Off season thoughts - Trade/FA/Draft

[Avenging Hayseed]

If he's not the best wideout on his team, the only way his stats would be misleading is they would be lower than they should with the other WR bogarting catches and TDs that usually go to the #1 guy.

All I know is that if you look at the stats Samardzija was the better W.R. He beat Stovall in every way imaginable. He really did. More big plays too. More of the go to guy than Stovall. Hey, dont shoot me im just the messenger......

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

Samardzija had 16 touchdowns last year alone. That SHOULD say something....LOL I mean, the object IS to score touchdowns right????

 

[DLCassidy]

If he's not the best wideout on his team, the only way his stats would be misleading is they would be lower than they should with the other WR bogarting catches and TDs that usually go to the #1 guy.

That's not really true. If the #1 guy gets extra attention from the D, it leaves the #2 to get a lot of extra opportunities. Think Harrison/Wayne. Are Wayne's stats misleading? Could be.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

That's not really true. If the #1 guy gets extra attention from the D, it leaves the #2 to get a lot of extra opportunities. Think Harrison/Wayne. Are Wayne's stats misleading? Could be.

....BINGO! We have a winner...

 

[StanleySpadowski]

That's not really true. If the #1 guy gets extra attention from the D, it leaves the #2 to get a lot of extra opportunities. Think Harrison/Wayne. Are Wayne's stats misleading? Could be.

Huge difference between the NFL and NCAA. When's the last time you saw an NCAA team gameplan for one WR? 95% of them don't have the players to play that matchup game like the pros do and none of the 5% were on ND's schedule this year. Do you really think that Navy could stop a #1 WR even if that was the only thing they cared about?

 

[StanleySpadowski]

All I know is that if you look at the stats Samardzija was the better W.R. He beat Stovall in every way imaginable. He really did. More big plays too. More of the go to guy than Stovall. Hey, dont shoot me im just the messenger......

If you look at the "stats" you'll end up burnt every time. Try watching them play instead.

 

[DLCassidy]

Huge difference between the NFL and NCAA. When's the last time you saw an NCAA team gameplan for one WR? 95% of them don't have the players to play that matchup game like the pros do and none of the 5% were on ND's schedule this year. Do you really think that Navy could stop a #1 WR even if that was the only thing they cared about?

You don't have to necessarily double the guy. How about put your best CB on their best WR? Is that too complicated for college?

 

[StanleySpadowski]

....BINGO! We have a winner...

You're using circular reasoning. If your argument that another WR inflated Stovall's numbers held any weight, which it doesn't, then wouldn't the logical extension of that argument be that Stovall was the #1 receiver and inflated Smar's?

 

[StanleySpadowski]

You don't have to necessarily double the guy. How about put your best CB on their best WR? Is that too complicated for college?

No, if teams had a "best" CB. Most don't. Look at ND's schedule. I'm not sure there was one CB that'll be drafted this year on any of their opponents rosters. ** Edit ** USC has two corners that are listed in some sites top 50 so they may be drafted.

 

[DLCassidy]

No, if teams had a "best" CB. Most don't. Look at ND's schedule. I'm not sure there was one CB that'll be drafted this year on any of their opponents rosters.

LOL. You don't need to be drafted to be the best CB on your team. EVERY team has a best.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

If you look at the "stats" you'll end up burnt every time. Try watching them play instead.

I have watched them play many times. Samardzija IS the BETTER W.R. In just about every way you can be better. Speed, hands, catches, yards after catch, TOUCHDOWNS, big play ability, go to guy. I dunno what to tell ya anymore. Iv'e givin you just about EVERY fact there is to back up my case. WHAT facts have you given? I sure dont see any. I dont think youv'e seen too many Notre Dame games of late to be honest. If you did you would KNOW what im talking about. Argument over, your simply never gonna get it. Facts or no facts it just doesnt seem to matter to you....

 

[StanleySpadowski]

LOL. You don't need to be drafted to be the best CB on your team. EVERY team has a best.

Well, it may be semantics but I could agree on "least crappy".


It's just that too many people confuse what happens in the NFL and the type of schemes that are implemented for players who it's a full time job and the type of thing they do in college where they gets kids for a couple of hours a day.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

One last shot...LOL Lets look at a different position for comparisons sake. Do you think maybe a Guy like Dwight Freeney can make an impact on the Defensive tackle playing next to him? As in the amount of sacks that D.T picks up. Or do you think Freeney can also have an impact on the amount of sacks the D.E playing opposite him has??? I sure DO. In fact just about everyone DOES....LOL

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I have watched them play many times. Samardzija IS the BETTER W.R. In just about every way you can be better. Speed, hands, catches, yards after catch, TOUCHDOWNS, big play ability, go to guy. I dunno what to tell ya anymore. Iv'e givin you just about EVERY fact there is to back up my case. WHAT facts have you given? I sure dont see any. I dont think youv'e seen too many Notre Dame games of late to be honest. If you did you would KNOW what im talking about. Argument over, your simply never gonna get it. Facts or no facts it just doesnt seem to matter to you....

Yea, I never make the trip to South Bend to watch games in person.


I've seen every game that either WRs ever played in college so "many times" doesn't really impress me. Samarzdzija may be better than Stovall, maybe not, but since he's not entering this draft, Stovall may be the best WR in this class. Your basic logic is sorely lacking using Smarz' as a negative about Stovall as you did in your original post.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

One last shot...LOL Lets look at a different position for comparisons sake. Do you think maybe a Guy like Dwight Freeney can make an impact on the Defensive tackle playing next to him? As in the amount of sacks that D.T picks up. Or do you think Freeney can also have an impact on the amount of sacks the D.E playing opposite him has??? I sure DO. In fact just about everyone DOES....LOL

DT and DE aren't WRs. You could make an intelligent argument that say QB play has an effect on WR numbers but you couldn't make that argument that another WR boost a WR's numbers on the collegiate level.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

Not trying to be Rotten but gotta say..............Just about ANYONE reading this KNOWS your wrong. Really.

 

[Avenging Hayseed]

Heres the Clincher. If Mo Stovall is drafted in the 1st round I'll eat my words in here big time. He wont be. NO WAY he will be drafted the highest out of the WR's coming out. Therefore that means the GM's of the NFL agree with me....THAT HE IS NOT the best W.R in this draft. NO WAY...NO HOW....Like I said earlier. Facts prove he wasnt even the best WR on his own team.

 

[Dayton Cowboy]

Well then who is better?

I've personally never been sold on Holmes. I've seen some mediocre corners shut him down and he probably isn't the best receiver on his own team either.

Are you saying that Ginn was the better receiver on the buckeyes the past two seasons? I'll grant you that Ginn is a dynamic player and may develop into his own at wr, but he was mostly just a speed guy. You talked about Holmes getting shut down by mediocre corners, Ginn was even more so. He pretty much just had the fly, quick screen and of course the reverse. But his routes were terrible and didn't do anything to help out his QB. Ginn had a lot of time to work on things between the michigan game and bowl game against the irish. I also believe with more time to build and learn the finer points of the WR position he will have a high ceiling than Holmes has had

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Heres the Clincher. If Mo Stovall is drafted in the 1st round I'll eat my words in here big time. He wont be. NO WAY he will be drafted the highest out of the WR's coming out. Therefore that means the GM's of the NFL agree with me....THAT HE IS NOT the best W.R in this draft. NO WAY...NO HOW....Like I said earlier. Facts prove he wasnt even the best WR on his own team.

Where a player's drafted has little bearing on whether or not they're the best player at their position. As a matter of fact, more often or not the first player drafted at a particular position doesn't have the best NFL career.

Every year I do two draft boards. One where I think players will be drafted and one how I think they'll be as pros.

As an example, I think White is the best pro RB in the draft followed closely by Williams then Bush but I know that Bush is going to be the first drafted of the three.

Don't believe me when I say that Stovall might be the best pro WR in this class (notice I've never said first drafted or drafted high), it really doesn't bother me, but remember this in a few years when you look back.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

Are you saying that Ginn was the better receiver on the buckeyes the past two seasons? I'll grant you that Ginn is a dynamic player and may develop into his own at wr, but he was mostly just a speed guy. You talked about Holmes getting shut down by mediocre corners, Ginn was even more so. He pretty much just had the fly, quick screen and of course the reverse. But his routes were terrible and didn't do anything to help out his QB. Ginn had a lot of time to work on things between the michigan game and bowl game against the irish.

I maybe shouldn't have implied that Ginn was better, but I do think that teams feared Ginn more than they did Holmes. I do think that Ginn didn't progress from his freshman year as much as most OSU fans had hoped.