Offensive Line Question

burmafrd;3264158 said:
That day we were just not really with it. I think that all the stupid comments about not winning a playoff game in years really got to the players and once we got that monkey off our back we relaxed. And then we got our heads handed to us. That is something I put on Wade for not being able to overcome. Jimmy and other coaches can - he could not. Maybe no coach could have kept us with the edge we needed. BUT I really think this is the one area that Wade as a coach just cannot compete with the top coaches on.

Wade is certainly complicit in the loss. But Garrett and Hauck must shoulder the majority of the blame. They didn't adjust well to the schemes the Vikings through at us at all. The focus was on Allen and when Edwards began to dominate adjustments where slow to come and where in-effective when they were made. The most Glaring coaching error was displayed when Witten was isolated with J. Allen after Flo left the game. That was an un-believable mistake in a game of that magnitude. We were lucky that Romo wasn't injured.
 
Nightshade;3264165 said:
Wade is certainly complicit in the loss. But Garrett and Hauck must shoulder the majority of the blame. They didn't adjust well to the schemes the Vikings through at us at all. The focus was on Allen and when Edwards began to dominate adjustments where slow to come and where in-effective when they were made. The most Glaring coaching error was displayed when Witten was isolated with J. Allen after Flo left the game. That was an un-believable mistake in a game of that magnitude. We were lucky that Romo wasn't injured.
I agree it had less to do with Phillips than Garrett and especially Houck.

Their DL was very well prepared for that game and used the noise factor to their advantage. We were simply sloppy and overwhelmed from a preparation standpoint. That was on Houck in particular.
 
Idgit;3264098 said:
Our problem has been our interior run blocking and, to a lesser extent, interior blitz and stunt pickups for about the last 3 years. The guards pull well and perform well in certain downs and distances, but they can't lineup and beat the best DLs at crucial times. It was especially evident this year in short yardage situations, but it's been apparent for some time.

It's a tough problem to fix, because imho it requires incremental improvement from all three of the interior players.

Purhaps the Cowboys focus on size and power has to shift to athleticism. Kosier is smaller but seems to be more adept at moving the giant DT's with leverage and positioning. I remember how BIG was unable to get Barber the holes he needed on 2 consecutive goal line plays. Is he just not quick enough to get the proper positioning against larger DT's? Size and power didn't help Columbo against Edwards. Free with his superior athleticism may have been a better option against Edwards if he'd have started.
 
Winning back to back SBs is so very hard to do. Only top coaches can do it- and they find ways to keep their teams from losing their edge and getting complacent. Wade has not shown that ability. Jimmy in Miami certainly did not seem to have the drive and determination that I saw in dallas.
 
Colombo was clearly limping and not 100% in that game so I do not put a whole lot of stock on that performance.
 
burmafrd;3264172 said:
Winning back to back SBs is so very hard to do. Only top coaches can do it- and they find ways to keep their teams from losing their edge and getting complacent. Wade has not shown that ability. Jimmy in Miami certainly did not seem to have the drive and determination that I saw in dallas.

I think Jimmy is a fine coach but like any HC can and has been thumped big time. Wade can't handle going up against other top coaches? BS He and his staff seemed to do a number on Payton and the Saints at their house.
 
Yeah- well frankly I do not really think that that was all that great a job on Wades part. And even so what is that that is said about a blind squirrel finding a nut now and then? THAT is why I pointed out that during our second SB year,Jimmy kept us from getting complacent and relaxed which is what happened against the Vikings. Wade has NOT shown that ability.
 
Minnesota's and New Orleans' offensive lines have had weakness exposed this season as well. They just did a better job compensating during the playoffs. Drafting guys in the first round isn't really the answer. Getting guys that fit the system a little better than say Leonard Davis, might be.
 
burmafrd;3264199 said:
Yeah- well frankly I do not really think that that was all that great a job on Wades part. And even so what is that that is said about a blind squirrel finding a nut now and then? THAT is why I pointed out that during our second SB year,Jimmy kept us from getting complacent and relaxed which is what happened against the Vikings. Wade has NOT shown that ability.

Wade has shown he can win, you are right he has no SB rings many other good HC do not have them either. Wade has this team heading in the right directions. Now let me ask you should he get this team to the SB and win does he automatically become a great coach?
 
Idgit;3264122 said:
I don't really understand what the problem is with the line, to be honest. Davis I think does get submarined in short yardage situations. I think it's a situation where they perform well against adequate and good players but lose the matchups to great ones, but that's just a guess. It'd be interesting to see a credible breakdown of how OL play against red and blue chip players across the league. I don't know that one exists, though.

The MIN DL just tossed our salad across the board. The biggest problem was off RT, but we got no push against their big DTs in the middle so there was no pocket for Tony to step up into, and when Flo went out, Free couldn't handle Allen all on his own. I do think that part of the game would have been different if we were playing at home, but it's hard to say.

I think you're right about having problems against what is probably the best DL in the NFC. They just got outplayed although having Free in the game and a rusty Colombo mitigates that enough for me to question it a little. I still think it played a part; being overmatched.

And there is nothing to do about that except draft well over the next 3-5 years on the OL. It's been ignored too long, IMO. Most of the top picks have been on the defense and the offense seems to be paying a price for it. I could be wrong about that but over the last 13 years the offense has failed this club consistently. Even the 07 year it did in the end. It certainly did against MN this year. And it failed to get more than 25 points a game this year (and last year) scoring 22 points per game. From our yardage gained we should have scored at least 450 points and really right at 500 points.

So, IMO, it's not just the OL that needs addressing. It needs another primary WR that produces. And before people start saying I'm bashing RW I'm not. Just stating a fact and that fact is hurting us. RW may prove to be that #2 or even #1 WR next year but I'm not counting on it. That's why I'd either draft a WR who can become a #1/#2 WR or get one in FA. We should be able to get one in the second if not the first. I'd take OL in the first. JMO though.
 
BS on getting another Top WR. Its not needed. We have plenty of talent on the WR side of things added to our all world TE and things we can do with Felix.

Wade will never be a great coach no matter if he does win a SB. It takes more then that. Gruden is not a great coach. I do not consider Dungy a great coach.
 
Nightshade;3264171 said:
Purhaps the Cowboys focus on size and power has to shift to athleticism. Kosier is smaller but seems to be more adept at moving the giant DT's with leverage and positioning. I remember how BIG was unable to get Barber the holes he needed on 2 consecutive goal line plays. Is he just not quick enough to get the proper positioning against larger DT's? Size and power didn't help Columbo against Edwards. Free with his superior athleticism may have been a better option against Edwards if he'd have started.

Colombo was coming off a broken leg and should not have even been playing. This was a huge error on Wade, same goes for riding Barber all year instead of forcing him to sit and heal. Maybe old man Houck should have told Colombo to wait till next year. Coaching breakdown whichever way you wanna slice and dice it...
 
jobberone;3264222 said:
I think you're right about having problems against what is probably the best DL in the NFC. They just got outplayed although having Free in the game and a rusty Colombo mitigates that enough for me to question it a little. I still think it played a part; being overmatched.

And there is nothing to do about that except draft well over the next 3-5 years on the OL. It's been ignored too long, IMO. Most of the top picks have been on the defense and the offense seems to be paying a price for it. I could be wrong about that but over the last 13 years the offense has failed this club consistently. Even the 07 year it did in the end. It certainly did against MN this year. And it failed to get more than 25 points a game this year (and last year) scoring 22 points per game. From our yardage gained we should have scored at least 450 points and really right at 500 points.

So, IMO, it's not just the OL that needs addressing. It needs another primary WR that produces. And before people start saying I'm bashing RW I'm not. Just stating a fact and that fact is hurting us. RW may prove to be that #2 or even #1 WR next year but I'm not counting on it. That's why I'd either draft a WR who can become a #1/#2 WR or get one in FA. We should be able to get one in the second if not the first. I'd take OL in the first. JMO though.

Jerry Jones is well aware that this team has not drafted well at OL and that this is a concern for upgrade, just as he knew that Miles Austin was about to emerge at WR. That's why he called T.O. a progress stopper; while the media nation, and many of us, laughed, we now know that Jerry knew what he was talking about.

And at hte beginning of the year Jerry Jones talked about OL depth being his greatest concern, and need-for-evaluation in the preseason. As it stans, it was that very lack of depth that did the club in during the playoffs. So Jerry Jones knows.

The new thing we found about in 2009 is that Bennett is not living up to the expectation needed ot run a 2-TE based offense. The fact that the offensive coaching staff took a risk on that and got burned is their fualt. The fact that Roy Williams' decline contributed to that is further their fault, although they share htat with Jerry Jones, the GM.

So using hindsight and foresight, it's obviois this team has three big areas of upgrades ot address for 2010

1) Better coaching decisions from the offnsive coaches, all the way around

2) Better drafting of OL and WR, since these are big position areas of need that have largely been neglected/undershot by the scouts and GM for over a decade.

.......2a) Upgrades to the OL depth (through the draft).

.......2b) Upgrade to the starting #2 WR spot and WR depth as well (through the draft).

3) Upgrades to the S position and/or depth there (through the draft). [Note: While this is not an area that seemingly did Dallas in in 2009, it was the weakest part of the defense that was luckily masked by the tramendous play from the rest of the defense. However, this is an area gone largely neglectd/overshot as wee in the draft. ]
 
burmafrd;3264232 said:
BS on getting another Top WR. Its not needed. We have plenty of talent on the WR side of things added to our all world TE and things we can do with Felix.

Wade will never be a great coach no matter if he does win a SB. It takes more then that. Gruden is not a great coach. I do not consider Dungy a great coach.

Then chances are he will never live up to your expectation no matter what he does.
 
AMERICAS_FAN;3264259 said:
Jerry Jones is well aware that this team has not drafted well at OL and that this is a concern for upgrade, just as he knew that Miles Austin was about to emerge at WR. That's why he called T.O. a progress stopper; while the media nation, and many of us, laughed, we now know that Jerry knew what he was talking about.

And at hte beginning of the year Jerry Jones talked about OL depth being his greatest concern, and need-for-evaluation in the preseason. As it stans, it was that very lack of depth that did the club in during the playoffs. So Jerry Jones knows.

So using hinsight and foresight, it's obviois this tema has three big areas of upgrades ot address for 2010

Wow, take that Bach...:laugh2:
 
The only great coaches in MY lifetime were Landry, Shula, BP and Walsh. Because of the questions about Cheating and such I hesitate to put Bellichek on that list.
 
burmafrd;3264425 said:
The only great coaches in MY lifetime were Landry, Shula, BP and Walsh. Because of the questions about Cheating and such I hesitate to put Bellichek on that list.

In your view those are the greatest coach, I don't dispute the list of great coaches but my list of great and good HC is allot more than just those 4 coaches.
 
Doomsday101;3264103 said:
True and in the history of this franchise we have only used a 1st rd pick on any OL once
Howard Richards, right?
 
AmishCowboy;3264445 said:
Howard Richards, right?

There were 2 Richards was one that Hostile pointed out in 81 other than that you have to go to 1966 and John Niland
 
burmafrd;3264172 said:
Winning back to back SBs is so very hard to do. Only top coaches can do it- and they find ways to keep their teams from losing their edge and getting complacent. Wade has not shown that ability. Jimmy in Miami certainly did not seem to have the drive and determination that I saw in dallas.


More importantly he didn't have the talent in Miami he had in Dallas. Hell, Switzer should have won two SBs and not one with the talent he had. If they hadn't given SF 21 points to start that game, Aikman would have pulled it out. You can't argue Switzer was a master motivator.

Too much is made of coaching although I grant you it is important. It's just not the be all end all. Players play and coaches coach. The MN DL whipped us and that was the end of that. I wonder if Flo had stayed in would they have put Free on Edwards but it's an academic question.
 

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