

[dargonking999]

Yes, it’s accepted because what choice does a player have? It’s part of the collective bargaining agreement that players agree to but they have been fighting to get fairer contract situations for years. The next CBA will not be up for renegotiation and renewal until prior to the 2030 season.

So what choice does a player have? Sign the deal offered…or not. Or hold out. It has been said for years by many sports journalists that the NFL has by far the most holdouts than any other sport because of the owners lack of agreement to pay a fully guaranteed contract.

So players are supposed to act in good faith, honoring every day of the contract while the owners can decide how long they choose to honor a contract arbitrarily?

Sounds like players need better representation in the next cba then. Because they have had two cracks at the CBA in the last 15 years and still have not gotten guaranteed contracts. And in some players cases they have gotten fully guaranteed deals. And if I'm not mistaken rookies no longer get the huge inflated deals but fully guaranteed deals that are significantly less then what was going before the change wasn't it?

So the only misunderstanding is the fans. Which neither the players or owners care about because yall will still buy the gear, and still go to the games regardless of who holds out and who gets guaranteed money and who doesn't

 

[glimmerman]

I agree with the loss of production Glim. And as I said, Dez needed to go- I was in favor of moving on. But I was just making the point to the “honor the contract“ crowd that teams don’t honor their end many times as in this case with Dez. He signed a 5 yr contract but the Cowboys only paid him 3 years.

So why do we get mad at players when they hold out? In reality- historically- the players honor their end of the deal way more often than the owners do.

Yep. This is the major difference between the NFL and the other major pro sports. In the MLB, NBA and NHL, all player contracts are completely guaranteed. Money and years.

The players look at the big number and are perfectly wanting to honor it. Example if Diggs new deal. Over 100 million. But only 43 guaranteed.

He gets a 21 million signing bonus. Don’t that go towards the guaranteed. Half of the guaranteed money is already paid with in a few years. Next year the team takes the hit of 17 or 20 million and most or all of the guaranteed is done in 3 years and they can be traded or cut. The agent needs to let them know that. They are the ones having them hold out. The agent has a cap they can take from these young kids. I think it’s no more than 6%.. Along with taxes and state taxes they may clear half. These players need to have a good CPA because they play in different states every week and have to pay there state taxes that may very in %.. I bet our players hate playing away at giants or jets. Huge state taxes.

I hate seeing the player hold out. But to hold off a surgery or holding out 2 years before your rookie contract is up is a bad choice to me for the player being loyal to the contract signed. But they also have many examples of players and their contracts being used to be cut or traded for the benefit of the owners.

Basically if I am player getting a contract I want the most guaranteed money I can get. That’s what I have to count on.

Martin has made 75 million already. So he probably cleared 35-40 of it. Not bad if you are smart. And look how young he is. Crazy to me. JJ needs to sign him to his 2 voided years. Then take a long look at him.

 

[Bobhaze]

Sounds like players need better representation in the next cba then. Because they have had two cracks at the CBA in the last 15 years and still have not gotten guaranteed contracts. And in some players cases they have gotten fully guaranteed deals. And if I'm not mistaken rookies no longer get the huge inflated deals but fully guaranteed deals that are significantly less then what was going before the change wasn't it?

So the only misunderstanding is the fans. Which neither the players or owners care about because yall will still buy the gear, and still go to the games regardless of who holds out and who gets guaranteed money and who doesn't

DK I certainly agree with you that the players need better representation in the next CBA. The NFL Players Union is by far the weakest of the 4 US pro sports. NFL owners have the biggest slice of the pie compared to owners in other sports.

 

[Flamma]

Don’t fall for the verbal tricks from NFL owners. Don’t buy into their sob stories. They don’t honor the contracts they sign with players, so why criticize a player for holding out for their own protection? These billionaire owners will not be honoring their commitments and will still be raking in billions. Why fault a player for protecting themselves?

This is word salad. The owners made no such commitment. How can you accuse someone of not honoring something they never committed to? It's like renting with the option to buy. You don't have to buy. It's right there in the contract.

Fans get mad at players for holding out because fans assumed players knew what they were signing, and agreed to play under those terms. You can't say the same about the owners since they never agreed to paying out the contract in full.

That said, I don't care if players hold out. They are using their leverage to make more. You hold out under contract, you don't get paid.

 

[kskboys]

There is a fundamental misunderstanding of NFL player contracts. Too many of us fans believe if a player signs a 4 year contract, both the owner and player are locked in together. That is simply not true. In fact, here are some truths about NFL player contracts most fans don’t understand:

• Once the guaranteed money in an NFL contract is paid to a player, the team can cut the player BEFORE the length of the contract is completed. Obviously there are cap implications if a team cuts a player before the contract is completed but many teams still do it. In fact, here are a couple of former Cowboys marquee players who were cut before their contract years were complete:
  • Dez Bryant- in 2015, he signed a 5 year, $70 million dollar contract. He was cut in after 3 years of that deal and his guaranteed money was paid. In other words, the Cowboys didn’t pay him for 5 years. Fans don’t seem to understand this.
  • DeMarco Murray- signed a 5 year contract with the e-girls in 2015, was traded in 2016 to the titans and eventually finished his career in 2018 before his contract was complete.
  • There are several other star NFL players who were cut before their contract length was honored. Like Richard Sherman when he was in Sea, Navarro Bowman in SF also signed a multi-year contract and yet was cut before it was finished.
• NFL teams also have financial “outs“ when it comes to a player getting hurt or underperforming their contract, while not having any responsibility to increase a player’s pay when a player overperforms their deal.
• The NFL is the ONLY major pro sports league that does not guarantee their players contracts.
  • The NBA, NHL and MLB all have guaranteed contract for their players.

So…usually the only recourse a player has once their guaranteed money is paid is to hold out, which not only means they don’t get paid — but strongly shifts public opinion against them as the player is branded “greedy” or “not helping the team” by ownership that simply doesn’t want to pay more than is on the dotted line.

Why is Zack Martin holding out? No other pro spot, no other sports job allows for employment contracts to be torn up without paying the agreed amount and length of a contract. It’s ridiculous that owners keep requiring players in the NFL to compete without security.

Don’t fall for the verbal tricks from NFL owners. Don’t buy into their sob stories. They don’t honor the contracts they sign with players, so why criticize a player for holding out for their own protection? These billionaire owners will not be honoring their commitments and will still be raking in billions. Why fault a player for protecting themselves?

They honor those contracts 100%. If it's not guaranteed money, it's not in the contract.

A player has the option of getting more guaranteed money by taking a bit less on the contract. Most choose not to.

The billionaire owners are definitely POS's. No argument there.