Offensive Line Question

[Nightshade]

I need some info and insite from the considerable brain trust that views this website on the status of the cowboys O-Line.

The Cowboys have first round draft choices at almost every position on the offensive line. Kosier is the only Lineman who wasn't drafted in the first round and in my opinion he's one of our best O-lineman, propping up old Flo for the past 3 years when he's had problems. oh yeah, FLO was a second rounder from Michigan State. We also have a LEGENDARY O-Line Coach in Hudson Houck.

And yet the Cowboys melt down in the big games on the O-Line when it counts the most.

The last 2 years an O-Line meltdown has been key in the Cowboys being bumped from the playoffs.

Then you look at the Saints and Colts. Two teams that have had stellar play from their O-Lines these past 2 years. And these guys are mostly undrafted free agents and 4- 7th round draft picks.

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT All about?

The Patriots have also had stellar play for YEARS from 4th to 5th rounders. Why do we have such a hard time developing O-Lineman when other teams can do so much with so Much Less or at least from guys that are "supposed" to be less talented and physically gifted?

Is it that Gurode can't call the Line plays effectively in the big game?
Is it that Romo can't get rid of the ball fast enough and panics faster than the admittedly HOF caliber QB's of NE, Indy and NO?

I know the O-Line does very well in the regular season, and that's great.
But excuse me if I differ from Wade in my feeling that the regular season isn't what counts. The O-Line NEEDS to step up in the playoffs and they always seem to fold.

What is the Cowboys organization doing wrong?

 

[Temo]

2 words: No depth.

Doug Free was not the answer at LT when Flo went down. Other teams do a better job at replacing injured guys than we do.

If the entire O-Line is healthy (and not playing hurt, like half the line was last year), then we're fine. Anyone gets injured, we succumb (except for Free at RT this year, he did well... but he's no Flo when it comes to handling LT and the Jared Allens of the world).

 

[AMERICAS_FAN]

The current OL play is a function of Dallas not drafting well at all, dating back to the Parcells tenure, and then having to substitute with free agnts. When you do that you end up with a lesser player. That's why Dallas has OLinement that are above average, but I cna't call any of them great. And they are older and bigger than the average OL, so when december/January hits the wear-and-tear shows up.

So the root problem lies smack dab on the Cowboys' scouting department, or drafting tactics if the scouts are right but the board is not followed. I don't see coaching as the problem, at least not now that we have Hudson Hauke. I like him a great deal, but he needs draftees to work with that are worth developing.

For the future, Dallas simply needs to scout OL beteer and draft accordingly. for the present, the offensive-coordinator needs to do a better job of calling plays that play-into the OLs strengths and away from their weaknesses.

 

[AdamJT13]

The Cowboys have first round draft choices at almost every position on the offensive line. Kosier is the only Lineman who wasn't drafted in the first round and in my opinion he's one of our best O-lineman, propping up old Flo for the past 3 years when he's had problems. oh yeah, FLO was a second rounder from Michigan State.

Gurode was a second-round pick as well.

 

[Doomsday101]

2 words: No depth.

Doug Free was not the answer at LT when Flo went down. Other teams do a better job at replacing injured guys than we do.

If the entire O-Line is healthy (and not playing hurt, like half the line was last year), then we're fine. Anyone gets injured, we succumb (except for Free at RT this year, he did well... but he's no Flo when it comes to handling LT and the Jared Allens of the world).

Not that easy in the middle of the game moving from RT to LT had Free been working on the left side throughout the week the transition is easier to make than to be working at the RT spot then being forced into the LT on the spot

 

[Iago33]

Gurode was a second-round pick as well.

2 out of 5 ain't bad...

 

[Idgit]

2 words: No depth.

Doug Free was not the answer at LT when Flo went down. Other teams do a better job at replacing injured guys than we do.

If the entire O-Line is healthy (and not playing hurt, like half the line was last year), then we're fine. Anyone gets injured, we succumb (except for Free at RT this year, he did well... but he's no Flo when it comes to handling LT and the Jared Allens of the world).

Doug Free not the answer? Because he needed help with Jared Allen at home? That's a hasty conclusion. Free certainly was a viable answer at RT for most of the season.

Our problem has been our interior run blocking and, to a lesser extent, interior blitz and stunt pickups for about the last 3 years. The guards pull well and perform well in certain downs and distances, but they can't lineup and beat the best DLs at crucial times. It was especially evident this year in short yardage situations, but it's been apparent for some time.

It's a tough problem to fix, because imho it requires incremental improvement from all three of the interior players. I had high hopes for Hudson Houck's ability to achieve that when he came in, but I have to say I've been unimpressed with the results. I think it was probably a mistake in retrospect to lose Sparano and not replace him with Mike Solari when we had the chance.

I don't think it's something you can fix in one draft, though I do also think we need to concentrate on OL depth. I'm not sure where the improvement will come from, frankly. I think it's probably something we have to scheme around, though an upgrade at FB might be worth considering in either the draft or FA. I think Leonard Weaver only signed a 1 year deal in Philly last year, and he's someone I'd look at if he's available.

 

[Idgit]

2 out of 5 ain't bad...

We didn't draft Colombo or Davis in the first round, either.

 

[Doomsday101]

We didn't draft Colombo or Davis in the first round, either.

True and in the history of this franchise we have only used a 1st rd pick on any OL once

 

[Hostile]

Flozell Adams and Andre Gurode were both 2nd round picks. Dallas has not selected an O-Lineman in round 1 since 1981. Leonard Davis and Columbo were both selected by other teams and came here as Free Agents who were deemed busts.

Therefore two 2nd rounders who are multiple Pro Bowl honorees, a 7th round pick, and 2 Free Agent reclamation projects, one of whom is a multi time Pro Bowl honoree.

Maybe, just maybe, the Cowboys are doing something right and you fail to recognize it?

 

[Idgit]

True and in the history of this franchise we have only used a 1st rd pick on any OL once

Is that really true? Wow.

 

[Temo]

Doug Free not the answer? Because he needed help with Jared Allen at home? That's a hasty conclusion. Free certainly was a viable answer at RT for most of the season.

Our problem has been our interior run blocking and, to a lesser extent, interior blitz and stunt pickups for about the last 3 years. The guards pull well and perform well in certain downs and distances, but they can't lineup and beat the best DLs at crucial times. It was especially evident this year in short yardage situations, but it's been apparent for some time.

It's a tough problem to fix, because imho it requires incremental improvement from all three of the interior players. I had high hopes for Hudson Houck's ability to achieve that when he came in, but I have to say I've been unimpressed with the results. I think it was probably a mistake in retrospect to lose Sparano and not replace him with Mike Solari when we had the chance.

I don't think it's something you can fix in one draft, though I do also think we need to concentrate on OL depth. I'm not sure where the improvement will come from, frankly. I think it's probably something we have to scheme around, though an upgrade at FB might be worth considering in either the draft or FA. I think Leonard Weaver only signed a 1 year deal in Philly last year, and he's someone I'd look at if he's available.

I'm not saying Free will never be the answer, just that he couldn't fill Flozel's shoes well enough to give us a shot. I mentioned that he did well at RT. It didn't help that Columbo was having trouble on the other side as well, which spread the line pretty thin.

I'm no fan of Davis' pass blocking, but the Kosier and Gurode are fine for me.

 

[Doomsday101]

Flozell Adams and Andre Gurode were both 2nd round picks. Dallas has not selected an O-Lineman in round 1 since 1981. Leonard Davis and Columbo were both selected by other teams and came here as Free Agents who were deemed busts.

Therefore two 2nd rounders who are multiple Pro Bowl honorees, a 7th round pick, and 2 Free Agent reclamation projects, one of whom is a multi time Pro Bowl honoree.

Maybe, just maybe, the Cowboys are doing something right and you fail to recognize it?

You right we did draft on in 81 Howard Richards only other one was in 66 John Niland

 

[burmafrd]

Houck has not impressed me. I wonder if he just does not have the energy to really get it done anymore.

 

[Idgit]

I'm not saying Free will never be the answer, just that he couldn't fill Flozel's shoes well enough to give us a shot. I mentioned that he did well at RT. It didn't help that Columbo was having trouble on the other side as well, which spread the line pretty thin.

I'm no fan of Davis' run blocking, but the Kosier and Gurode are fine for me.

I don't really understand what the problem is with the line, to be honest. Davis I think does get submarined in short yardage situations. I think it's a situation where they perform well against adequate and good players but lose the matchups to great ones, but that's just a guess. It'd be interesting to see a credible breakdown of how OL play against red and blue chip players across the league. I don't know that one exists, though.

The MIN DL just tossed our salad across the board. The biggest problem was off RT, but we got no push against their big DTs in the middle so there was no pocket for Tony to step up into, and when Flo went out, Free couldn't handle Allen all on his own. I do think that part of the game would have been different if we were playing at home, but it's hard to say.

 

[Alexander]

Houck has not impressed me. I wonder if he just does not have the energy to really get it done anymore.

This was a concern I had when he was hired. He lost patience with his line in Dallas before he left and Miami's lines underachieved noticeably when he was there. The Dolphins were ready to give up on Vernon Carey just like we were about to give up on Adams and now he, like Adams in 2003, is performing at a Pro Bowl level.

This is one area where I do not think continuity is the answer. And with potentially younger blood coming aboard next year, it is even more of a concern.

 

[Temo]

I don't really understand what the problem is with the line, to be honest. Davis I think does get submarined in short yardage situations. I think it's a situation where they perform well against adequate and good players but lose the matchups to great ones, but that's just a guess. It'd be interesting to see a credible breakdown of how OL play against red and blue chip players across the league. I don't know that one exists, though.

The MIN DL just tossed our salad across the board. The biggest problem was off RT, but we got no push against their big DTs in the middle so there was no pocket for Tony to step up into, and when Flo went out, Free couldn't handle Allen all on his own. I do think that part of the game would have been different if we were playing at home, but it's hard to say.

I totally meant Davis' pass blocking, my bad on that. I don't blame our interior line for not getting much rushing room up the middle against the Vikes. They're solid up the middle.

 

[Nightshade]

Flozell Adams and Andre Gurode were both 2nd round picks. Dallas has not selected an O-Lineman in round 1 since 1981. Leonard Davis and Columbo were both selected by other teams and came here as Free Agents who were deemed busts.

Therefore two 2nd rounders who are multiple Pro Bowl honorees, a 7th round pick, and 2 Free Agent reclamation projects, one of whom is a multi time Pro Bowl honoree.

Maybe, just maybe, the Cowboys are doing something right and you fail to recognize it?

The Cowboys have a very good O-Line. I recognize that. They've done very well in the regular season. I recognize that. I'm a Cowboys fan. I think the organization is working to make the team better. However, the past two years failures to advance in the post season have obviously had something to do with a failure on the offensive line to cope with the superior talent\schemes they come up against in the post season. I want to see progression in this area and I don't know why it's not happening.

I'm not looking to criticize the cowboys. I'm just looking for answers to deficiencies in the play of the O-line that's lead to post season failure (which to be honest still STINGS).

 

[burmafrd]

That day we were just not really with it. I think that all the stupid comments about not winning a playoff game in years really got to the players and once we got that monkey off our back we relaxed. And then we got our heads handed to us. That is something I put on Wade for not being able to overcome. Jimmy and other coaches can - he could not. Maybe no coach could have kept us with the edge we needed. BUT I really think this is the one area that Wade as a coach just cannot compete with the top coaches on.

 

[Doomsday101]

That day we were just not really with it. I think that all the stupid comments about not winning a playoff game in years really got to the players and once we got that monkey off our back we relaxed. And then we got our heads handed to us. That is something I put on Wade for not being able to overcome. Jimmy and other coaches can - he could not. Maybe no coach could have kept us with the edge we needed. BUT I really think this is the one area that Wade as a coach just cannot compete with the top coaches on.

So what happened to us when Detroit cleaned our clocks 38 to 6 in the playoffs under Jimmy?

I also recall Miami getting their clocks cleaned vs Jacksonville 62-7 in the post season with Jimmy as the HC so what was the deal on that? :laugh2: