Not sold on Spencer

[pgreptom]

Sometimes I wish the Madden games had never been released...

I'm not saying I agree with this guy...

At all, because I don't.

But I wish people would stop blaming Madden for members stupidity.

MOST people that play Madden play online - it's a very small percentage of people that play franchises. And no, in Madden, the 27th pick does not get you the 1st overall pick by trading a 2nd string TE. It usually takes your 1st, 2nd, and 3rd - and most of the time THAT doesn't work.

The whole 'This ain't Madden' is so annoying. I bet a fairly good amount of the posters' people attack with the "madden" thing don't even play Madden... hell, they probably don't have a gaming console.

 

[Dodger]

But I wish people would stop blaming Madden for members stupidity.

Why? Do you have stock in Electronic Arts?

I bet a fairly good amount of the posters' people attack with the "madden" thing don't even play Madden...

I've played Madden for years, not that it matters. If I want to use Madden to make a point, that's what I'm going to do.

 

[burmafrd]

Its like calling copies XEROX. Etc. Its the MENTALITY of Madden. Not the game itself.

 

[lqmac1]

Let me first say I like Spencer and think he's really good against the run. With that being said, the one thing that worries me is he's in a spot where he can go either all-pro or bust. I ask how many sacks did he have last year in which he just blew up the tackle and killed the QB? Im pretty sure the two he got in New Orleans were unblocked. The sack he got in the playoff game against Philly he was in coverage and when the running back didn't go out Mcnabb ran right to him. He didn't even rush on that play. This concerns me. Looking in years past he has had low sack totals and a injury concern. I would say sack-wise I wouldn't be ready to call him a sure thing. Again,don't get me wrong I do like Spencer and his Boilermaker celebration dance.

I would even consider trading him because he has a high value right now. If we could package him and the 27th for maybe the 1st pick Suh(it might cost Bennett too). Anyways, that's neither here nor there. What do you guys think? Look at all of his sacks in his career and espically this year, how many have not been unblocked? Opinions

my thoughts on your argument=:laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:

 

[Dodger]

Its like calling copies XEROX. Etc. Its the MENTALITY of Madden. Not the game itself.

Pretty much, which is why the analogy is used so often.

 

[Hook'em#11]

Haha,ok ignore that then. Just threw it out there.

I will just ignore all of this .

 

[masomenos]

That's very interesting.

It's by no means a perfect formula, but I think it makes some logical sense while also still passing the "eye-ball" test. With Ware ahead by such a large margin, followed by the reigning sack leader, I think it lends some credibility to the equation. To get a more accurate percentage, I guess total snaps should be multiplied by .45 or something, since some pass plays will see 3-4 OLBs dropping into coverage.

Spencer's high ranking, despite not having double digit sacks, comes from the number of times he hit the QB. He put the QB on the ground 26 times, not including sacks. As a comparison, Woodley and Harrison combined only had 28 hits on the QB and they ranked 3rd and 5th in the category.

 

[Oh_Canada]

We draft the guy with high hopes - he is now starting to produce and you want to get rid of him? Color me confused.

That makes two of us....don't get this thread.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Suh had two knee surgies during college, he will be a bust.

Im the only one on this board saying it so when it happens I own you all.

 

[dfense]

Let me first say I like Spencer and think he's really good against the run. With that being said, the one thing that worries me is he's in a spot where he can go either all-pro or bust. I ask how many sacks did he have last year in which he just blew up the tackle and killed the QB? Im pretty sure the two he got in New Orleans were unblocked. The sack he got in the playoff game against Philly he was in coverage and when the running back didn't go out Mcnabb ran right to him. He didn't even rush on that play. This concerns me. Looking in years past he has had low sack totals and a injury concern. I would say sack-wise I wouldn't be ready to call him a sure thing. Again,don't get me wrong I do like Spencer and his Boilermaker celebration dance.

I would even consider trading him because he has a high value right now. If we could package him and the 27th for maybe the 1st pick Suh(it might cost Bennett too). Anyways, that's neither here nor there. What do you guys think? Look at all of his sacks in his career and espically this year, how many have not been unblocked? Opinions

Trading away a 1st round pick player who's just recently had the "light come on" makes as much sense as making Ware a DT.

Not to mention the effect it would have on Ware after teams realize they can just chip him and not have to worry about the other side.

 

[masomenos]

Trading away a 1st round pick player who's just recently had the "light come on" makes as much sense as making Ware a DT.

Oh, I like that idea. Then we could finally move Ratliff to DE, where he so obviously belongs.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Oh, I like that idea. Then we could finally move Ratliff to DE, where he so obviously belongs.

sarcasm is good.

 

[Alexander]

I'll would be all giddy if we trade our first and Bennett for the 1st overall pick to take Suh.
Trade a first and a possible stud, for one of the most impressive DT prospects in years.

Suh is excellent but would not be nearly as much of an impact player in a 3-4 . In a four man line, he would have far more mobility and not nearly as much gap control.

Regardless, no team in that top three would move down to our slot, nor would we give up what would be necessary even if they did.

 

[adbutcher]

We draft the guy with high hopes - he is now starting to produce and you want to get rid of him? Color me confused.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

anyone that does NOT think Spencer is only going to get better does NOT know football. There were MANY times last year where Spencer was flat out BETTER than DeMarcus Ware. And if Ware is not careful...if Ware does not start doing something other than running up the field as fast as he can...if Ware does not start becoming MORE of a techincian, learn some moves and try to set blocker up.....Spencer will be as GOOD if not BETTER in the not to distant future.

And let me add the same sitiuatoin exists for between Newman and Jenkins. Jenkins is probably better than him right now...and if not will be next year.

Lastly, with all of the players I have mentioned...this is a GOOD thing. Because they are ALL good.

 

[DFWJC]

I've created a basic formula for judging a player's pass rush ability that goes like this...

(Sacks*3 + QB Hits*1.5 + Pressures) / (Total Snaps*.55)

The idea is that a sack is at least twice as impactful as a QB hit, which is slightly more impactful than a pressure. Multiply total snaps by .55 in order to get an approximation of how many pass plays the player was involved in. The total number is a percentage that shows how often a pass rusher is effective.

Example scores for 3-4 OLBS would be...

Ware - 21.9%
Dumerville - 19.1%
Woodley - 16.9%
Matthews - 16.1%
Spencer - 15.2%
Harrison - 14.7%
Porter - 11.0%

Spencer is a difference maker, there's no question about it.

Clever.
If you could somehow factor in double teams, you may have it nailed.
Good stuff.

 

[DallasEast]

Sometimes I wish the Madden games had never been released...

Since its inception, I have bought a copy of Madden for multiple gaming platforms every single year and loved it practically every season (well, maybe not so much the '99 edition, but that's another story). Even so, I find myself agreeing with you 100%.

 

[Aven8]

anyone that does NOT think Spencer is only going to get better does NOT know football. There were MANY times last year where Spencer was flat out BETTER than DeMarcus Ware. And if Ware is not careful...if Ware does not start doing something other than running up the field as fast as he can...if Ware does not start becoming MORE of a techincian, learn some moves and try to set blocker up.....Spencer will be as GOOD if not BETTER in the not to distant future.

And let me add the same sitiuatoin exists for between Newman and Jenkins. Jenkins is probably better than him right now...and if not will be next year.

Lastly, with all of the players I have mentioned...this is a GOOD thing. Because they are ALL good.[/quote]

 

[Gzus]

It's by no means a perfect formula, but I think it makes some logical sense while also still passing the "eye-ball" test. With Ware ahead by such a large margin, followed by the reigning sack leader, I think it lends some credibility to the equation. To get a more accurate percentage, I guess total snaps should be multiplied by .45 or something, since some pass plays will see 3-4 OLBs dropping into coverage.

Spencer's high ranking, despite not having double digit sacks, comes from the number of times he hit the QB. He put the QB on the ground 26 times, not including sacks. As a comparison, Woodley and Harrison combined only had 28 hits on the QB and they ranked 3rd and 5th in the category.

When you say some pass plays will see 3-4 OLBs dropping into coverage, I think you need to take into account the different styles of 3-4 defense. Wade's 3-4 is much more aggressive, probably the most aggressive 3-4 in the league. In our 3-4 I think you see our OLBs rushing much more than just 45-55% of the time. Either way I agree with the stats, that Spencer is one of the top 8-9 OLBs in the league.

I don't understand why people think we should try to find someone to play DT so that we can move Ratliff to DE..... The way the guy plays NT in our 3-4 is revolutionary to say the least. There is NO NT out there in a 3-4 that generates half the pass rush that Ratliff can while stopping the run as well. Ratliff is a anomaly at NT that confuses anyone who tries to equate him to a traditional NT. It's IMO idiotic to even consider moving a two-time Pro Bowl NT to DE.

 

[RS12]

OP- The trade scenario is reckless and there was likely little thought to it (this ain't Madden). First off Suh is a DT, we have a Pro-Bowl NT in Ratliff already, so you are just trying to draft and pay a guy a boat-load of cash for a backup. .

I amnot infavor of getting rid of Spencer. I saw what everybody else did from mid-season, a dominant player. However, no matter what team Suh goes to, he will not be a backup. That's totally laughable.