Offense discussion

[CowboyFrog]

The Giants DB's are weak and yet there was again no seperation on 90% of the completions..the scheme is dated and trash.

 

[75boyz]

Go back to the beginning of last season for a moment if you will.

The offense was inconsistent and struggled until Lamb exploded and demanded the ball. It seemed like from that point on the offense figured out some things, including using motion and the offense gained more explosiveness.

Fast forward to now. Why does it seem like our WRs seem to constantly run hooks or curls with very little variation. No motion, just dull play calling.

It seems to me we ignored everything we learned offensively from last season and started at ground zero again.

Side note, kudos to Mazi and Overshown. Much better performance

Yep,
You're spot on. Kellen Moore used to receive the punchline criticisms here about how "everybody runs a curl/hook" route tree. lol

I saw the exact thing you mentioned here with the use of Lamb after the early season sit down with McFraud and like you said, it seemed after that game, we used lots of pre snap motion and even...
Wait for it...
I believe even a rub route or 2 to scheme guys open along with some bunch formations.

Like you, I am not sure where that part of the offense has disappeared to either.

Looks like a regression in scheme/playcalling.

And my gosh, don't even get me started on the run game, lol.

jmo

 

[DuncanIso]

The Giants DB's are weak and yet there was again no seperation on 90% of the completions..the scheme is dated and trash.

Yes.

BrianS should be calling the plays.

worked at SeaHawks.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Yes.

BrianS should be calling the plays.

worked at SeaHawks.

and why is it when players actually do make plays you dont see them for weeks after..where the hell is Turpin, we dont like a player that scores on almost every 6th touch?

 

[Shane612]

This is my biggest gripe. Our WRs currently are amongst the worst in separation created, but when they are running constant hooks and curls with ZERO motion, how much separation can you be expected to gain?

Remeber…. this is Dak friendly offense.

 

[Shane612]

There are reasons why. We do the things that our QB can do well. It does a pretty good job getting us through the season. It sends us packing at the end of the year. It is no secret.

Exactly.

 

[Shane612]

I think the biggest problem is the coaches believe Dak can only throw certain routes well. The short button hooks; the short drag; the little wheel route; and the “find the soft spot” at about 5-8 yards.
.
Anything further than 40 bomb is a no go.
Deep outs and deep ins are iffy, as are slants.
It takes legendary QBs like Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana and Aikman to make all those throws.

 

[Coogiguy03]

There are reasons why. We do the things that our QB can do well. It does a pretty good job getting us through the season. It sends us packing at the end of the year. It is no secret.

Agreed

 

[khiladi]

The facts say there was a significant drop off in offensive production, right? Numbers are used for evaluation and measurement.
We just can’t go by what you or pappydog feels? Right?

Let’s focus on facts. And all Qb’s in the league have been failing by your winning criteria the last 2 years.

What in the world is this nonsense? You were asking about the facts that show they went ball management and conservative and they were provided. And they were 4-1 because of it.

 

[DogFace]

What in the world is this nonsense? You were asking about the facts that show they went ball management and conservative and they were provided. And they were 4-1 because of it.

So you’re saying the offensive drop off was because of game plan and not talent?

Ok man.

 

[starfan1]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Last year, we did no motion, couldn't get Ceedee the ball, and then people complained so much that they made big changes during the bye week. I may be misremembering, but I feel like we ended the season playing the vanilla offense as well.

Now, we've gone back to that pre-bye week offense for some reason. Mike and Schottenheimer just don't have the creativity for a modern offense. They rely on Dak to make plays from nothing.

McCarthy doesnt want them to get tired. This is big Macs version of load management we dont want them getting all wore out too soon. Im being sarcastic but i could have sworn he said something of that nature when asked

 

[TheSport78]

Here's the problem: The Cowboys are paying Dak Prescott like he's Aaron Rodgers in his prime. Mike McCarthy runs an offensive scheme not conducive to what Dak does well. Prescott is not Rodgers, but they are paying him and scheming him like he is. Dak Prescott needs to be in an offensive scheme like Jared Goff. More under center, solid running scheme, play action passing game, etc. The Cowboys have set up their $60 million dollar man to fail.

 

[khiladi]

So you’re saying the offensive drop off was because of game plan and not talent?

Ok man.

. It is you that made the claim it was the same offense. It was not me. You were proven wrong based on the stats, which you asked for.

 

[Rockport]

Go back to the beginning of last season for a moment if you will.

The offense was inconsistent and struggled until Lamb exploded and demanded the ball. It seemed like from that point on the offense figured out some things, including using motion and the offense gained more explosiveness.

Fast forward to now. Why does it seem like our WRs seem to constantly run hooks or curls with very little variation. No motion, just dull play calling.

It seems to me we ignored everything we learned offensively from last season and started at ground zero again.

Side note, kudos to Mazi and Overshown. Much better performance

Yeah, I guess MM is tanking huh?

 

[DogFace]

. It is you that made the claim it was the same offense. It was not me. You were proven wrong based on the stats, which you asked for.

Show me where I said it was the same offense. Maybe you’re mixing up posts because you aren’t making sense.

“Actually, it’s not the “same offense”. Dallas was intentionally playing conservative those games and Rush was more than able to put up points in the second half when they needed to move the ball downfield.” -khiladi post #17

That’s you dude. You said that. You’re all emotional about Dak and it’s confusing you. Calm down some.

Here’s my statement so you understand what I’m saying. Dak had far greater production than Cooper. That’s it.

Then you also tried to say Dak played low ranked defenses and I showed you where Mahomes and Burrow also played bottom of the league defenses twice as well. That’s what I said.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/offense-discussion.527848/
Post #17 by you. Not me.

 

[Smith22]

Yeah, I guess MM is tanking huh?

If that is what you took from my post, I got nothing for you.

 

[khiladi]

Show me where I said it was the same offense. Maybe you’re mixing up posts because you aren’t making sense.

“Actually, it’s not the “same offense”. Dallas was intentionally playing conservative those games and Rush was more than able to put up points in the second half when they needed to move the ball downfield.” -khiladi post #17

That’s you dude. You said that. You’re all emotional about Dak and it’s confusing you. Calm down some.

Here’s my statement so you understand what I’m saying. Dak had far greater production than Cooper. That’s it.

Then you also tried to say Dak played low ranked defenses and I showed you where Mahomes and Burrow also played bottom of the league defenses twice as well. That’s what I said.

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/offense-discussion.527848/
Post #17 by you. Not me.

Nah buddy, that’s now how it works. You said to the original poster to compare the stats between Dak and Rush.

I then said it’s not the SAME OFFENSE, meaning the stats would not be comparable. They intentionally played conservative with Rush.

Actually, it’s not the “same offense”. Dallas was intentionally playing conservative those games and Rush was more than able to put up points in the second half when they needed to move the ball downfield. And he was 5-1 with the same personnel and a noodle arm. Dak fanboys during his 4 game win stretch were sweating on this forum and they were saying as an excuse that Moore needs to run the “same offense” that he’s running with Rush, after Dak scrubbed against Tampa and they were proclaiming the season over

They also dumbed down the offense for Dak after he led the league in INTs in 10 games. They had him bail pocket early in his reads. That’s what the whole “Texas West Coast” hoopla was about and the plays were being called in early in the play count with Dallas trying to take advantage of personnel matchups. They were trying to give Dak a lot of time to make decisions, preferably early and to move through his options quickly if the defensive look wasn’t right.

As you can see there are two scenarios I made in my quote:

1. 2022 with Rush when they went conservative and was NOT THE SAME OFFENSE.

2. 2023 with Mike McCarthy took over play calling and implemented the “Texas West Coast”, dumbing down the offense by having Dak do certain things. All of this was motivated by his league-leading interceptions despite playing only 10 games.

You then denied it by saying:

What are the numbers. Compare the numbers. Not your opinion of something like they were playing conservative. Because how do you really define that and how do you know they don’t do that (if true) because he’s not that good and needs a more conservative approach?

And if they dumbed it down for Dak former that mean he could’ve had more production too? Just like In your Cooper scenario that you’ve created?

Your whole argument about offense is rooted in the “stats”. So I then I proceeded to provide the numbers and the STATS that showed the intentionally played conservative. They ran the ball more and when they needed to move the ball in games where they were down in the 4th, Rush had no problems MOVING THE BALL.

 

[Cmac]

How about our offense?......in all honesty, it's been offensive.

 

[khiladi]

Show me where I said it was the same offense. Maybe you’re mixing up posts because you aren’t making sense.

“Actually, it’s not the “same offense”. Dallas was intentionally playing conservative those games and Rush was more than able to put up points in the second half when they needed to move the ball downfield.” -khiladi post #17

That’s you dude. You said that. You’re all emotional about Dak and it’s confusing you. Calm down some.

So “dude”, the logical implication of your argument is that they were playing in the same offense, whether you said it explicitly or not. Which is why I actually brought the numbers about running more and targeting the backs way more in the passing game with Rush to prove they went conservative and it was not the same offense.

So it’s you that needs to “calm down”, because you apparently are sick and tired of people claiming that Dak is a dumb QB and needs a dumbed down offense

 

[cald0d30s0]

I think the biggest problem is the coaches believe Dak can only throw certain routes well. The short button hooks; the short drag; the little wheel route; and the “find the soft spot” at about 5-8 yards.
.
Anything further than 40 bomb is a no go.
Deep outs and deep ins are iffy, as are slants.
It takes legendary QBs like Elway, Marino, Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana and Aikman to make all those throws.

Best comment I’ve read on a long time.