Office Debate I had (stud DE or stud RB)

[kartr]

I wouldn't eliminate option #2, though I will admit picking Young would probably accomplish the same thing picking Bush would do which is to placate the fans. A QB has to produce in order to "make the OL better." That would still be a roll of the dice. I don't think them giving up on Carr was a good solution, thus I would have focused on fixing the OL over drafting a DE. D'Brickashaw Ferguson was IMO the best player in the draft and filled a definite need for the Texans. He is the only player whom I would have taken ahead of Bush. They blew it unless Mario turns it around.

We'll see, but Mario has only played 2 games, and he can't do it by himself. Vince Young is raw, but very talented. Carr has had every chance to prove himself and is still using the OL excuse as to why he hasn't succeeded. He still throws the ball up for grabs when under pressure and it has been said by people close to organization, he just doesn't see the field very well, and after his 4th year at that.

 

[Doomsday101]

The Eagles don't have a franchise rb, nor did 9'ers or Pats when they won there first superbowls, but they did have top notch defensive lines, especially pass rushers.Who was the Steelers franchise backs last year when they beat the 'Hawks, who did have a franchise back.

I'm not saying defense is not important and your right WCO is not reliant on big time RB they use the short passing game to off set it. However a DE is not going to turn a franchise around as quickly as an elite RB. I have seen too many teams go from the bottom to the top very shortly with the addition of a great RB. I'm not going to belittle the importance of DE but by the same token there are plenty of examples of great RB leading their teams to become true contenders.

 

[kartr]

He's already more respected and dangerous than Westbrook has ever been.

Bush's respect comes from the media hype infatuation with USC program. He hasn't proved himself anymore than Mario Williams yet and it is joke to compare a 2 game rookie with a proven NFL vet.

 

[joseephuss]

Bush's respect comes from the media hype infatuation with USC program. He hasn't proved himself anymore than Mario Williams yet and it is joke to compare a 2 game rookie with a proven NFL vet.

It is a bit of a joke to judge either Williams or Bush after two games. I will gladly make that joke.

 

[Common Sense]

Mario Williams won't even be the best DE from this draft class when it's all over.

 

[kartr]

That is why I think their best move was to trade down. Maybe they tried and could not get it done. I think they should have tried harder. They could have gained some picks and then took someone like Marcus McNeil in the 2nd round plus other guys that might help their offensive line. White would have been a horrible pick in the 1st round especially early. If they were able to trade down, then he would have been good in the early 2nd for them.

I agree that trading down would have helped them more, but again, you can't make people give up their draft picks. Most teams are too smart for that. Remember, Butch Davis and Dave Wannstedt are no longer NFL head coaches.

 

[joseephuss]

Mario Williams won't even be the best DE from this draft class when it's all over.

Who will be?

 

[Hostile]

We'll see, but Mario has only played 2 games, and he can't do it by himself. Vince Young is raw, but very talented. Carr has had every chance to prove himself and is still using the OL excuse as to why he hasn't succeeded. He still throws the ball up for grabs when under pressure and it has been said by people close to organization, he just doesn't see the field very well, and after his 4th year at that.

I didn't throw Mario under the bus so forget that point. It isn't even about the thread topic anyway. Just another useless tangent.

If you have the overall #1 you take the consensus best player on the board or you trade the pick. It's really just that simple. They blew it.

Taking Young would have made some fans happy and it would have sold tickets, but if they were truly trying to get better it would have been the wrong move. Just as passing on Bush was the wrong move.

Mario Williams now has to be the next Julius Peppers or the Houston fans will talk about him the same way Dallas fans do about Moss and Ellis. It was a lose/lose situation for them to take him.

This is the Traiblazers passing on Jordan for Sam Bowie.

 

[joseephuss]

I agree that trading down would have helped them more, but again, you can't make people give up their draft picks. Most teams are too smart for that. Remember, Butch Davis and Dave Wannstedt are no longer NFL head coaches.

You mean Mike Ditka. Plus Joe Gibbs is still around.

Having the #1 over all pick isn't as great a spot as it used to be. Especially last year. I thought it was a very difficult draft to evaluate. No way I pick Lendale White in the top 10. I didn't think many guys were truly worthy of a #1, but between Williams and Bush, I have to go with Bush.

 

[Hostile]

Bush's respect comes from the media hype infatuation with USC program. He hasn't proved himself anymore than Mario Williams yet and it is joke to compare a 2 game rookie with a proven NFL vet.

No it doesn't. Are you for real? No one can be that dense.

Here's a test, go to any fan forum and ask who they'd rather have Westbrook or Bush. Do the same for NFL GMs.

When you get your results come back here and try and spin control those results into your argument. Let's see how much silk worm you've got in you.

last thing, it isn't about him proving it more than Mario Williams. He doesn't have to. That's the point which seems to have gone right over your head.

 

[J-DOG]

I had an interesting office debate with some other Cowboy fans the other day, and it had to do with surprise surprise, Mario Williams and Reggie Bush. My opinion was I had no problem with what the Texans did and another guy said they made a huge mistake.

Anyway, the real debate came when we talked about what position was more valuable, RB or DE. We chose a player that we felt was probably the best at his position all time for RB and DE. We just said Walter Payton and Reggie White are sitting there in the Draft. Dont get too caught up in the names above, if you want just substitute someone who you think is the greatest RB and the greatest DE and figure who you would pick.

I said I would go with Reggie White over Walter Payton. No disrespect to Mr. Payton, but I just value one of the Greatest DEs over one of the Greatest RBs ever. I would rather build my defense up and then work on my offense (of course I would get a QB first but after that mostly defense)

Thoughs?

I see the Texans making a huge mistake with taking Mario Williams over Reggie Bush.
You gotta remember that Mario Williams was labeled with the tag of not playing hard all the time prior to the draft. Bush was the Heisman winner and his speed and heart were never questioned.
The Texans taking Williams over Bush just showed that they are the Texans....and always will be.
As far as White over Payton....tough one. Probably White, but just because great defensive players like that are harder to find in my opinion.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Gotta go with the general sentiment here....

Reggie White vs. Walter Payton, it's White any day of the year.

But Mario Williams vs. Reggie Bush, gotta go with Bush. Especially in an offense that already has the passing game set and probably needs an elusive freak like Bush with their offensive line problems. Barry Sanders didn't need a hole, Bush doesn't either. There are so many ways you can use Bush, he's a threat at wideout, in the return game, I just don't see how you can pass up a guy like that for a potentially good defensive end, but not a guy that shows the same type of dominance that Reggie White or another legendary defensive end possessed.

My only problem with Bush is his size. He may not be a guy who can take the NFL pounding. They compare him to Gale Sayers. Well, Sayers didn't have much of a healthy career.

 

[jem88]

I learn towards taking the DE over the RB if both are of a comparable talent level; so far it would be appear that Williams and Bush are not at the same level, but it's probably too early too tell. Blue chip DE's are hard to find. Makes you realize how lucky we were to have Haley (and Tolbert for that matter.)

 

[FLcowboy]

I had an interesting office debate with some other Cowboy fans the other day, and it had to do with surprise surprise, Mario Williams and Reggie Bush. My opinion was I had no problem with what the Texans did and another guy said they made a huge mistake.

Anyway, the real debate came when we talked about what position was more valuable, RB or DE. We chose a player that we felt was probably the best at his position all time for RB and DE. We just said Walter Payton and Reggie White are sitting there in the Draft. Dont get too caught up in the names above, if you want just substitute someone who you think is the greatest RB and the greatest DE and figure who you would pick.

I said I would go with Reggie White over Walter Payton. No disrespect to Mr. Payton, but I just value one of the Greatest DEs over one of the Greatest RBs ever. I would rather build my defense up and then work on my offense (of course I would get a QB first but after that mostly defense)

Thoughs?

Sorry, but a RB scores touchdowns from anywhere on the field. A DE scores very few times, and while he can put the RB in great field position to score easily, and can sometimes keep the score lower, thus allowing fewer points by the offense to win games, the RB is by far a more valuable asset to the team.

 

[Tobal]

The only issue I have with the Texans taking Williams is he that good?

I'd take Julius Peppers over Bush.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I saw Reggie White get dominated several times one on one by both Erik Williams. That Thanksgiving game highlight of the one play White throws Allen around and then sacks Jason Garrett was the only play Reggie made in that game. The rest of the time, the small college, rookie Larry dominated Reggie and Garrett had all day long to throw and accumulate over 300 yards.

Larry Allen was heavily recruited by several big name colleges and his particular choice was USC but he didnt have the grades.

HOF vs HOF

- Mike G.

 

[Tobal]

I didn't throw Mario under the bus so forget that point. It isn't even about the thread topic anyway. Just another useless tangent.

If you have the overall #1 you take the consensus best player on the board or you trade the pick. It's really just that simple. They blew it.

Taking Young would have made some fans happy and it would have sold tickets, but if they were truly trying to get better it would have been the wrong move. Just as passing on Bush was the wrong move.

Mario Williams now has to be the next Julius Peppers or the Houston fans will talk about him the same way Dallas fans do about Moss and Ellis. It was a lose/lose situation for them to take him.

This is the Traiblazers passing on Jordan for Sam Bowie.

You know someone else was taken ahead of Jordan that yr also, but people only mention Bowie. Bowie was a bust it's way to early to label Williams a bust and you know that.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

Sorry, but a RB scores touchdowns from anywhere on the field. A DE scores very few times, and while he can put the RB in great field position to score easily, and can sometimes keep the score lower, thus allowing fewer points by the offense to win games, the RB is by far a more valuable asset to the team.

Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Carl Eller, Jack Youngblood, Mike Strahan etc etc is gonna help keep the opposition from scoring.

- Mike G.

 

[Hostile]

You know someone else was taken ahead of Jordan that yr also, but people only mention Bowie. Bowie was a bust it's way to early to label Williams a bust and you know that.

Yes, but Olajuwon wasn't the bust, Bowie was.

I think Mario will likely be fine, but he's going to be measured against everything Bush does and that isn't a position I'd want to be in unless I could replicate Julius Peppers kind of play.

 

[Cochese]

Yes, but Olajuwon wasn't the bust, Bowie was.

I think Mario will likely be fine, but he's going to be measured against everything Bush does and that isn't a position I'd want to be in unless I could replicate Julius Peppers kind of play.

No matter what Mario isnt in a good position, hell he was BOO'ed by his OWN fans on draft day. Unless he is Reggie Whites ghost, what he does will never be good enough for them.