CFZ NFL Player Contracts and why star players feel the need to hold out

[kskboys]

I agree but he signed a 5 yr deal not a 3.

Not really. The real contract is however long the guaranteed money holds out.

Both sides are aware of this.

 

[Bobhaze]

This is word salad. The owners made no such commitment. How can you accuse someone of not honoring something they never committed to? It's like renting with the option to buy. You don't have to buy. It's right there in the contract.

Fans get mad at players for holding out because fans assumed players knew what they were signing, and agreed to play under those terms. You can't say the same about the owners since they never agreed to paying out the contract in full.

That said, I don't care if players hold out. They are using their leverage to make more. You hold out under contract, you don't get paid.

Flamma I see your point and you are right that the owners never agreed to guarantee the years and the total amount of the contract. They only guarantee a pre-agreed upon amount. Which certainly favors the owners.

I guess my feeling in this is while the players have technically agreed to this arrangement, I think it’s petty of these multi-billionaire owners to be this one sided to the very players who make the NFL product what it is and make the owners tons of cash. As I’ve stated several times on this thread, the NFL is the only league that doesn’t fully guarantee its players’ contracts.

Not really. The real contract is however long the guaranteed money holds out.

Both sides are aware of this.

True. I just don’t think it’s right. And why I side with the players about 95% of the time.

 

[kskboys]

Flamma I see your point and you are right that the owners never agreed to guarantee the years and the total amount of the contract. They only guarantee a pre-agreed upon amount. Which certainly favors the owners.

I guess my feeling in this is while the players have technically agreed to this arrangement, I think it’s petty of these multi-billionaire owners to be this one sided to the very players who make the NFL product what it it and make the owners tons of cash. As I’ve stated several times on this thread, the NFL is the only league that doesn’t fully guarantee its players’ contracts.

I also think they should.

However, what we're suggesting would be a whole new way of doing business. The very nature of NFL contracts would change.

 

[Bobhaze]

I also think they should.

However, what we're suggesting would be a whole new way of doing business. The very nature of NFL contracts would change.

True. And the owners will fight that tooth and nail in the next CBA. The owners in the others sports are exponentially more generous and fair IMO.

 

[kskboys]

I would imagine this guaranteed/not guaranteed trash started just to appease the players' need to be paid more than the next guy. Which I think is childish.

Bob, if you and me were doing the same job, and I was making 20 mil/year and you were making 21 mil/year, I wouldn't give two crapps. To me, that's the same amount. There is nothing a normal person could buy w/ 21 mil that they couldn't buy w/ 20 mil.

 

[kskboys]

True. And the owners will fight that tooth and nail in the next CBA. The owners in the others sports are exponentially more generous and fair IMO.

I do not believe that. I think they were simply forced into it, or that's the way it's done. The owners fight tooth and nail for any player benefits. That's why they have strikes and such.

The MLB system is a mess. If you're for the rich getting richer, then you like that system.

 

[BlindFaith]

Let me ask in return- is it ok for the owners to not honor their end of the contract deal? If a player signs a 5 year deal but the owner decides he doesn’t want the player any more and gets cut after 3 years…is that not a failure to honor the original deal?

I understand that is ok under the current CBA because of the payment of a lesser guaranteed amount. But is it right? Arguing that Zack Martin isn’t honoring “his obligation” is only half of the equation.

We can certainly agree to disagree.

Good players seldom get cut. If they do, then its because of contract/salary.
Under performing players get cut.
Play well, you'll get paid. If you get cut, some other team will pick you up.

My question to you is - how do you handle players who simply quit wanting to play hard? Its a tough game. This is also a sport. Performance is critical.
You sign a guy to a 5 year, fully guaranteed contract. Then he quits playing hard, slacks off after year 1. Then what?

Maybe only allow one year contracts after the rookie deal. Fully guaranteed. No one will be in favor of that. So basically you're left with what we have.

 

[Flamma]

Flamma I see your point and you are right that the owners never agreed to guarantee the years and the total amount of the contract. They only guarantee a pre-agreed upon amount. Which certainly favors the owners.

I guess my feeling in this is while the players have technically agreed to this arrangement, I think it’s petty of these multi-billionaire owners to be this one sided to the very players who make the NFL product what it is and make the owners tons of cash. As I’ve stated several times on this thread, the NFL is the only league that doesn’t fully guarantee its players’ contracts.

Understood. IMO fully guaranteed contracts with a hard cap in the NFL is bad from a fan's perspective, and bad for the team. It's only good for the player. If a player is happy when he signs a contract, what's the issue? In many cases, if a player lives up to the contract, he sees all of that money. Look at DLaw, as opposed to Zeke.

I think the players union made a big mistake in the recent CBA. Players now cannot hold out on their rookie contract without severe penalties. What did the union get in return? Players should be able to use their leverage. The union allowed that to be taken away. Sometimes I wonder who the union is working for.

 

[StarOfGlory]

True. And the owners will fight that tooth and nail in the next CBA. The owners in the others sports are exponentially more generous and fair IMO.

In a strange way, the current nature of contracts in the NFL can be of most benefit to star players, while the inverse is true for the NBA, where the average player is better off and the stars, though they earn a lot of money, are tied into their deals.

 

[jrumann59]

That’s not why NFL players hold out. They hold out because they know the owners do NOT have to honor the length of the contract the player signs. Look at Dez B’s contract. In 2015 he signed a 5 year contract $70 million- worth $14 mil a season. But once the Cowboys paid him his “guaranteed amount“ (less than $70 mil) they cut him in 2018.

Now I was not upset that Dez was released. But technically, he was released BEFORE his contract was up. Did the Cowboys honor his contract? No, not in terms of the years since he only played in 3 of the 5 yr contract he signed.

Yes but was Dez's performance on par with his contract when he was cut? There is some nuance to some of these deals. If you play well and live up to your contract then issues hardly arise but if the ROI on a contract is below a certain level does the team need to honor it, same as if a player out plays his contract does he have the right to hold out for more. Is a lot of it just numbers yes but there are cases of nuances as well. As for Zack I think his agent is doing him no favors, they fired the 1st shot across the bow of Good Ship Jones. I think Zack is a HOF but the optics on this is bad. Is he better than most of the guards that have gotten paid recently, maybe, but he is the one that set that price bench mark when he signed his deal 4 years ago. I mean if every player felt the way he does and does what he is doing camps would be empty due to monetary one upsmanship. Personally if Zack and his agent approached this differently I think Jerry would be more inclined to do something but putting it in the public is going to make Jerry dig in most likely.

 

[ghst187]

Goodell has been great for the owners.

Terrible for the game

 

[kskboys]

Terrible for the game

Great for the game. Has the toughest NFL Commish job ever.

 

[ghst187]

Great for the game. Has the toughest NFL Commish job ever.

Agree to disagree

 

[zrinkill]

Great for the game. Has the toughest NFL Commish job ever.

 

[kskboys]

Agree to disagree

Of course. So many have fallen for the Goodell hate, when in reality he is nothing but a pawn for the owners. Paid well to take the heat and shut up. Does an astoundingly good job, especially considering the extreme issues at hand w/ CTE's, Kneeling, Contracts, and a plethora of other problems. He is paid around 40 mil/year for a huge reason, he's amazing at what he does.

 

[RD21]

They honor those contracts 100%. If it's not guaranteed money, it's not in the contract.

A player has the option of getting more guaranteed money by taking a bit less on the contract. Most choose not to.

The billionaire owners are definitely POS's. No argument there.

Exactly. Once they are paid the "guaranteed money" their contract has been honored by management. The years & non guaranteed money are just fluff for the egos & headlines.

I'm a Contractor (31yrs now). Some of my commercial clients hire me for long term service contracts. The only thing in those contracts that matter to me, is the guaranteed money. I could care less if they cut my term, or re-negotiate once I've been paid the guaranteed portion. I view the "futures" part of the term, as hypothetical. If it happens, great. If not, I don't care as I've already been paid the most significant part. Most of that is just a dangling carrot anyways...

 

[charron]

Personally I think the NFL has the best balance of guaranteed and production based pay out of all the major sports leagues. The salary cap has done its part to help ensure this balance unlike in other leagues. Almost no recourse for MLB owner who overpays a guy and then the player doesn't live up to the contract, but their is no cap so there is also less damage to the team overall.

 

[CouchCoach]

True. And the owners will fight that tooth and nail in the next CBA. The owners in the others sports are exponentially more generous and fair IMO.

The other 3 major sports have stronger unions.

 

[RD21]

The owners in the others sports are exponentially more generous and fair IMO.

I think they're all pretty generous. Is there another occupation where the employees receive 48-52% of the total revenue..?

 

[USArmyVet]

So you say owners don't honor player contracts so don't feel bad for them yet we are supposed to feel bad for players when they don't honor the contracts they sign? Okay.