Office Debate I had (stud DE or stud RB)

[Hostile]

No matter what Mario isnt in a good position, hell he was BOO'ed by his OWN fans on draft day. Unless he is Reggie Whites ghost, what he does will never be good enough for them.

Agreed, and on some levels you can empathize with Mario and the fans. He's done nothing to deserve the derision. They have a right to their expectations. If he's not a good to great player for them or if Bush is all the hype says he is and more, the Texans fans will never let it die.

8 years later we still talk Moss over Ellis sometimes.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

8 years later we still talk Moss over Ellis sometimes.

Pllllllllease don't remind me, lol.

OK, White versus Payton is a good comparison, although I don't think it is a good comparison to the Mario/Bush situation. White/Payton are both great HOFs, while it has already been said that Mario doesn't have the cat quick reflexes of the great ones.

When I see Mario, I see Courntey Brown, unfortunately, not a great one. Bush has graded out to be legitimately great in this league, with all kinda comparisons seeming accurate. Bush has the vision, agility, speed, and instincts of a great RB.

I could see the choice of Mario, if Mario was as good of DE as Bush is a RB, but Mario isn't. Bush is the better talent at his position in comparison to others at his position, thus this is the reason that a mistake was made in selecting Mario.

 

[THUMPER]

Actually, the Texans should have taken Vince Young with the #1 pick. He would have made the fans happy at least.

They are a long ways from winning anyway so taking a guy who would have pleased the fans would have made the most sense. At least they would have no problem selling tickets the the games. Besides he could have stepped in when Davis went down since he is more of a RB than a QB anyway.

 

[Vintage]

Yes, but Olajuwon wasn't the bust, Bowie was.

I think Mario will likely be fine, but he's going to be measured against everything Bush does and that isn't a position I'd want to be in unless I could replicate Julius Peppers kind of play.

bowies suffered injury.

Not entirely his fault.

Thougj, Jordan was God.

 

[scottsp]

Hypothetically speaking, if given the choice between top-end runner and top end pass rusher at DE, there is no question that the defensive end gets the nod, provided they're carrying similar draft grades.

In the case with Mo Williams vs. Reggie Bush, there seemed to be quite a bit of disparity in favor of the runner. Houston only blinked when money came into the equation. Talent vs. talent, there was no comparison here.

Elite pass rushers are much harder to find than high-end running backs. Thats why such a premium is placed on these guys when they are a part of the draft. They change games. As tight as games are in the league today, turnovers, or the ability to create them, give a defense a huge advantage.

Turnovers are incredibly huge. And pass rushers go a long way towards forcing them.

 

[TheHustler]

I'll take the DE that gets 12-15 sacks a year.

RBs that can run for 1300 yards are a dime a dozen.

 

[Concord]

I'll take the DE that gets 12-15 sacks a year.

RBs that can run for 1300 yards are a dime a dozen.

You mean like Julius?

The Cowboys haven't had a dime a Dozen back like that in a long time. 1999 in fact. Since Emmitt had 1397.

They're hardly a dime a dozen.

I doubt Williams will see a 12 to 15 sack year...let alone more than one.

 

[Daudr]

Houston blew it, plain and simple. Reggie is a game-breaker player, and Williams is just a so-so DE. Huge mistake, especially on a team where David Carr needed some help on offense.

 

[Sarge]

I would take a Reggie White over a W. Payton. RB's are far easier to find/replace than true/stud DE's.

As for Bush vs. Williams........Bush, all day....every day.

 

[Glenn Carano]

You mean like Julius?

The Cowboys haven't had a dime a Dozen back like that in a long time. 1999 in fact. Since Emmitt had 1397.

They're hardly a dime a dozen.

I doubt Williams will see a 12 to 15 sack year...let alone more than one.

The question posed was would you rather have a "great" Hall of Fame type DE or a "great" Hall of Fame type RB, not Bush over Williams? The Texans blew it, we all know that, but I'd take a Hall of Fame DE over a Hall of Fame RB.

Look at the Hall of Fame right now. In the modern era there are twice as many RB's in there as DE's. It's harder to find a Hall of Fame DE than a Hall of Fame RB. Like I said earlier, I'll take the DE that gives you 15 sacks a year and find me a RB that puts up 1000+ yards over a DE that gives you 5-6 sacks a year and a RB that puts up 1500+ yards.

 

[jay cee]

The question posed was would you rather have a "great" Hall of Fame type DE or a "great" Hall of Fame type RB, not Bush over Williams? The Texans blew it, we all know that, but I'd take a Hall of Fame DE over a Hall of Fame RB.

Look at the Hall of Fame right now. In the modern era there are twice as many RB's in there as DE's. It's harder to find a Hall of Fame DE than a Hall of Fame RB. Like I said earlier, I'll take the DE that gives you 15 sacks a year and find me a RB that puts up 1000+ yards over a DE that gives you 5-6 sacks a year and a RB that puts up 1500+ yards.

I think I would take the RB that puts up 1500+ yards and will settle for the DE that can get me 8-10 sacks.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

You mean like Julius?

The Cowboys haven't had a dime a Dozen back like that in a long time. 1999 in fact. Since Emmitt had 1397.

They're hardly a dime a dozen.

I doubt Williams will see a 12 to 15 sack year...let alone more than one.

Well, they are a dime a dozen if you have a great offensive line. In this case, Bush is just the better player.

 

[DallasDomination]

I disagree with the thread starter 100%.

A Great RB is far more important than a great DE. No question about it.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

stud pass rushing de over stud rb. 99 times out of 100.

Unless of course, he's the running back of his generation. (which Bush may well be)

 

[Jimz31]

I hear an awful lot about Bush being a game-breaker etc., but so far, in the pros, what has he done?

He' carried the ball 21 times for 72 yards.....the last game, he only had 5 yard on 6 carries. He's done better at catching the ball out of the backfield....15 catches for 120 yards and he still has yet to score a TD.

So, if people want to compare him to MW, then they can ONLY go off of what has been done by each TO DATE.

Looking at the numbers THUS FAR, they are both busts if you want to just use the available information. For all of the hype that Bush received, I honestly expected more out of him. MW isn't the one expected to score TD's and rack up the yardage. He's expected to create havoc on defense.

Neither has lived up to expectations TO THIS POINT. But, it's still early. We've seen PLENTY of "can't miss" draftees totally miss.

Both will probably turn out fine.

 

[scottsp]

Fair enough, Jim. Statistically, he's not been terribly impressive. However, I would argue that in watching both New Orleans' games to date, Bush is incredibly valuable to what they do. They have him lining up all over the place. And to watch defensive personnel respond when he goes into motion. It's damn near a mad scramble.

Bush certainly generates concern when he is on the field. While he has yet to break out himself, he has definitely impacted their offense. They can basically play pitch and catch so long as Brees has time.

Back to this defensive end vs. running back debate...

Who doesn't love a great runner? A great player of any kind is not easy to find. Hell, an outstanding kicker. Tough to get.

But running games today are more a product of what is around the runner than the actual talent of the running back. See offensive line. See the weaponry flanking a runner.

Arizona can bring Jim Brown in there and until certain matters up front are addressed, he will not be averaging 5.2 per rush - as he did for his career. Or whoever.

An immense pass rushing talent, however, will find his way to the passer. An offense may try and counter that by helping out, max protecting/sending a limited number of receivers into the pattern. And that defensive end will still impact the game.

That is why this is an easy choice for me.