Now, onto the topic of Wade Phillips...

[hawklegion]

Why didn't you post the rankings in points scored and points allowed, Draegerman. After all, they're the stats that really matter.

But we know why... Because it shows how much the defense improved the last few years. And you can't have that.

Your military background does finally show why you think Gruden is the greatest and Wade sucks, though. It's all about appearances. Pretty superficial, really. Maybe we could hire ex-marine Jim Mora Sr as HC?

Until you look up his playoff record.

Gruden took the Raiders and the Bucs to the superbowl and won once. Wade has a 1-5 playoff record, nice that the D is better though and he won 13 games his first season I guess. I didn't even need to rely on my 9 years of military service, a BA from UT Austin or my Law Degree to see the difference between Gruden and Wade.
:nono2:



......and I do like you as a poster Lab.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Gruden took the Raiders and the Bucs to the superbowl and won once. Wade has a 1-5 playoff record, nice that the D is better though and he won 13 games his first season I guess. I didn't even need to rely on my 9 years of military service, a BA from UT Austin or my Law Degree to see the difference between Gruden and Wade.
:nono2:



......and I do like you as a poster Lab.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

What did Gruden do after that Bucs Superbowl win? Pretty much nothing.

Oh, he did go through 100 quarterbacks, lose to Brad Johnson in 2008, and lose to the Raiders at home the last week of the season to miss the playoffs.

I'm sure that would all play really well here.

But I it's all fine as long as you got to the Superbowl a decade ago.

 

[hawklegion]

What did Gruden do after that Bucs Superbowl win? Pretty much nothing.

Oh, he did go through 100 quarterbacks, lose to Brad Johnson in 2008, and lose to the Raiders at home the last week of the season to miss the playoffs.

I'm sure that would all play really well here.

But I it's all fine as long as you got to the Superbowl a decade ago.

More then Wade could do a decade ago. Wade just lost again and again in the early rounds.

-Edit, Should have said 1st round, not early rounds as Wade never went further then the first until this season.

 

[Draegerman]

If all this talent was just giftwrapped to him, then why did Parcells accomplish absolutely nothing with this talent while in Dallas? Every team has talent, getting the talent to translate on the football field is another story.

Me: "Alex, I'll take 'Losers' for a thousand."

Trebek: "This pro football coach, nicknamed for a fish, left this NFL team for what reason?"

Me: What is because Parcells quit on the Cowboys?

Trebek: "Correct!"

BTW, the talent ratio that sets apart good teams from bad teams is +/- ratio of only 10%.

Judging Wade by his accomplishments with the Bills just isn't fair, that franchise is a complete mess and hasn't won anything in the last 15 years. They don't seem to even want to win.

They sure did look like they wanted to beat Tennessee. Too bad they fell victim to that gosh-darned "Music City Miracle" play.

Wade has always been a good judge of talent and the results of his defensive schemes speak for themselves.

This paragraph was so hilarious that I was forced to cut it down into simple sentences to address each one seperately. Now, pray tell, how has Wade been a good judge of talent? And what were the results of those great defensive schemes that Wade used when we played Minny in the playoffs?

Let's not be fools and say this team was a Super Bowl caliber team over the last few years, our line has been questionable and until this year our secondary was suspect.

It was...and they should have won it in 2007! That was the best team Wade's ever had (along with his best chance) and he blew it!!!

Which line are you talking about? Offensive or defensive?

And the secondary is Wade's problem - I don't give a scrap about Campo.

We made great strides this past offseason, not only removing the riff raff but getting our players to play up to their potential. Starting Spencer and signing Sensabaugh, Igor, and Brooking were all Wade moves and improved our team.

I'll give you partial credit for most of this but T.O. was not "riff raff". Sure he was a problem in the locker room but that applied more to his 2nd season and not the 1st. What's a load of crap is that we had another pro-bowl caliber receiver on our roster and no one even noticed him until that abysmal failure, Roy E. Williams, went down for a portion of the season; allowing Austin a chance to shine.

You're right about the defensive moves Wade made but understand that it didn't make that much of a difference between 2007 & 2009. Check the stats.

We're infused with youth, Romo is playing at a Pro Bowl level, we have a young aggressive defense that stops the run and gets to the quarterback, we have a true #1 receiver in Miles, Jenkins is turning into a shutdown corner, and Felix just started showing what we all expected of him at the end of the season.

Perhaps, but that perspective plus $1000.00 dollars will get you to the Super Bowl next year (because you won't get there riding the coattails of the Cowboys). I'm at the point now that if you gave Wade pro-bowl caliber players at all the positions on this team, he would still find a way to lose.

We have a great building block to improve upon. We have a draft class and a half coming into training camp. We humiliated the Eagles and won a playoff game. We are the team to beat in the NFC East and beat the Super Bowl Champs in their house, when they were undefeated. There's a lot to be optimistic about this offseason, we just need to worry about keeping Romo upright. That will be the difference this season, in my opinion.

Why do I desperately want to declare that I'm from Missouri right now and not a Dallas native?

Oh I remember...it's because I want them to "SHOW ME!!!"

 

[Draegerman]

Why didn't you post the rankings in points scored and points allowed, Draegerman. After all, they're the stats that really matter.

I didn't feel like it. Drinking beer just seemed to be more important.

But, hey, if you feel froggy then jump. Nobody's preventing you from doing it.

But we know why... Because it shows how much the defense improved the last few years. And you can't have that.

You read me like a book. It's my horrible desire to conspire against the man who is a true defensive coordinator, while acting like a head coach.

Your military background does finally show why you think Gruden is the greatest and Wade sucks, though. It's all about appearances. Pretty superficial, really. Maybe we could hire ex-marine Jim Mora Sr as HC?

Until you look up his playoff record.

Can't deal with jarheads...they always find a way to cramp my style, but I'd happily take Mora Sr. as long as he gets to say those infamous words, "Playoffs?...Playoffs?". Besides, Wade's only one game up on him regarding their playoff records.

One more thing, as much as you overestimate Wade as our head coach, you do the same disservice by underestimating Gruden as well. You probably think I'm all about the "Rah, rah, rah!" type coach, but nothing could be further from the truth. Sure, I've always liked a coach with a bit of an animated personality, but I assure you that's not my priority.

For me, it's all about intelligence. That's what will make or break a head coach in the NFL.

And as far as I'm concerned, Gruden has a lot more of it than Wade.

The turning point for me was watching that NFL Films special they did on Gruden awhile back. I saw for the first time just how this man was able to process information. So I dug a little deeper on the internet and discovered that this cat was the real deal.

You (among others) here don't agree - and that's cool. There's simply too much riding on next year's team to win anyway. It's really too late at this stage to switch now if we hope to win next year. Let Wade carry that pressure around for a little while.

But just wait and see...and I'll be waiting here and drinking beer (sounds like a damn country song)

 

[Draegerman]

Ouch...check and checkmate, game over.

I bet you were one of those types who went to bed early that night, thinking Dewey beat Truman.


And look where that got you.

 

[Cowboy Brian]

Wade is one of the most underrated coaches in NFL history. No one respects him, everyone calls him **** and acts like he is Eric Mangini really makes me angry because he is our coach. Only one other defensive minded coach in the NFL can be spoken of in the same sentence as him. He has built up sub-par players and made them elite in Jenkins and Spencer. He has brought in people for less than their worth because of his expertise and all people do is question him. He is our coach, and anyone worth a **** should be dang proud of it.

 

[Draegerman]

Stats don't mean crap if the coach can't MOTIVATE the team to play when it really counts. Wade couldn't motivate this team in 2008 when we needed to win our last game to get in the playoffs. Heck we didn't even show up in that game. We played one good stretch this year and again this team was not MOTIVATED when we played the Vikings. Wade is a good DC, but he is a terrible motivator. We will never go anywhere with him as HC. Our season will end next year with a blowout to a team that is more MOTIVATED than us not more talented..:bang2: :bang2:

 

[CF74]

Thank you for posting this. If possible, I'd like to check out this website that you mentioned. Just pm me the link if you don't mind.

PM sent.

 

[Draegerman]

What did Gruden do after that Bucs Superbowl win? Pretty much nothing.

Oh, he did go through 100 quarterbacks, lose to Brad Johnson in 2008, and lose to the Raiders at home the last week of the season to miss the playoffs.

I'm sure that would all play really well here.

But I it's all fine as long as you got to the Superbowl a decade ago.

I understand your dislike for the guy but you have to understand where I'm coming from. Sure, Gruden has his faults and he's not perfect...but that would apply to every head coach in the NFL. Each one has their own strengths and weaknesses.

My point is that this team, our team, has the talent right now to win a Super bowl. And we've had this talent for the last 3 seasons and each time they've come up empty. Wade was handed a Golden Goose and he's inspired it to only crap rotten eggs.

Had Gruden taken controll of these reins when Parcells quit, I would've bet my paycheck, house, pink slip & last beer in the fridge that he would've done better.

But it's all speculation now, isn't it?

 

[CCBoy]

D-man...Attention to orders: All present, be aware, due to gallantry in service, and contributions above and beyond....


Wait, an old excuse for failures gets carried over with immediate success. The coaching staff STILL accomplished THREE consecutive seasons of winning. Two Division Championships, and they DON'T know how to coach?

You know I love you, brother...but maybe some are tired of being ignored at pointing out current circumstances as well as all the reasons for failure and change, when being confronted by insult and a decade long tag along excuse for ALL failures...the coaches. That is about as Monday Morning as it gets in fandom.

What, did I miss something and Dallas have a Bill Parcells run of regular season victories and talent levels. Dallas went to a high ground of All Pros FROM the Parcell era to a high ground of New All Pros under Wade Phillips, and now, the team HAS a good attitude. I must have missed the bad attitudes and mercenary play during Parcells as well...

 

[CCBoy]

I bet you were one of those types who went to bed early that night, thinking Dewey beat Truman.


And look where that got you.

There's a tad more recent evaluations as well as direction to the analysis process than 'opportunity' with disfunctional periods on floundering teams with Wade's past as well. When was the last time Buffalo dominated the can? How about Cleveland?

If you are going to use after operations analysis, use them....instead of a fractured fairy tale from a Bullwinkle episode, think?

 

[CCBoy]

I understand your dislike for the guy but you have to understand where I'm coming from. Sure, Gruden has his faults and he's not perfect...but that would apply to every head coach in the NFL. Each one has their own strengths and weaknesses.

My point is that this team, our team, has the talent right now to win a Super bowl. And we've had this talent for the last 3 seasons and each time they've come up empty. Wade was handed a Golden Goose and he's inspired it to only crap rotten eggs.

Had Gruden taken controll of these reins when Parcells quit, I would've bet my paycheck, house, pink slip & last beer in the fridge that he would've done better.

But it's all speculation now, isn't it?

Let's see....coulda, woulda. et al. Then do you think that TO would be here now? What about the recent addition of a boat load of youth into positions of playmaking. Dallas NOW, has a functional offensive line it did NOT under Parcells. Dallas NOW has a fully functional secondary, it did NOT under Parcells. Would Gruden have a future All Pro in Miles Austin? What about improving all the gained direction in the 3-4 defense. Would Gruden have had the gaspacios to have parted with Roy Williams, Chris Canty, Kevin Burnett, TO, and Greg Ellis during the same season, and resulted in a NFC East Champion team?

Gruden got a raw deal in 'two' places? If Wade can't have bad luck twice, does Gruden get a pass for getting fired twice? Oh, you say he has a Super Bowl? Well how many teams have repeated from the NFC just going INTO the Super Bowl game in the past nine seasons? Answer: 0. That means nine different teams getting a shot...for some reason.

 

[gmoney112]

I love when people belittle common sense to prove a point over an internet forum. I just hope when we do win a Super Bowl with this team that some of you can actually enjoy it. That is all.

PS. My buddy with with a bachelor's in Architectural Engineering from CU Boulder and a Master's in Engineering from Stanford while working on the Bay Bridge in San Francisco says Gruden is a newb.

 

[Draegerman]

CC, you (as well as many others here) know where I stand when it comes to Wade Phillips. I just don't like him as our head coach. As a person, I'm sure he's a great guy but the Cowboys need more than just a great guy. They need someone who's unafraid, readily able to discipline, motivate...and most importantly, the ability to lead.

With Wade I just don't see any of these qualities.

I gave him a pass in 2007, thought maybe it was just more bad luck, that was our motus operandi for the last ten years. Then, the 2008 Training Camp was being covered by that stupid, utterly ridiculous show, "Hard Knocks". I was livid! We went down that path before with Campo and it was all bad! I knew that my concerns were more than justified when I got to see Wade interact with players and coaching staff. I saw how Wade carried himself like some ol' portly grandpa, handholding the ones that were being let go, the way he issued fines to the players for being late, and that gosh darned way of his...trying to tell the players what to do with that dreadful, "Oh, c'mon guys!" whiny disposition. It's no wonder we floundered that season. And for some freakish reason, Wade somehow managed to keep his job.

Then the 2009 season began, and the worst of my nightmares were soon realized - Wade did just enough to not only keep his job but to get that 2 yr extension as well. I guess it must have been because he promised all of us that he was going to be more assertive for the 2009 season.

:bang2: :bang2:

I tried searching for some type of proof that he was a halfway decent head coach, but the best thing I could find on youtube was this:

[youtube]SATuG9OApgA[/youtube]

Marcus Spears compares Wade to Bill and tells the audience that with Bill, if you made a mistake, he wouldn't let you forget about it. Wade would let it go after it was addressed. Well, whoopie-freakin'-doo! I think what Spears conveniently forgets is that he was a rookie trying to learn a new system under Parcells, he basically needed Bill jumping down his throat. Essentially this boils down to Phillips being the picture-perfect definition of a "players coach", and that's precisely what the players prefer. But is it going to work? Well, he's had three chances so far and has struck out everytime. Will his 4th chance finally lead him and our team to the promise land?

My Magic 8-ball says, "outlook grim".



Oh and for the record, I want everyone here to know that even though I hated Phillips after the pathetic end of the 2008 season, I did not say one bad thing about him. It was in November of 2009 when I posted my first anti-Wade post.

 

[Draegerman]

There's a tad more recent evaluations as well as direction to the analysis process than 'opportunity' with disfunctional periods on floundering teams with Wade's past as well. When was the last time Buffalo dominated the can? How about Cleveland?

If you are going to use after operations analysis, use them....instead of a fractured fairy tale from a Bullwinkle episode, think?

:laugh2: CC, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Draegerman]

Let's see....coulda, woulda. et al. Then do you think that TO would be here now? What about the recent addition of a boat load of youth into positions of playmaking. Dallas NOW, has a functional offensive line it did NOT under Parcells. Dallas NOW has a fully functional secondary, it did NOT under Parcells. Would Gruden have a future All Pro in Miles Austin? What about improving all the gained direction in the 3-4 defense. Would Gruden have had the gaspacios to have parted with Roy Williams, Chris Canty, Kevin Burnett, TO, and Greg Ellis during the same season, and resulted in a NFC East Champion team?

Gruden got a raw deal in 'two' places? If Wade can't have bad luck twice, does Gruden get a pass for getting fired twice? Oh, you say he has a Super Bowl? Well how many teams have repeated from the NFC just going INTO the Super Bowl game in the past nine seasons? Answer: 0. That means nine different teams getting a shot...for some reason.

Point of order. I did not bring Gruden into this mix, that would be chocolate lab's doing. Yes, I think he's our best option as head coach and I still stand by this. But my biggest fears were quickly realized when Jerry gave Wade that extension. I knew that getting Gruden now as our head coach was nothing more than a pipe dream.

 

[CCBoy]

:laugh2: CC, what the hell are you talking about?

Buddy, you know I love you, even if you have issues about something that deals with chain of command type issues...enough said there.

There is a good set of standards at work in Dallas, and the team has worked away the brutality in Parcells' attitudes, reconciled and swung towards release, and now have resumed a kinder but stricter form that includes high degrees of execution. Don't worry about Wade's facial no commital in interview...he shows anger and emotion to his players at select times. Don't worry, he DOES have a war face that is reserved for sporting times of need. It underlies his personality none the less. He rubbed elbows with all the angry type defensive coaches as he came up...he is WELL grounded as such in the brutality and nose to the grind aspects. His defense is still heading towards a dominant type Phillips' defense. As is the Dallas offense....now, on the draft, you probably would enjoy the article in Blogging the Boys, on standards for Cowboy selections. There is a very defineable set of criteria and player description towards which this set of Scout Personnel and coaches are working towards. There is a very strong plan in place...and it's quickly gaining momentum.

Don't get confused in a fan's tendency to view geared to an in the rock projection of your own. The team lives in an environment that includes a strong year by year makeup of personnel. Extensions beyond which have to be earned by conduct on the field. Roy Williams IS in that zone of extreme evaluation this upcoming season. His career is on the line...but that is a specific case.

 

[Draegerman]

Buddy, you know I love you, even if you have issues about something that deals with chain of command type issues...enough said there.

There is a good set of standards at work in Dallas, and the team has worked away the brutality in Parcells' attitudes, reconciled and swung towards release, and now have resumed a kinder but stricter form that includes high degrees of execution. Don't worry about Wade's facial no commital in interview...he shows anger and emotion to his players at select times. Don't worry, he DOES have a war face that is reserved for sporting times of need. It underlies his personality none the less. He rubbed elbows with all the angry type defensive coaches as he came up...he is WELL grounded as such in the brutality and nose to the grind aspects. His defense is still heading towards a dominant type Phillips' defense. As is the Dallas offense....now, on the draft, you probably would enjoy the article in Blogging the Boys, on standards for Cowboy selections. There is a very defineable set of criteria and player description towards which this set of Scout Personnel and coaches are working towards. There is a very strong plan in place...and it's quickly gaining momentum.

Don't get confused in a fan's tendency to view geared to an in the rock projection of your own. The team lives in an environment that includes a strong year by year makeup of personnel. Extensions beyond which have to be earned by conduct on the field. Roy Williams IS in that zone of extreme evaluation this upcoming season. His career is on the line...but that is a specific case.

CC, I think we should just agree to disagree on this because there's no way I can change your mind on the Wade topic and you sure as hell can't change mine. But I am impressed with the way you support him and I hope/pray to the football gods that you're right...because I love this team - I really do. I bleed the same silver and blue just like every other fan that posts here.

The thing for me is that I don't need a "rah..rah...rah" type of coach. Coach Landry was my all-time favorite and he never exhibited emotions like that, he didn't need to. His prescence commanded respect - and his players happily gave it and loved him for it. His thumbprint was on every facet of this team and he was a freakin' football genius. I've said many times before that if it weren't for a bad set of circumstances that played out against the Cowboys, that trophy would be called "The Landry". You screwed up around him and Coach Tom would shoot you his patented "look" and your face would melt off.

Anyway, I just don't see those type of qualities in Wade.

And God I hope I'm wrong...