Norm talks Cowboy's WR concerns - 6/30/08

[Stash]

Romo = undrafted

I'd hate to have to try to make a living doing it.

 

[Stash]

At some point a player becomes judged at what he does in the NFL and not what round they were drafted. Crayton has reached that point. He should no longer just be looked at as a 7th rounder. He has played well for two straight seasons. He is what he is, a very good #3 WR who has shown to be okay in the #2 role.

Hurd, Austin and Stanback have not reached that point.

Hence my 'questions'.......

 

[joseephuss]

Hence my 'questions'.......

Questions are easy to ask, but answers are difficult to discover. We all know the questions the Cowboys have at the wide receiver position. Finding the correct answers will not be an easy task. And you know my stance that I do not believe that Matt Jones is the answer. That doesn't mean I believe Hurd, Austin or Stanback are the answers, either. I just think the receiving corp is what it is this year. Dallas will have to make due or pull of a miracle trade for Roy Williams or Anquan Boldin.

 

[Stash]

Questions are easy to ask, but answers are difficult to discover. We all know the questions the Cowboys have at the wide receiver position. Finding the correct answers will not be an easy task. And you know my stance that I do not believe that Matt Jones is the answer. That doesn't mean I believe Hurd, Austin or Stanback are the answers, either. I just think the receiving corp is what it is this year. Dallas will have to make due or pull of a miracle trade for Roy Williams or Anquan Boldin.

I just hope it doesn't ruin a potential Super Bowl season.

 

[leeblair]

At some point a player becomes judged at what he does in the NFL and not what round they were drafted. Crayton has reached that point. He should no longer just be looked at as a 7th rounder. He has played well for two straight seasons. He is what he is, a very good #3 WR who has shown to be okay in the #2 role.

Hurd, Austin and Stanback have not reached that point.

What a player accomplishes in the NFL- or doesn't accomplish, for that matter- is more than not dependent upon the team he plays for, and the coaching staff of that team; as well as their scheme of doing things which may or may not work with his skills set completely.

Sure, there are stand out players; but if a standout goes to a team that is not managed correctly, and not coached good, that player is often labeled a 'bust'.

If Troy Aikman had entered the NFL as the number one pick of the Detroit Lions, he would probably have ended up being labeled a bust- even though he might have played well.

It's not always about a player's natural talent. It has to do with being able to coach to the strengths of the players you have.

 

[Stash]

What a player accomplishes in the NFL- or doesn't accomplish, for that matter- is more than not dependent upon the team he plays for, and the coaching staff of that team; as well as their scheme of doing things which may or may not work with his skills set completely.

Sure, there are stand out players; but if a standout goes to a team that is not managed correctly, and not coached good, that player is often labeled a 'bust'.

If Troy Aikman had entered the NFL as the number one pick of the Detroit Lions, he would probably have ended up being labeled a bust- even though he might have played well.

It's not always about a player's natural talent. It has to do with being able to coach to the strengths of the players you have.

Well said.

That's something I fully agree with and it's a point I've been trying (mostly in vain!) to make.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I'm not suggesting that you need a 1st rounder at every position. But some sort of draft pick investment isn't too much to ask, is it?

Where would this team be right now if it wasn't able to capitalize on receivers in bad situations on other teams?

Keyshawn, Glenn, and Owens were all available because they had 'issues' surrounding them.

How long can this team depend on that?

Yeah, that is my real issue. Everyone was so up in arms over how bad our CBs were when we had scrubs back there, but there is so much confidence in our scrub WRs. True, those WRs haven't been given a huge opportunity yet.....but there might also be a pretty good reason why they haven't been given that opportunity.

Instead of every LB and TE we can find, a WR would have been nice. But one thing is actually true though, with the high bust rate for drafted WRs, sometimes it is actually better to bring in a known quanitity at this position. Problem is it is very hard to get them without various issues attached to them.

Its actually a decent policy to go after known players at WR, but since it hasn't worked out for us so far, I just hope that policy doesn't come back to bite us in the butt.

 

[dbair1967]

I just hope it doesn't ruin a potential Super Bowl season.

If losing a starting WR is all that keeps us from winning a super bowl, we were never a super bowl calibar team to begin with.

He is obviously very important to the team, but I have alot of faith that the defense and running game are both going to be considerably better, and our special teams should make quite an impact as well.

David

 

[dbair1967]

If Troy Aikman had entered the NFL as the number one pick of the Detroit Lions, he would probably have ended up being labeled a bust- even though he might have played well.

There are some players this would apply to, but I dont agree that it would have applied to Aikman. His talent and work ethic were more than enough that he would have succeeded anywhere. He might not have won 3 championships, but he'd have still been a pro bowl QB

David

 

[Stash]

If losing a starting WR is all that keeps us from winning a super bowl, we were never a super bowl calibar team to begin with.

In my opinion, Owens isn't just a 'starting receiver'.

Few teams could survive losing a Top 5 receiver. As good as New England was, I doubt they would have made the Super Bowl without Randy Moss. Even if they had, they had guys like Welker and Stallworth, a better twosome than Crayton and Hurd.

He is obviously very important to the team, but I have alot of faith that the defense and running game are both going to be considerably better, and our special teams should make quite an impact as well.

David

I notice that you didn't mention coverage in your assessment of the special teams. Good move.

I fully agree that the defense and running game should be improved, but unless they're dominant, it's tough to overcome a mediocre passing game.

 

[Doomsday101]

In my opinion, Owens isn't just a 'starting receiver'.

Few teams could survive losing a Top 5 receiver. As good as New England was, I doubt they would have made the Super Bowl without Randy Moss. Even if they had, they had guys like Welker and Stallworth, a better twosome than Crayton and Hurd.



I notice that you didn't mention coverage in your assessment of the special teams. Good move.

I fully agree that the defense and running game should be improved, but unless they're dominant, it's tough to overcome a mediocre passing game.

They won SB with WR less than Moss on the team. In 06 they were 12 in the NFL in passing. I agree losing Owen would make Dallas less explosive but I do think if this running game is able to show big improvement that we will be in better shape to overcome an injury to a player like Owens than we were last year.

 

[Stash]

They won SB with WR less than Moss on the team. In 06 they were 12 in the NFL in passing. I agree losing Owen would make Dallas less explosive but I do think if this running game is able to show big improvement that we will be in better shape to overcome an injury to a player like Owens than we were last year.

Most definitely.

I think David brought up a good point.

Both the running game and more importantly, the defense should be significantly improved. Given the investment involved, I thought the defense should have been better last year. With what they've managed to add this offseason, coupled with a year of experience running the Phillips "34", I'm expecting a Top 5 defense.

 

[Doomsday101]

Most definitely.

I think David brought up a good point.

Both the running game and more importantly, the defense should be significantly improved. Given the investment involved, I thought the defense should have been better last year. With what they've managed to add this offseason, coupled with a year of experience running the Phillips "34", I'm expecting a Top 5 defense.

I agree. I would not be suprised to see Romo numbers not be as big this season if this running attack can come alive. Face it Romo was put in a lot of bad situations last year having to deal with some big 3rd and longs to keep drives alive. I think this offense could be better by being more balanced than we were last year.

 

[dogunwo]

Testing with TO on the field is like having a crutch - you will always look better than you really are with him on the field.

This statement is actually pretty ridiculous because you can say that about any premier player on any team and it will be true.

"If you take LT off the field, the Chargers aren't as good as they seem"

"If you take Marvin Harrison off the field.........................."

"If you take Peyton Manning off the field........................."



I mean, of course we are not as good.

 

[jterrell]

I think the only thing wrong with our wide recieving corps is that they don't utilize Sam Hurd enough;

And, that they don't utilize Miles Austin enough.

Miles Austin can stretch the field quick. Sure, he's dropped some, but so has
T.O.

I think Hurd is our 2nd, and Miles is our 3rd.


And, I think our problems with the run game last year were self-inflicted due to the controversy over running backs- and it was stupid. It caused a division amongst the team, and fans, and it became personal with too many people.

I love the acquisition of Felix Jones simply because he won't have the shadow of a controversy hanging over his head, and the team won't be wondering who's going to be the 'guy' when it comes to the run game.

It will become clear after about 6-8 games.

We had two good backs. No need for a controversy.

Nothing will become clear til we win a playoff game. That is what happens when you tear through the season 13-3 and lose the first playoff game you face.

Expectations here are such that we can enjoy a regular season but we will attach zero importance to it.

And because it is win or bust goign with such young Wrs makes little sense. Especially ones, that ran bad routes, dropped balls and looked lost at times last season.

Not sure where everyone was last season but Glenn was out ALL YEAR, T.O. was injured in season... these guys did play, they were forced to, they just didn't do enough with their time on the field.

 

[Doomsday101]

Nothing will become clear til we win a playoff game. That is what happens when you tear through the season 13-3 and lose the first playoff game you face.

Expectations here are such that we can enjoy a regular season but we will attach zero importance to it.

And because it is win or bust goign with such young Wrs makes little sense. Especially ones, that ran bad routes, dropped balls and looked lost at times last season.

Not sure where everyone was last season but Glenn was out ALL YEAR, T.O. was injured in season... these guys did play, they were forced to, they just didn't do enough with their time on the field.

I guess I differ because I do put an importance to the reg season. I still would rather win the division and get a bye week so that we would have 2 playoff games instead of 3 to reach the goal. No doubt none of it is a given be in a division winner or wild card but odds are still better for the division winner than it is a wildcard.

 

[joseephuss]

I'd hate to have to try to make a living doing it.

You mean like trading a draft pick for a former QB converting to WR and hoping that he turns into a top notch receiver.

If Dallas had drafted a WR either this year or last year and then lost Ellis or Ware to injury there would be some people complaining that Dallas blew it by not drafting someone like Spencer to fill in. Same with the cornerback or running back position. Dallas had needs at a few positions and not just WR. Pick one spot and you are left with a void at another. It is a hard choice.

 

[Stash]

You mean like trading a draft pick for a former QB converting to WR and hoping that he turns into a top notch receiver.

Yeah, those 6th rounders really come back to bite ya, not like those throaway second rounders eh?

If Dallas had drafted a WR either this year or last year and then lost Ellis or Ware to injury there would be some people complaining that Dallas blew it by not drafting someone like Spencer to fill in. Same with the cornerback or running back position. Dallas had needs at a few positions and not just WR. Pick one spot and you are left with a void at another. It is a hard choice.

How about if they had drafted a receiver instead of say Rogers, Peterman, Fasano, or any number of busts they've managed to collect instead of even attempting to get a receiver?

 

[joseephuss]

Yeah, those 6th rounders really come back to bite ya, not like those throaway second rounders eh?



How about if they had drafted a receiver instead of say Rogers, Peterman, Fasano, or any number of busts they've managed to collect instead of even attempting to get a receiver?

Is a 6th rounder worth something or not? You say you would rather not gamble on a UDFA like Romo again. You then say that a 6th rounder is not worth much, but worth gambling with. Just seems contradictory.

Dallas needed to draft O-line in 2004 when they chose both Rogers and Peterman. They picked poorly, but at that time they already had a young, talented, early round WR on the roster in Antonio Bryant. Counting on him was a bad choice, but he is what you say you are looking for. They also had Terry Glenn who did not have a degenerative knee condition at the time and Keyshawn Johnson. They picked up Crayton in the 7th round and Terrence Copper. Seems to me that they did do exactly what you were talking about. They tried to address the WR position and unfortunately only Crayton worked out of those choices from that year.

I didn't like the Fasano pick in 2006. In that draft there were 5 receivers drafted after Fasano in the 3rd round that Dallas could have picked. Travis Wilson, Derek Hagan, Brandon Williams, Maurice Stoval and Willie Reid were all taken in the 3rd round. I don't see any of them solving Dallas wide receiver issues. Dallas would have been better off picking up someone at another position rather than drafting Fasano, but WR was not a good pick in that second round spot. It would have taken a trade and maybe they did try to trade up, but had no takers. You just never know.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

You could say that about a lot of teams if they lost thier stud wr.
I'm more concerned with a consistent running game than our passing game.
I felt there were times where we relied on our passing game to much last season.

With this team... if TO is out they will stack the box and our PASS BLOCKING LINE will not be successful at RUN BLOCKING. It wasnt success with TO in the lineup last year at RUN BLOCKING. There is no magic potion... until we run block effectively it doesnt matter too much who is running behind them.