Official: Cutler to Bears per NFLN...*Two 1sts and a 3rd*

[MrMom]

Cutler, Ron Turner Have Rocky History
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 3, 2009, 12:47 p.m.

Newly-acquired Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is known for holding a grudge, and he still seems to be holding one against Bears offensive coordinator Ron Turner stemming from an old recruiting dispute, according to Brad Biggs of the Chicago Sun-Times.

Citing people close to Cutler and a Denver Post column, some fences may need to be mended between Cutler and Turner now that they’re going to work together.

As a high school senior in southern Indiana, Cutler accepted a scholarship to Illinois where Turner was the head coach at the time. Cutler committed without visiting campus, though, and when he arrived for an official visit Turner reportedly pulled the offer.

“When Jay went for his official visit, the coach told him they were rescinding the offer because they had some hot-shot quarterback from California,” Heritage Hills athletic director Jay Burch told Denver Post columnist Woody Paige.

Illinois wound up signing Mike Dlugolecki, who wound up transferring to San Diego State. And Cutler had turned down offers from Purdue, Duke and Maryland to go to Illinois before winding up at Vanderbilt.

“It’s not right,” Jake Cutler, Cutler’s father, told ESPN.com. “I still have a bitter taste in my mouth.”

In the past, Turner has denied that Illinois rescinded the scholarship offer because Cutler was never made an offer.

Obviously, they’ll need to rehearse their lines a bit before the press conference today.

Haha. This should be fun.

 

[Randy White]

Tom Brady's injured knee is telling you why he isn't worth 2 of them. .

His 3 Superbowl rings, 26,446 yards, 197 TDs in barely 7 seasons worth of games tells you why he is..

Probably more than that too..

 

[Skinsmaniac]

I think people are focusing on the draft picks (for good reason) but you have to consider Kyle Orton as well. If the Broncos feel that they can develop him into a QB good enough to lead the talent they surround him with these picks, then they made a good trade. If they are relying on finding a QB to compete with him with one of the picks they got, then they are in trouble. I think this was a good deal for Chicago, and for Denver it depends on Orton.

 

[JPM]

Translation: I'll suck up to my New England- and Bill Belichick-associated guy Josh McDaniels even though he's never coached a game in this league rather than the surfer-looking Vanderbilt kid I don't know.

King's knees gotta hurt with all the love he gives the Pats. When does softball season start ?

 

[Randy White]

No you don't. Our Dallas Cowboys are the example why.

You trade away those picks for an immediate return and find out it takes a good deal more than talent to win a Super Bowl but once a little time passes that lack of picks means you are destined to suck for a long time.

The Denver Broncos are the exact opposite, see the John Elway trade.

You NEVER say NEVER to any scenario where it can make your team better and our Dallas Cowboys are a perfect example of that.

But it is much harder to fault teams for doing it with a proven QB. Cutler hasn't proven anything except he likes to drink, has a fragile ego and will go T.O. on mgmt

.

I don't know if you haven't caught up, but I wasn't refering to the Cutler trade. I was refering about the notion that no player is worth 2 #1 picks.

I happen to think that this deal works for both teams. The Bears got a potential franchise QB, something they haven't had in my lifetime ( and I'm approaching the big 4-0 ) and even a lifetime before mine. They had to give up a ransom for him, but that's the price you have to pay when you want something of Cutler's value.

Having said that, and this is in no way to diminish what Broncos got, exactly what did the Bears gave up in terms of picks ? The 18th pick in a draft that does NOT have a concensous " franchise " player, and a future #1 pick, who unless a complete collapse happens ( which is possible, but not probable ) would more than likely be lower.

Now, put yourself in the Bears situation and ask yourself what are the odds of finding a player of Cutler's potential with either of those picks ? The answer should be: very, very, VERY low. So what's more valuable to them ? two mid to late #1 picks or a potential franchise QB that you don't have to worry about for the next 10 years ?

On the other side, it was a good deal for the Broncos because they get rid of a player who obviously did NOT want to be part of the organization anymore, got two extra #1 picks, a starting QB in Norton ( who I think could be a sleeper because of the system ), and an extra 3rd round pick, which " could " be the key for the rebuilding of the franchise.

It's a risk-risk, win-win situation for both.

 

[AKATheRake]

If Chicago goes after Tory Holt now and gets them they are my pick to represent the NFC in the Superbowl. Lovie is a hell of a coach and that defense when healthy is capable of being the best in the league.

Forte is a serious bell ringer back who can handle 25-30 touches a game. Greg Olsen is a hell of a TE. Devin Hester is becoming a good WR and is definitely a very good #2 WR with serious game breaking potential. Torry Holt would be that solidified #1. Their line is solid and the Pace still can play health permitting.

Cutler would have every option and resource to be successful and to boot the Bears special teams is 2nd to none. Talk about a 3 headed monster this team could become. They get Holt and they're my NFC favorite and maybe SB favorite. The coaching, the defense, the offense, special teams, leadership and SB experience would be there.

 

[AKATheRake]

I think people are focusing on the draft picks (for good reason) but you have to consider Kyle Orton as well. If the Broncos feel that they can develop him into a QB good enough to lead the talent they surround him with these picks, then they made a good trade. If they are relying on finding a QB to compete with him with one of the picks they got, then they are in trouble. I think this was a good deal for Chicago, and for Denver it depends on Orton.

This worked out for both teams. Chicago's window of opportunity to win a championship is now. They get Holt and they are going to smash teams around in all facets. Offensively, defensively and special teams.

The Broncos will get Sanchez in the draft, Kyle Orton is the perfect backup QB who can help Sanchez ease in at the right time like Plummer did with Cutler. Sanchez will have a better NFL career than Stafford. Denver has WR's he can throw too and the draft picks to get their running game going again and build up their defense.

I hope we go after Holt. That's all I'm saying for us.

 

[jterrell]

His 3 Superbowl rings, 26,446 yards, 197 TDs in barely 7 seasons worth of games tells you why he is..

Probably more than that too..

Unfortunately nothing you have done in the past means squat going forward.

How did Emmitt do in Arizona?

No matter how good a player he is an injury risk which is why you do not offer too much for them. It is why the Joey Galloway trade backfired, why so many trades stink.

Without going back beyond 1980 exactly how many QBs have changed teams after 3 years and then been worth 2 1st round picks??

Did Bledsoe to Buffalo work out? Favre to the Jets? Most QBs are just plain overrated. They cost too much to trade for and it's generally stupid to trade for a guy like Cutler whose perception exceeds his performance.

Chicago will likely have a new coach and GM in the near future and this will be the root cause. If they do not win 10 games next and miss the playoffs think of the backlash... no young talent to build around and a mediocre team. They'd be Denver prior to the Cutler trade.

On the other hand, McDaniels gets all these draft picks to work into his system and expectations are that they are rebuilding so he gets a break if they win 8 games(even in a powder puff division) it is considered a good season.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

That is completely inaccurate.

David Carr had a very strong arm and was very mobile.

He was an easy selection as #1 overall when he came out. But he went to a crap team, got beat up behind the worst line in the league and fell apart mentally.

His throwing motion is what makes him look very woman like.

 

[jterrell]

The Denver Broncos are the exact opposite, see the John Elway trade.

You NEVER say NEVER to any scenario where it can make your team better and our Dallas Cowboys are a perfect example of that.

.

I don't know if you haven't caught up, but I wasn't refering to the Cutler trade. I was refering about the notion that no player is worth 2 #1 picks.

I happen to think that this deal works for both teams. The Bears got a potential franchise QB, something they haven't had in my lifetime ( and I'm approaching the big 4-0 ) and even a lifetime before mine. They had to give up a ransom for him, but that's the price you have to pay when you want something of Cutler's value.

Having said that, and this is in no way to diminish what Broncos got, exactly what did the Bears gave up in terms of picks ? The 18th pick in a draft that does NOT have a concensous " franchise " player, and a future #1 pick, who unless a complete collapse happens ( which is possible, but not probable ) would more than likely be lower.

Now, put yourself in the Bears situation and ask yourself what are the odds of finding a player of Cutler's potential with either of those picks ? The answer should be: very, very, VERY low. So what's more valuable to them ? two mid to late #1 picks or a potential franchise QB that you don't have to worry about for the next 10 years ?

On the other side, it was a good deal for the Broncos because they get rid of a player who obviously did NOT want to be part of the organization anymore, got two extra #1 picks, a starting QB in Norton ( who I think could be a sleeper because of the system ), and an extra 3rd round pick, which " could " be the key for the rebuilding of the franchise.

It's a risk-risk, win-win situation for both.

I do hear what you are saying but there are reasons why no team should trade two r1 picks. Essentially that reason is long term is costs too much. You need those first round picks to replenish talent yearly. And if you have 0 talent out of 2 first rounds you are really in a bad way. See Dallas late 90's drafts as examples.

The Elway example is a bad one because he was a #1 draft pick. He wasn't a vet player. Trading two r1s for 1 r1(that is much higher) is not exactly the same thing. But even more Elway didn't draw two r1's. He drew 1 and a couple of players.

It is about the overall team equation and how you balance it.

Dallas trading for Galloway was dumb but there was reason behind it. The team was a borderline challenger and a speed WR addressed a lot of wrongs. But giving up those picks just meant another 3 years of suckitude once the trade didn't work.

No one player carries a team. Not a single guy on the planet. As good as Tom Brady is the team went 11-5 with a guy who hadn't played football since high school filling in.

Cutler, again, is an example here. He was a Pro Bowler and one of the 6 to 8 guys considered franchise QBs but he hasn't been in a playoff game yet.

And I know you aren't just harping on this trade but I can't get away form t because I think it is insanely one-sided. Like career-endingly one-sided.

QB is important and you have to find one but it is still the ultimate team sport. This isn't basketball where 1 star carries teams.

Not only that but what makes it so absurd is locations. Denver is one of the easiest places for a Qb to play. From Plummer to Griese to Frerotte these guys had career years in the friendly confines of that thin air. Now you take the guy and put him int he exact opposite. In the bitter, windy Chi-town and wow. Is this the guy to play Jim McMahon football?

And more, this guy has drinking and attitude concerns that would cause him to fall in a draft. So you are taking a ton of risks and offering up your future to spin the wheel.

Joe Flacco and Matt Ryan both made the playoff last year as rookie QBs.
There are two guys in this draft lcass that have won everywhere they have beena nd rate as first rounders in Sanchez and Stafford. Matt Vick is about to be a street free agent. There are ways to find a QB without paying a fortune.

Arizona signed Warner as a stop-gap, Pittsburgh drafted a guy who fit their style of play and city, Dallas and NE found their guys as after-thoughts of a draft class.

Going out and paying two 1st round picks(not to mention the addl 3rd) for a vet player is lot like coveting some other guy's wife then not paying attention when he is willing to give her to you. 5 years later you have the credit card debt and he's vacationing in the tropics and dating island beauties.

 

[jterrell]

His throwing motion is what makes him look very woman like.

So what? Cutler has been crying like one all off-season.

 

[Randy White]

Unfortunately nothing you have done in the past means squat going forward. How did Emmitt do in Arizona?

Are you seriously comparing the best QB in the NFL, in the middle of his prime, to a RB who was in the last 2 years of his career ?

No matter how good a player he is an injury risk which is why you do not offer too much for them. It is why the Joey Galloway trade backfired, why so many trades stink. Without going back beyond 1980 exactly how many QBs have changed teams after 3 years and then been worth 2 1st round picks??

A) EVERY player is an injury risk. There isn't a single football player in the world who isn't. If injury risk was a factor ( on an otherwise healthy player, like Cutler is ), no trade would ever happen, or anybody get drafted.

B) Using those parameters, and without going back, I can't think of any. Then again, I can't think of any QB with Cutler's potential who was available for trade after 3 years.

Did Bledsoe to Buffalo work out? Favre to the Jets? Most QBs are just plain overrated. They cost too much to trade for and it's generally stupid to trade for a guy like Cutler whose perception exceeds his performance.

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. Bledsoe was in his 10th season when he was traded to Buffalo. Brett Favre, literally, came out of retirement.

Was Favre worth the #1 pick the Packers gave to Atlanta back in '92 ? They'd not only say yes, they'd give up twice, three times as many picks for him if they had to do it all over again. As a matter of fact, Favre wouldn't have been available, if the Falcons had to do it all over again. They would have gotten rid of the #1 pick of the draft ( Jeff George ) and kept Favre, who was a 2nd round pick.

Chicago will likely have a new coach and GM in the near future and this will be the root cause. If they do not win 10 games next and miss the playoffs think of the backlash... no young talent to build around and a mediocre team. They'd be Denver prior to the Cutler trade.

Maybe. Both Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo are under pressure to win now.

Then again, this same, exact scenario could happen without the trade. Some say the chances of your scenario happening decrease WITH Cutler more than it would without him.

On the other hand, McDaniels gets all these draft picks to work into his system and expectations are that they are rebuilding so he gets a break if they win 8 games(even in a powder puff division) it is considered a good season.

And if the picks don't work ( and just take a look at Denver's recent draft history for reference ), he just gave up a potential franchise QB for nothing.

That's why is a risk-risk, win-win situation for both.

 

[Randy White]

I do hear what you are saying but there are reasons why no team should trade two r1 picks. Essentially that reason is long term is costs too much. You need those first round picks to replenish talent yearly. And if you have 0 talent out of 2 first rounds you are really in a bad way. See Dallas late 90's drafts as examples.

You're helping my point when you're bring out the Dallas' drafts of the '90's. Everything from 1992 an on was next to pathetic. #1 draft picks are important, but they're not the holy grail. It's not just having them, but knowing what to do with them and that involves ALOT of guess work, which is just as risky, if not riskier, than trading them.

Let's go a step further and analyse the Joey Galloway trade itself. Who did the Seahawks drafted with those picks ? Shawn Alexander with the 20th pick in '00 ( somebody who the Cowboys wouldn't have drafted because of Emmitt ) and Koren Robinson with the 9th pick in the '01 draft, somebody who WE wouldn't have wished the Cowboys had drafted period.

Now, it's fair to point out that the Cowboys might have made different decisions with those picks ( it's obvious with Alexander ), but that still wouldn't have guaranteed those players would have had any impact.

Hell, just judging by who the Cowboys drafted in those drafts with the picks they had, one could come to the conclusion that they would have probably blown them anyways.

The Elway example is a bad one because he was a #1 draft pick. He wasn't a vet player. Trading two r1s for 1 r1(that is much higher) is not exactly the same thing. But even more Elway didn't draw two r1's. He drew 1 and a couple of players.

Elway was traded for TWO #1 picks, the 4th pick in the '83 draft ( same draft as Elway ), who turned out to be Chris Hinton, a #1 pick in the '84 draft:

The Colts trade the rights to Elway to the Denver Broncos for QB Mark Herrmann, the rights to OL Chris Hinton and a first-round pick in the 1984 draft.

It is about the overall team equation and how you balance it.

That's exactly my point. Nothing is ever black and white.

Dallas trading for Galloway was dumb but there was reason behind it. The team was a borderline challenger and a speed WR addressed a lot of wrongs. But giving up those picks just meant another 3 years of suckitude once the trade didn't work.

I completely agree.

No one player carries a team. Not a single guy on the planet. As good as Tom Brady is the team went 11-5 with a guy who hadn't played football since high school filling in.

I agree with that too. Having said that, talented players like Brady don't come around very often, and when they do, and it makes sense for your team, you go get them, even if you have to pay a high price because the currency you're really paying is " potential ", which, as we all know, all it means is: " you ain't done it yet ".

 

[jterrell]

see above so as to not make these posts a page each

Tom Brady is entering his 10th NFL season. He is coming off a very serious injury plus a year out of football.

But if a guy was worth the risk he is about the only one.

Chicago won 13 games just 3 years ago and had a great playoff run with Rex Grossman at QB. They got worse around the QB. Upgrading at QB doesn't help them anywhere else because they don't have much WR talent. They needed to use and hit on those 1st round picks not give them away because Cutler is prettier as the face of the franchise. The Bears defense has struggled as much as the offense recently.

If a team can't draft there is no help for them. If the Bengals hit like they did on Carson Palmer but keep drafting thugs and can't plays around him it is pointless.

There is a reason the cost to sign a franchise player is two r1's. It is the ultimate cost for a single player and it's also why almost no franchise player gets signed without a trade reducing that cost.

If the Pack had made the exact same trade as Chicago they would have given up Robert Brooks, Wayne Simmons and Terrell Buckley for Favre. That deal would have been worth it but only because Favre panned out as well as any Qb ever going into the hall of fame. At the same time all 3 of those guys started a number of games for the Pack and Robert Brooks was for a time Favre's leading WR having one of the best seasons ever by a WR in 1995. So you remove those guys and all of a sudden Favre does not look to be quite as good a player. Instead they offered up only #19 which was the lower of their two 1st rounders for Favre and Brett got to play with all those guys and the Pack wasn't talent starved when or shortly thereafter he showed up.

 

[Rampage]

http://i80.***BLOCKED***/albums/j181/jwhitt34036/motivator1230347.jpg

 

[jterrell]

RW: The thing is this. Yes the trade can work for a team trading two r1 guys provided a player is a Hall of Famer who plays most of his career for the team trading for him.

Since that is a 1 in 100 scenario out of even r1 QBs there is no way I'd ever gamble on that happening.

You keep saying it is risk/risk but I do not think there is any risk whatsoever for the Broncos. Even if Cutler goes onto the Hall of Fame the Broncos got a ridiculously good package for a guy who was forcing his way out of town.

This is an easy win for the Broncs. Again they are not going to be much worse than a 9 win team this year provided they don't just blow the draft. They add two starters and plug in Orton who will merely have to beat out Simms and they are a 7 win team at worst in that division. That's an awful small price to pay for an extra first round pick that could be quite high. Chicago on paper has a Qb but no real WRs and and a weak defense with no ammo to reload in the draft.

 

[Bleu Star]

Cutler, Ron Turner Have Rocky History
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 3, 2009, 12:47 p.m.

Newly-acquired Chicago Bears quarterback Jay Cutler is known for holding a grudge, and he still seems to be holding one against Bears offensive coordinator Ron Turner stemming from an old recruiting dispute, according to Brad Biggs of the Chicago Sun-Times.

Citing people close to Cutler and a Denver Post column, some fences may need to be mended between Cutler and Turner now that they’re going to work together.

As a high school senior in southern Indiana, Cutler accepted a scholarship to Illinois where Turner was the head coach at the time. Cutler committed without visiting campus, though, and when he arrived for an official visit Turner reportedly pulled the offer.

“When Jay went for his official visit, the coach told him they were rescinding the offer because they had some hot-shot quarterback from California,” Heritage Hills athletic director Jay Burch told Denver Post columnist Woody Paige.

Illinois wound up signing Mike Dlugolecki, who wound up transferring to San Diego State. And Cutler had turned down offers from Purdue, Duke and Maryland to go to Illinois before winding up at Vanderbilt.

“It’s not right,” Jake Cutler, Cutler’s father, told ESPN.com. “I still have a bitter taste in my mouth.”

In the past, Turner has denied that Illinois rescinded the scholarship offer because Cutler was never made an offer.

Obviously, they’ll need to rehearse their lines a bit before the press conference today.

I think Josh McDaniel was the lesser of two evils.

 

[CF74]

Phil Simms talks about the Jay Cutler trade

By monstersofthemidwayillustrated

Beginning our extended wall to wall coverage of the Jay Cutler trade and getting expert opinion and analysis on the trade and it’s impact. We’ll gather opinions from around the league and multiple media sources and compile them all into this blog.
The first bit of information we get is from one of the most respected analysts in the league and on TV. Former New York Giants and CBS analyst Phil Simms. If anyone is going to give a fair assessment it will be Simms because he’s covered AFC games for CBS for quite a number of years now. Simms has seen Cutler first hand and dealt with the Broncos and Mike Shannahan .
Simms felt after seeing Cutler at Vanderbilt that he was the best player available in the draft. He still wonders to this day why people even argue this point between Leinart, Young and Cutler, because Cutler clearly had all the tools. Cutler has proven himself behind two QBs who came from two bigger programs and had a ton more respect coming out of college. Not coincidentally though the NFL always has a way of evening things out.
Simms brought up what has been talked about regarding Cutler’s nimbleness in the pocket, his athletic ability to extend the play and then how great he is at throwing on the run. This is one of Cutler’s advantages is that with his arm strength he can still make throws while on the run, he doesn’t need to reset his feet and then throw he can just flick his wrist to a receiver who make deek a CB who has his eyes on Cutler and then get open. This will be specifically beneficial to Devin Hester who will be able to use his speed and elusiveness to get open down the field if Cutler is flushed from the pocket.
Simms talked about how Cutler led a great offense with an awful defense and helped his team be successful. The offense the Broncos had was second in the league and none of that was a result of pure passing. Cutler’s passing helped by the running game was still averaging 4.5 yards a rush. When the Broncos’ defense gave up less than 21 points per game Cutler was 13-1 as the starter, and the Bears defense for all it’s shortcomings gave up less than 21 points eight times last season, translating to what would be eight wins for the Bears. From there that would translate to eight likely victories with Cutler possible pushing the Bears over the top in two to four more games, giving the Bears at least a Wild Card berth.
While Simms has not seen a lot of the Bears’ games (covering the AFC) the game he has seen he felt that the offense usually played well enough to win, but that it was the defense that struggled. Most Bears fans would agree with that assessment about the defense which struggled while on the field in pre-season too.
Simms went on to talk about whether or not his attitude would effect things coming into the Chicago Bears. All the drama coming from Denver to Chicago and the two week long soap opera, and Simms was just as adamant about Cutler’s make up as he was his talent. Simms stated that he was still on the Cutler band wagon and that this was a great trade for the Bears. He didn’t understand why anyone would give up a franchise QB. You draft a guy like Mathew Stafford, in hopes that he BECOMES Jay Cutler. Well with Cutler you already have a proven product, and talent. That proven commodity that you hope you get when you draft. Plus you look at the hit and miss parts of first round draft picks and it really opens your eyes.
Simms brought up his conversations with Mike Shannahan and Shannahan never had anything bad to say about his QB. He never had a private conversation that said something like “well yeah he’s a great talent, great arm, good production, but he’s not a leader or a team guy. None of the coaches in Denver, none of the players ever had anything bad to say about Cutler. He was the type of professional you want your QB to be, a leader who doesn’t flinch in the face of pressure.
Simms then went on to speak of his experience of playing under Bill Parcell’s who said essentially you don’t have to be liked by everyone on the team. You don’t have to get along with everyone, your job is not to be the popular guy on the team and even if you try hard not everyone is going to like you. Your job is to be a leader of men and a leader on the field and Simms feels that Cutler has that.
Beyond the overall trade Simms spoke about the new dimension to the Bears offense Cutler brings. The play calling will change, the play design will change the receivers’ production will improve. Different scenarios will be handled better, and there will be a more open play book for the Bears to run. If the defense gets back to being extraordinary the Bears could go far into the playoffs. He already feels they are a playoff team (they were one game away from the playoffs last year).
Simms was also excited about Jerry Angelo and his statement that “if we were going to get into the Jay Cutler trade talks, we were in it to win it.” Angelo became adamant about getting a deal done and not letting this one pass him by. It’s one of the most unique situations in the history of the league when you have a franchise QB entering the prime of his career likely to be a multi-year Pro Bowl selection. Cutler is a proven QB and Simms felt that it’s going to work out great for the Bears and he didn’t really speak to any negatives coming in this deal.
It’s truly hard to argue with Simms’ assessment and I for one have a lot of respect for Simms as an analyst who does his homework knows his stuff and doesn’t run his mouth for the sake of having an opinion. The most important aspect is there is no guarantee the Bears were going to be able to get a great player from their next two draft picks.
You can find successful players in free agency and in the second to fifth rounds of the draft. Angelo has done this time and time again and has built a successful team around it. Plus with 2010 likely to be a non salary cap year the Bears could really be in a position to add to their franchise and solidify it for the next decade. We can sit here and look back at the first month of free agency (it was exactly a month of free agency before the trade happened) and be critical about Omiyale, Bullocks and Shaffer. But the bottom line is Jerry Angelo just made a move that instantly improves the Chicago Bears. He made a bold move that may go down as the most impressive trade in the history of the league.