NFL Supplemental Draft

[dbair1967]

Calling him a thug is BS...

and I'll ask again, do you know something nobody else knows?

he's always been trouble since the moment he set foot on campus...he is a trouble making loser with an apparent drug problem...

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I'd wager a 5th on Brooks without blinking. How many 5th rounders will make this team anyway?

Pat Watkins

 

[InmanRoshi]

The bottom line is that you can get these guys on the cheap. And now that I think about it, Bernie K. & Rob Moore where the only players that where worth while drafting in the sup draft.

I think both Mike Whale and Jamal Williams were worth their picks.

 

[WilmingtonHeel]

What is a thug to some of you? Is a young black athlete that has gotten in some trouble? just curious not trying to stir the pot I see this word thrown around alot. White kids and other kids of other races get in trouble ALL the time but I don't see people calling certain ones thugs

 

[JIGGYFLY]

What is a thug to some of you? Is a young black athlete that has gotten in some trouble? just curious not trying to stir the pot I see this word thrown around alot. White kids and other kids of other races get in trouble ALL the time but I don't see people calling certain ones thugs

I would like a definition also.

 

[DLCassidy]

Well, if the Cowboys do draft him in the supplemental draft, or try to draft him, I'll take that as a sign that Parcells got the thumbs up from Groh... and if that's the case, I'll be content to have them take a chance on him...

Bingo. It's really just that simple. Parcells and Groh are friends and Groh knows all the inside skinny (I almost said dope:laugh1: ) on Brooks.

In general I don't like the supplemental draft because whoever you take is already behind the other rookies getting acclimated to being a pro player. It makes sense if you have a gaping hole at a position to do something which I don't think we have at ILB. If Groh gives Parcells the thumbs up my finger still doesn't get twitchy until the 5th round.

 

[silverbear]

its not attacks...everything I've said about him was true SB...

So, you stand by the "trouble making thug" bit??

If so, I challenge you to back that argument up... show me one thing in his history that suggests a thuggish mindset on his part??

Absent that, nope, everything you said is NOT true... and a lot of what you said merely displays a superificial knowledge of the facts... for example-- Brooks' people claim that his positive test for weed was the result of ingesting second hand smoke at a party (and the report was that the level of THC in his system was rather low)... obviously, that might just be BS from his people, but I'll bet you didn't even know they were making such a claim, did you??

Having attended a few parties down in Charlottesville in a younger day, I can personally testify that weed is present at all of them, so their arguments don't sound out of the realm of possibility to me...

Before we continue to argue this, and before you take any of my arguments personally, I'd like to stress that while I have a problem with your take on this, you are a poster I hold in great respect... I don't want to come out of this with you feeling animosity toward me...

he was fat and incredibly out of shape, reports are he was over 280 lbs and only recently "got down" to below 270...

Yes, he was indeed fat... he was also injured, so he couldn't work out, couldn't work on keeping his weight down...

And like I said, he played at 265, ran in the 4.5s at that weight, so he can obviously carry it... so 273 pounds is NOT so out of shape that he can't back to peak condition... that issue is simply not a problem here...

he did get tossed out of school, not warned or suspended, TOSSED...I dont care that you think UVA is different than other places, they wouldnt be tossing a guy supposedly worth a top-10 draft pick at one point for simply smoking some weed on a couple occassions...

Which simply shows that you have no conception of the atmosphere at UVa, which alumni arrogantly refer to as "Mr. Jefferson's University"... they are a starchy, hide-bound bunch, and yeah, they have been known to boot athletes for offenses that other schools would never bat an eye at...

Think, pal, how many schools kick a guy out without ever having suspended him first??

The point I've been trying to make is that Al Groh has a very different kind of pressure put on him by the alumni, the boosters of that program... this move was probably forced on him... the evidence of that is the way he and the program are still trying to support him as he prepares for his NFL audition...

you say I didnt do my homework on the guy, are you privvy to info nobody else knows about him? How do you know his issue is ONLY hitting the bong a couple of times?

Don't go down that innuendo road, David... you're clearly assumed that there's something else there, and I'm telling you that I remember players being tossed for less...

And I have a strong distaste for trashing anybody based strictly on innuendo... if you've got something to back up your beliefs, bring them on... but you don't have anything, do you??

I do agree that IF we took him Parcells has gotten a recommendation from groh, but I think if that fantasy land scenario was going to happen Groh would have never tossed him off the team in the first place

I'm bettin' my last dime that Groh is gonna give Brooks a positive report to the scouts who attend... he wouldn't bother showing up there if he was gonna do anything to hurt Ahmad's chances, he'd simply let people who inquire know discreetly that he has little use for him... that fact alone should tell you that Groh really didn't want to boot Brooks, but he was given little choice in the matter...

No, I don't know that last assertion for a fact, but unlike your speculation that there's something else there, that we don't know about, my speculation is based on common sense (UVa wouldn't let him work out on-campus if he was persona non grata with them, and Groh wouldn't show up to the workout to support him)...

I'm sorry, man, but you have prejudged the guy while ignoring very real indicators out there that your judgement is flawed... perhaps that's because you didn't know about them, but I'd suggest before you pass a judgement like "trouble making thug", you really ought to make yourself aware of the facts...

Last summer, I was one of the most vocal critics of Maurice Clarett, I called him a punk... but when I made that statement, I had researched his history pretty thoroughly... I could discourse at length about his assorted transgressions... before you go rippin' on Brooks, you really ought to do your homework too... if you did, I have a hunch you wouldn't be so hard on the guy...

If you say you don't want a guy with a drug history on the team because you'll constantly be waiting for him to flunk another drug test, I can understand that... if you say you don't want the Cowboys taking a flyer on him because you worry that he won't do what's necessary to stay in playing shape, I can even understand that a little (though I personally think the only reason he got out of shape was his injuries)...

But I'm sorry, the hateful rhetoric you've aimed his way is just over the top, and I see no validity at all in the arguments you've forwarded against him...

 

[silverbear]

and I'll ask again, do you know something nobody else knows?

Nope, but I appear to know a few things that YOU don't know... your indictments are long on opinion, but utterly lacking in anything resembling facts...

"If UVa kicked him clean off the team, there must be something more there"... that seems to be your argument, and it's beyond weak...

he's always been trouble since the moment he set foot on campus...

Oh please, tell me all about the "trouble" he caused on campus before being kicked off for flunking a drug test...

That sentence clearly shows us all that you're arguing out of of pure knee-jerk bias... you apparently hate anybody who's ever had a drug problem...

Perhaps you have a personal reason for hating the drug culture as extremely as you do, and I won't inquire as to what that reason is, or why you feel so strongly on this subject... but bluntly, you've been on a bit of a jihad against that guy, one that comes off as irrational... you sound downright unhinged, the way you go off each and every time his name comes up...

Excuse me if I find all that rather asinine...

However, I'm through arguing this with you, because it occurs to me that if you're gonna harbor some irrational hatred of a player you really know little about, then there's no point in trying to make you see reason...

 

[silverbear]

I'm not one of the ones calling Brooks a thug, but in my definition, a thug is somebody who goes out to hurt or intimidate others...

 

[burmafrd]

Where there is smoke there is usually fire. AND I find it hard to believe that Virginia is as it has been described by some people here who may have an agenda of their own. Brooks is a troublemaker that really just does not seem to be worth the trouble.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I'm not one of the ones calling Brooks a thug, but in my definition, a thug is somebody who goes out to hurt or intimidate others...

Sounds like a linebacker to me:

But seriously to exspect players to turn there aggressive impulses on and off once they leave the feild is a bit much its no wonder so many players get in trouble.

 

[silver]

i'm starting a new movement the NMFDPOL (no more first day picks on linebackers). Offense, Offense, Offense.

 

[InmanRoshi]

If he would have returned healthy next year and had an outstanding year at Viriginia he would have been a 1st round draft pick, but instead he's going to be a 4th or 5th round supplemental pick. I don't could care less about people smoking weed in their free time, but when you literally piss away millions of dollars because you can't put the bong down there's usually a problem there. People want to equate this to their college days, but its simply not the same. The consequences are so much greater, and if he doesn't have the basic common sense or self control to refrain in the past with so much on the line I don't see why he would start now.

Secondly, players don't get smaller as they get older they only get bigger. If he has to bust his butt to get down to 270 at 21, then he'll be 285 by the time he's 24. He'll be 300 lbs. at 26-27. He just didn't look nearly as explosive last year as he has in the past. Just like Mike 'BMW' Williams or Andy Katzenmoyer, I think you are seeing a player who physically peaked at 19. He's only going to get bigger, slower and more cumbersome from here on out. It happens sometimes.

 

[dbair1967]

What is a thug to some of you? Is a young black athlete that has gotten in some trouble? just curious not trying to stir the pot I see this word thrown around alot. White kids and other kids of other races get in trouble ALL the time but I don't see people calling certain ones thugs

thanks for bringing the race card into this

it actually had NOTHING to do with the conversation, but somehow you had to bring it in

David

 

[silverbear]

Where there is smoke there is usually fire. AND I find it hard to believe that Virginia is as it has been described by some people here who may have an agenda of their own. Brooks is a troublemaker that really just does not seem to be worth the trouble.

Believe what you want to believe, and don't worry that you don't have any facts to back it up...

 

[silverbear]

[/B]

Sounds like a linebacker to me:

Yeah, thuggery on the field, I can live with... LOL...

But seriously to exspect players to turn there aggressive impulses on and off once they leave the feild is a bit much its no wonder so many players get in trouble.

The thing is, Ahmad Brooks hasn't been in any of THAT kind of trouble...

 

[dbair1967]

So, you stand by the "trouble making thug" bit?? <<<<

yeah, until somebody proves otherwise...

>>>Absent that, nope, everything you said is NOT true... and a lot of what you said merely displays a superificial knowledge of the facts... for example-- Brooks' people claim that his positive test for weed was the result of ingesting second hand smoke at a party (and the report was that the level of THC in his system was rather low)... obviously, that might just be BS from his people, but I'll bet you didn't even know they were making such a claim, did you?? <<<<

and you honestly believe he got kicked out for that? no other disciplinary action, kicked OUT- please

>>>Having attended a few parties down in Charlottesville in a younger day, I can personally testify that weed is present at all of them, so their arguments don't sound out of the realm of possibility to me... <<<

nobody I know of has ever been kicked out of school for attending parties...

>>>Before we continue to argue this, and before you take any of my arguments personally, I'd like to stress that while I have a problem with your take on this, you are a poster I hold in great respect... I don't want to come out of this with you feeling animosity toward me... <<<<

we're just discussing something here...thanks for the compliment and dont worry, I wasnt ever going to feel any animosity about it...

>>>And like I said, he played at 265, ran in the 4.5s at that weight, so he can obviously carry it... so 273 pounds is NOT so out of shape that he can't back to peak condition... that issue is simply not a problem here... <<<

I dont know what he has run in workouts, but he looked painfully slow and sluggish last season to me

>>>Which simply shows that you have no conception of the atmosphere at UVa, which alumni arrogantly refer to as "Mr. Jefferson's University"... they are a starchy, hide-bound bunch, and yeah, they have been known to boot athletes for offenses that other schools would never bat an eye at...

Think, pal, how many schools kick a guy out without ever having suspended him first??<<<<

I would say we can probably find guys suspended by Groh or other athletic coaches at UVA...Brooks got TERMINATED...thats pretty harsh

>>>The point I've been trying to make is that Al Groh has a very different kind of pressure put on him by the alumni, the boosters of that program... this move was probably forced on him... the evidence of that is the way he and the program are still trying to support him as he prepares for his NFL audition...<<<

certainly possible, though as I said above I think there have been players merely suspended

>>>Don't go down that innuendo road, David... you're clearly assumed that there's something else there, and I'm telling you that I remember players being tossed for less... <<<<

oh I definitely believe there is more to it...like I have said the whole time I really doubt they'd kick him out of school completely w/o trying any other disciplinary action first for simply hitting the bong a few times...either he has a SERIOUS problem with pot, or there is mroe going on...I've said that the whole time

>>>And I have a strong distaste for trashing anybody based strictly on innuendo... if you've got something to back up your beliefs, bring them on... but you don't have anything, do you?? <<<

I'm not bashing the guy...I just think a kid who has been kciked out of school for pot and who knows what else, played poorly last season and has a weight problem isnt worth wasting a draft pick on

>>>Last summer, I was one of the most vocal critics of Maurice Clarett, I called him a punk... but when I made that statement, I had researched his history pretty thoroughly... I could discourse at length about his assorted transgressions... before you go rippin' on Brooks, you really ought to do your homework too... if you did, I have a hunch you wouldn't be so hard on the guy... <<<<

I did some homework...you havent done anything to support any other argument otherwise...he got KICKED OUT with no other disciplinary action first...he either has a serious drug problem or there are other issues tagged on to it...either way, he is bad news

If you say you don't want a guy with a drug history on the team because you'll constantly be waiting for him to flunk another drug test, I can understand that... if you say you don't want the Cowboys taking a flyer on him because you worry that he won't do what's necessary to stay in playing shape, I can even understand that a little (though I personally think the only reason he got out of shape was his injuries)...

But I'm sorry, the hateful rhetoric you've aimed his way is just over the top, and I see no validity at all in the arguments you've forwarded against him...

what you said above is what I have been saying the whole time...he is a trouble maker...he got kicked out of school for drugs and who knows what else...he is and has been fat and out of shape...he just isnt worth the risk IMO

David

 

[silverbear]

If he would have returned healthy next year and had an outstanding year at Viriginia he would have been a 1st round draft pick, but instead he's going to be a 4th or 5th round supplemental pick.

Bet some team will give up their 3rd rounder for him (if not earlier)...

I don't could care less about people smoking weed in their free time, but when you literally piss away millions of dollars because you can't put the bong down there's usually a problem there. People want to equate this to their college days, but its simply not the same. The consequences are so much greater, and if he doesn't have the basic common sense or self control to refrain in the past with so much on the line I don't see why he would start now.

And what if what his people said at the time is true, and he just ingested some smoke second-hand at a party?? First time I ever got high, I didn't even realize it happened to me (I was at a concert, the lights went down and the blazin' started, soon there was a haze over the hall)...

Secondly, players don't get smaller as they get older they only get bigger.

That's a generalization that isn't always true... just ask Darrell Green, I'll bet he STILL weighs what he did coming out of college...

If he has to bust his butt to get down to 270 at 21,

Prior to getting hurt, he never had a problem with his conditioning... lots of players struggle with their weight when they get hurt, and can't work out...

then he'll be 285 by the time he's 24. He'll be 300 lbs. at 26-27.

Maybe, maybe not... but if that does happen, I'd have to think he'd be an intriguing 3-4 DE... he'd probably still be able to run a 4.7 40 or better...

He just didn't look nearly as explosive last year as he has in the past.

What part of "he was never healthy at any point last year" don't you understand??

He's only going to get bigger, slower and more cumbersome from here on out. It happens sometimes.

And sometimes it doesn't... bottom line, you have to judge the player by how he played when he was healthy...

 

[TNCowboy]

When you Google it, most items said he was dismissed for "repeated violations of team policy", but apparently UVA never officially released any details. Great Blue North has a blurb in a story that he was being watched closely before the 2005 season to determine whether or not he would stay on the straight and narrow. So apparently, discipline has been a problem with this guy before last year.

Guys who get in trouble like this usually wind up in trouble again. I'd pass, but I'll trust Parcells' judgement, especially given his relationship with Groh.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Did ... did ... did you just use the "it was just second hand smoke" defense? Isn't that the defense EVERYONE who fails a pee test uses? Are you his agent?

In June 2003, Brooks was charged with misdemeanor marijuana possession. He received six months probation, and the charge was later dropped. Groh said in August '03 that he handled the matter internally, refusing to elaborate.

In August '04, Brooks missed two practices to deal with "personal issues," as Groh called them. Brooks spent the '04 preseason and the first game that season as a backup to Rich Bedesem, a less talented player, for reasons Groh refused to disclose. One former U.Va. defensive starter said Brooks always seemed to be dealing with a personal issue, but Groh kept the issues private.

Late in February '05, Brooks felt discomfort in his right knee. The source of his discomfort was a cyst behind his knee. The cyst was surgically removed last March. He missed last season's first three games while recovering. In his first game back, he sprained his left ankle and missed the next game. After returning for five games, he missed the regular-season finale and the Music City Bowl because of a sore back.

When Groh announced Brooks' dismissal, he cited "focus, commitment and dependability" as things vital to building a team, indicating that the dismissed players - the others were safety Tony Franklin and defensive end Vince Redd - lacked those qualities.

Asked specifically about Brooks, Groh said: "It's a partnership with what you do with every player. ... When it doesn't turn out the way you want with any particular player, it's a little bit disappointing."

Said the NFL source: "The NFL front-office personnel is gonna ask themselves, 'If he can't comply with a stringent, professional, rigorous schedule that Al Groh has for his team, then how do we expect him to comply with our rules that we have at this level?' "

Brooks raises a red flag because he couldn't fulfill his potential in a linebacker-friendly system, the source said. Brooks' physical condition also is an issue. He played just six games last season and participated in just three weeks of U.Va.'s offseason workouts, according to a current player. "So he can't be in shape," the source said.

This was before his incidents that led to his dismissal this winter. Rumors are that he's failed a drug test in January that led to the original rumors that he was going to be dismissed. He had a heart to heart talk with Groh, and Groh let him back on the team. Then he failed another pee test in March which led to him being kicked off the team for good. Al Groh is everybit as bad of a linebackerophile as Parcells is. He wouldn't let his star player, at his most beloved position, walk unless things were really beyond the pont of hope.


What is it that Parcells said about the type of players he hates when he released Derek Ross ... he hates the type of players where "its always something" that keeps them from performing. Today its a failed drug test. Next week its a personal issue. The next week after that its a weight issue. The next day its a nagging injury. Ahmad proved to be the quintessential "Its always something" player at Viriginia.