Offensive Creativity

[Roadtrip635]

Hey buddy, whats up.

I think the team views the offense as a real problem, despite where they rank in points per production or whatever else stat you look at. Just look at what they have done since the season ended.................

A) 7 of the team's 10 draft picks were used on offensive players, including trading a 6th for wr/rb. A team does not use 70% of their draft capital on the offensive side of the ball if they think things are going good there.

B) The entire WR core has pretty much been gutted. Out of the 8 WRs currently on the roster, only 3 were here last year, and that includes Noah Brown who played very little. So really, only Twill and Beasley are the only main WRs still left on this team.

C) They are chucking the entire offensive playbook and going to more RPOs, or as Jerry said "more college stuff". Again, a team does not totally remake the playbook if they think the offensive is fine and dandy.

So lets recap, over 70% of the team's draft capital was spent on offensive players, the entire wr core has pretty much been gutted, and the offensive scheme is changing to heavy RPO, similar to what the Chiefs run for best NFL comparison. Like I said, a team does not do all of this if they are happy with their points per production and if that ranks in the top 5 or top 10, they just don't.

Stop making sense.......making sense........

 

[Idgit]

Hey buddy, whats up.

I think the team views the offense as a real problem, despite where they rank in points per production or whatever else stat you look at. Just look at what they have done since the season ended.................

A) 7 of the team's 10 draft picks were used on offensive players, including trading a 6th for wr/rb. A team does not use 70% of their draft capital on the offensive side of the ball if they think things are going good there.

B) The entire WR core has pretty much been gutted. Out of the 8 WRs currently on the roster, only 3 were here last year, and that includes Noah Brown who played very little. So really, only Twill and Beasley are the only main WRs still left on this team.

C) They are chucking the entire offensive playbook and going to more RPOs, or as Jerry said "more college stuff". Again, a team does not totally remake the playbook if they think the offensive is fine and dandy.

So lets recap, over 70% of the team's draft capital was spent on offensive players, the entire wr core has pretty much been gutted, and the offensive scheme is changing to heavy RPO, similar to what the Chiefs run for best NFL comparison. Like I said, a team does not do all of this if they are happy with their points per production and if that ranks in the top 5 or top 10, they just don't.

How many years now have they done this? The fact that the team clearly doesn’t agree with me doesn’t mean I’m not right.

Though, this year at least, cutting Dez had a lot to do with the changes they’re making to the receiver group. Hurns and Gallup, anyway, can be attributed to cutting that contract.

 

[Beast_from_East]

The fact that the team clearly doesn’t agree with me doesn’t mean I’m not right.

That is what I keep saying every day about Garrett

 

[Buzzbait]

Hey buddy, whats up.

I think the team views the offense as a real problem, despite where they rank in points per production or whatever else stat you look at. Just look at what they have done since the season ended.................

A) 7 of the team's 10 draft picks were used on offensive players, including trading a 6th for wr/rb. A team does not use 70% of their draft capital on the offensive side of the ball if they think things are going good there.

B) The entire WR core has pretty much been gutted. Out of the 8 WRs currently on the roster, only 3 were here last year, and that includes Noah Brown who played very little. So really, only Twill and Beasley are the only main WRs still left on this team.

C) They are chucking the entire offensive playbook and going to more RPOs, or as Jerry said "more college stuff". Again, a team does not totally remake the playbook if they think the offensive is fine and dandy.

So lets recap, over 70% of the team's draft capital was spent on offensive players, the entire wr core has pretty much been gutted, and the offensive scheme is changing to heavy RPO, similar to what the Chiefs run for best NFL comparison. Like I said, a team does not do all of this if they are happy with their points per production and if that ranks in the top 5 or top 10, they just don't.

It's going to be interesting Beast, it's gonna be interesting!

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

"fight harder" - which is why we won't be winning anything with Garrett at the helm. See while our guys are fighting harder, teams like that Patriots, Steelers and GB are fighting smarter.

 

[northerncowboynation]

After watching the outstanding series “All or Nothing”, I was struck by how much our coaching staff seemed to stick with the same offensive tendencies whether they continued to work or not. Garrett is often seen repeating the mantra “We just need to fight harder” when the team has a bad game. “Fight” is a great slogan, but in the NFL, fighting hard is not enough. You have to sometimes have some new wrinkles.

If fact what this team desperately needs from its coaching staff going into 2018 is creativity, especially on offense. I know it’s popular on these boards for fans to scream, “Just run the ball”, as if all we need to do for 60 straight plays is hand it to Zeke. The NFL is never that simple.

Looking back on the 2017 season, it was a tale of two seasons on offense. In the first 8 games of the season, we went 5-3 (should have been 6-2 or 7-1), averaged 28 points a game, which was 5th in the NFL, averaged 379 yds a game (8th in NFL). In the last 8 games, we averaged 16 points a game (28th in NFL) and 293 yds a game (26th).

First half of the season, we had Zeke and Tyron Smith, the last half we had Zeke for 2 games and Tyron for 3 and a half. Sure that hurt, but is this team going to fold anytime key starters are hurt? Is that just the way it’s going to be? We have to depend on injury good luck to remain a good offense?

Somehow Doug Pederson was able to get the beagles offense continue to hum all the way to a SB without its star QB and it’s starting LT. How? Through creativity and some risk taking in key moments.

When Nick Foles started the playoffs, conventional wisdom was that the beagles were toast and that Pederson would just have a few basic plays for Foles to run as a bus driver. Instead, we saw that offense roll out some unusual plays and creative formations that threw DCs into head scratching fits. All based on finding creative ways to make the offense less predictable and more edgy.

It’s no secret the Cowboys coaching staff likes these formations best:
1. “12 Personnel”- 1 RB, 2 TEs and 2 WRs. They run this formation over 50% of the time, regardless of opponent, regardless of who’s playing for us.
2. “11 Personnel” - 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs- second most common formation, most often used for passing situations. The RB can be used as a slot receiver in an empty set.
3. “22 Personnel”- 2 RBs, 2 TEs, 1 WR- a common formation for short yardage and goal line situations.

These are not the only formations of course, but my point is, the Cowboys are actually pretty predictable on offense. I don’t care how great your OL and skill people are, in 2018 NFL world you cannot just run the same stuff a la the 90s Cowboys. Those days are long gone.

With the addition of Tavon Austin and the new “committee” approach at WR, the Cowboys can be much less predictable by spreading the ball around between more options, and getting more creative with Zeke as well. Just asking your players to “fight harder” isn’t enough.

Thoughts?

Pretty much the same thoughts as you Bob without the Beagles reference. I give them no credence. It was luck lol. I'm hoping we go 10 personnel more often now. I've read guys saying that the defense will stack to stop Zeke and the running game. In the words of Dirty Harry "go ahead make my day". Throw the little fast guys out there, make them pay. Make them go small then stop Zeke. We know how Zeke treats small, smash and hurdle. Way more options now with some speed and I assume improved route running. If JG and SL don't make a plan and draw up 10-15 plays and practice them before game time, with a few wrinkles, that's on both of them. Then it's up to SL to realize what's working and not working during the game. If SL doesn't adjust during the game that's all on him and his nurtz are in the wringer as they should be

 

[DandyDon52]

With the addition of Tavon Austin and the new “committee” approach at WR, the Cowboys can be much less predictable by spreading the ball around between more options, and getting more creative with Zeke as well. Just asking your players to “fight harder” isn’t enough.

I think they will try new things,
But they may not be able to execute them.
When they tried to do rub plays
They could not do them.
The jet sweep was the only one they did well.
Then that ended with lucky leaving.
Main good thing is no pressure on dak to pass to one guy, that's going to help alot.
I hope they run more, and in more situations, like 3rd and 2 or 3.

 

[Doomsday101]

I remember Ray Lewis barking out exactly what we were doing and he was right!

and I watch Lee do that every weekend the Cowboys play vs other teams.

 

[Stash]

After watching the outstanding series “All or Nothing”, I was struck by how much our coaching staff seemed to stick with the same offensive tendencies whether they continued to work or not. Garrett is often seen repeating the mantra “We just need to fight harder” when the team has a bad game. “Fight” is a great slogan, but in the NFL, fighting hard is not enough. You have to sometimes have some new wrinkles.

If fact what this team desperately needs from its coaching staff going into 2018 is creativity, especially on offense. I know it’s popular on these boards for fans to scream, “Just run the ball”, as if all we need to do for 60 straight plays is hand it to Zeke. The NFL is never that simple.

Looking back on the 2017 season, it was a tale of two seasons on offense. In the first 8 games of the season, we went 5-3 (should have been 6-2 or 7-1), averaged 28 points a game, which was 5th in the NFL, averaged 379 yds a game (8th in NFL). In the last 8 games, we averaged 16 points a game (28th in NFL) and 293 yds a game (26th).

First half of the season, we had Zeke and Tyron Smith, the last half we had Zeke for 2 games and Tyron for 3 and a half. Sure that hurt, but is this team going to fold anytime key starters are hurt? Is that just the way it’s going to be? We have to depend on injury good luck to remain a good offense?

Somehow Doug Pederson was able to get the beagles offense continue to hum all the way to a SB without its star QB and it’s starting LT. How? Through creativity and some risk taking in key moments.

When Nick Foles started the playoffs, conventional wisdom was that the beagles were toast and that Pederson would just have a few basic plays for Foles to run as a bus driver. Instead, we saw that offense roll out some unusual plays and creative formations that threw DCs into head scratching fits. All based on finding creative ways to make the offense less predictable and more edgy.

It’s no secret the Cowboys coaching staff likes these formations best:
1. “12 Personnel”- 1 RB, 2 TEs and 2 WRs. They run this formation over 50% of the time, regardless of opponent, regardless of who’s playing for us.
2. “11 Personnel” - 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs- second most common formation, most often used for passing situations. The RB can be used as a slot receiver in an empty set.
3. “22 Personnel”- 2 RBs, 2 TEs, 1 WR- a common formation for short yardage and goal line situations.

These are not the only formations of course, but my point is, the Cowboys are actually pretty predictable on offense. I don’t care how great your OL and skill people are, in 2018 NFL world you cannot just run the same stuff a la the 90s Cowboys. Those days are long gone.

With the addition of Tavon Austin and the new “committee” approach at WR, the Cowboys can be much less predictable by spreading the ball around between more options, and getting more creative with Zeke as well. Just asking your players to “fight harder” isn’t enough.

Thoughts?

I think that your points illustrate my own thoughts on this team's offensive issues. Issues which can be summed up in two words:

Player reliance.

These coaches are entirely reliant on high quality players overcoming their coaching shortcomings. When they have talent superior to their opponents? They can win. If they don't? They can't.

When Marinelli didn't have Sean Lee, his defense fell apart. When the offensive line didn't have Tyron Smith, it fell apart.

When these coaches didn't have Romo changing plays and making calls on the field? They couldn't manage to win a game.

At this point, there are no more excuses, they're either going to be more creative this year, or their won't be a next year.

 

[Stash]

I think that you're overthinking things. The Cowboys were 9-1 in games that Sean Lee started and finished last year and 0-6 in games that he didn't. Let that sink in for a minute. Yes, I know, injuries happen - but the Cowboys' lack of depth at the linebacker position was a KILLER last year. Same thing with the Zeke suspension and Tyron Smith injury.

Remember that they went 13-3 with the same scheme in 2016.

You're "underthinking" things. Trying to dismiss failure simply due to injury.

 

[Stash]

"fight harder" - which is why we won't be winning anything with Garrett at the helm. See while our guys are fighting harder, teams like that Patriots, Steelers and GB are fighting smarter.

How about "coach better"?

Can we get some t-shirts with that printed on it?

I'll volunteer to buy two. One for me and one for Garrett.

 

[CowboysExchange]

Run run Pass. Run run pass. Out of the same formation with the same personnel. Same basic routes a defense has to prepare for. You got Guys like Twill playing all those snaps and drowning and no rotation at #2 wr. No rotation at Te Witten on red zone plays or 3rd and Long where he lacks abilities, no rotation in the slot w Dez just leave him on the outside when he's not winning those speed battles anymore.

We don't scheme around their weaknesses. We don't scheme around speed. We dont scheme around the element of surprise. Their team could have the sorriest slowest secondary in the league and we'd try to dominate them running the ball.

No full time slot wrs just plug n play only. When you got the #1 open rate slot wr in football. Lol. Really.

Players talents and Skills win you games. About the time you have success they start trying to dissect how to scheme to beat you. Since we have a never changing game plan or scheme or formations we've already been dissected and beat on paper long ago. In the NFL you have to use depth and spread the ball around to 6-7 guys . In a progression system that works from the top player down it's hard for player involvement once you get past the 3rd guy. We haven't had a clutch #2 receiver in this scheme which kills us. So Dez Witten and Zeke (or Murray) isn't enough depth of player involvement to fool anybody much less beat anybody at the playoff Level. But Carrot Top and JJ seem to think so.

 

[Flamma]

The early 90s Cowboys had the talent to run a predictable offense and get by with it.
We don't have that same talent level so we can't afford that kind of predictability. They don't need a "tricked up" offense, just smarter and a little more deceptive.

Have you ever tried running a bluff in a poker game with all your cards face up? Keeping your cards hidden doesn't require trick plays, just smart play. Same thing when you reach the red zone and come to the LOS with an empty backfield. Which screams to the defense exactly what you're going to do.
If you have the talent to dare fate, great. But if you don't, then it's stupid to tell the defense what you're doing as soon as you line up, especially in the red zone.

This is what I was talking about. If you have formations that you pass and run from 75% of the time, you're giving the defense information they don't need to know. You don't need to dazzle teams with creative formations, just don't tell them what you're doing with formations. The only clue a defense should have as to whether you are passing or running is down and distance, not formation.

 

[Dre11]

No, creativity isn't an option when you don't have the COACHES to be creative.

So let’s see, what do you call creative? Let’s see if you even know creative...lol

 

[atlantacowboy]

After watching the outstanding series “All or Nothing”, I was struck by how much our coaching staff seemed to stick with the same offensive tendencies whether they continued to work or not. Garrett is often seen repeating the mantra “We just need to fight harder” when the team has a bad game. “Fight” is a great slogan, but in the NFL, fighting hard is not enough. You have to sometimes have some new wrinkles.

If fact what this team desperately needs from its coaching staff going into 2018 is creativity, especially on offense. I know it’s popular on these boards for fans to scream, “Just run the ball”, as if all we need to do for 60 straight plays is hand it to Zeke. The NFL is never that simple.

Looking back on the 2017 season, it was a tale of two seasons on offense. In the first 8 games of the season, we went 5-3 (should have been 6-2 or 7-1), averaged 28 points a game, which was 5th in the NFL, averaged 379 yds a game (8th in NFL). In the last 8 games, we averaged 16 points a game (28th in NFL) and 293 yds a game (26th).

First half of the season, we had Zeke and Tyron Smith, the last half we had Zeke for 2 games and Tyron for 3 and a half. Sure that hurt, but is this team going to fold anytime key starters are hurt? Is that just the way it’s going to be? We have to depend on injury good luck to remain a good offense?

Somehow Doug Pederson was able to get the beagles offense continue to hum all the way to a SB without its star QB and it’s starting LT. How? Through creativity and some risk taking in key moments.

When Nick Foles started the playoffs, conventional wisdom was that the beagles were toast and that Pederson would just have a few basic plays for Foles to run as a bus driver. Instead, we saw that offense roll out some unusual plays and creative formations that threw DCs into head scratching fits. All based on finding creative ways to make the offense less predictable and more edgy.

It’s no secret the Cowboys coaching staff likes these formations best:
1. “12 Personnel”- 1 RB, 2 TEs and 2 WRs. They run this formation over 50% of the time, regardless of opponent, regardless of who’s playing for us.
2. “11 Personnel” - 1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WRs- second most common formation, most often used for passing situations. The RB can be used as a slot receiver in an empty set.
3. “22 Personnel”- 2 RBs, 2 TEs, 1 WR- a common formation for short yardage and goal line situations.

These are not the only formations of course, but my point is, the Cowboys are actually pretty predictable on offense. I don’t care how great your OL and skill people are, in 2018 NFL world you cannot just run the same stuff a la the 90s Cowboys. Those days are long gone.

With the addition of Tavon Austin and the new “committee” approach at WR, the Cowboys can be much less predictable by spreading the ball around between more options, and getting more creative with Zeke as well. Just asking your players to “fight harder” isn’t enough.

Thoughts?

Everything you need to know about how the team is run was on the last episode at the coaches meeting. If you don't "100% buy in" to Garret's agenda, regardless of how flawed, you are out. He doesn't tolerate dissension. It is his way or the highway. Not exactly an environment that fosters creativity.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

 

[Bobhaze]

Everything you need to know about how the team is run was on the last episode at the coaches meeting. If you don't "100% buy in" to Garret's agenda, regardless of how flawed, you are out. He doesn't tolerate dissension. It is his way or the highway. Not exactly an environment that fosters creativity.

When you hear JG talk, whether to players, coaches or the media, his robotic persona is the antithesis of creativity. I’m just hoping some of his new staff can add some spice beyond the mantra of “fight”.

And I did see “All or Nothing”. Yes Garrett drops f bombs like a fighter pilot but it still sounds like robotic f bombs! Lol!

 

[atlantacowboy]

When you hear JG talk, whether to players, coaches or the media, his robotic persona is the antithesis of creativity. I’m just hoping some of his new staff can add some spice beyond the mantra of “fight”.

And I did see “All or Nothing”. Yes Garrett drops f bombs like a fighter pilot but it still sounds like robotic f bombs! Lol!

And he repeats the same motivational catch phrases over and over. I was getting sick of it and I only had to watch for 10 hours. I can't imagine how annoying it must be to have to listen to that all day.

 

[Keithfansince5]

The issue I have beyond what was so eloquently said by the op is that they do not utilize Zeke enough. Zeke could be the back who could rush for 1,000 and catch for 1,000 if he was thrown more passes.

So many times rather than throwing a bubble screen to twill who sucks big ones at running after the catch, they could throw that to Zeke who actually excels at yac. Nope, not our guys. Zeke is lucky if he gets 2 or 3 passes a game. It is ridiculous.

Zeke should by design get 20 rushes and 10 passes each game. Do that and defenses will not be able to just stack the box all the time. Zeke would be a monster.

 

[GMO415]

They call it a 1992 offense....but we don't have all the triplets this year.