Oh the humanity!

[Bob Sacamano]

Summer, that is not what this thread was even about. Go back and read the first post. I haven't made one single argument in favor of Turner in this thread.

This thread was about all the moaning and groaning that is flying around from a thousand different directions. We have had every coaching name from here to Oklahoma thrown out as THE ANSWER.

I happen to think that Turner will do a good job. I have reasons that I think this, and I've listed them in other threads, and have no desire to repeat them.

I've come to the realization that we are all venting anyway. It's not our team. It's Jerry's team. We just get to watch and pay good money to do so.

ok, ok, let's hire Vanilla Ice to be our HC

he's not Parcells right?

 

[rcaldw]

Don't know about Rivera, but there is plenty of evidence being summarily ignored that Norv does, indeed, suck.

I would categorize those who are saying "But this time he won't!" as more the ones predicting a future based on nothing in particular.

And those who would have read the "tea leaves" based upon the past with Parcells would have been wrong too. They would have had us in the Super Bowl, not four years later without a single playoff win.

Fact is:

Who predicted the kind of success that Payton had at New Orleans on this board? Name one.

And NO, I don't want to hear the differences between Payton and Turner. I'm not even comparing the two. I'm making a simple, straightforward point.

None of us knows the future. Not one.

What I do know is that I'm ready for us to be a SERIOUS contender again. A team that wins year in and year out.

I hope Jerry finds that formula and if he does, I won't care if the next coach is named Wiledog.

 

[rcaldw]

ok, ok, let's hire Vanilla Ice to be our HC

he's not Parcells right?

Yep, you have understood me perfectly. Man, finally I feel like someone "gets" where I'm coming from. Just anybody but Parcells.

How can people read this far into a thread and miss another person's point by a trip to the moon?

 

[wileedog]

And those who would have read the "tea leaves" based upon the past with Parcells would have been wrong too. They would have had us in the Super Bowl, not four years later without a single playoff win.

Fact is:

Who predicted the kind of success that Payton had at New Orleans on this board? Name one.

And NO, I don't want to hear the differences between Payton and Turner. I'm not even comparing the two. I'm making a simple, straightforward point.

None of us knows the future. Not one.

What I do know is that I'm ready for us to be a SERIOUS contender again. A team that wins year in and year out.

I hope Jerry finds that formula and if he does, I won't care if the next coach is named Wiledog.

Nobody knows the future, but if I go to the racetrack I don't pick the horses name out of a hat either.

Absolutely true, Norv could get hired and take the team to a Superbowl. It is certainly not out of any realm of possibility. Heck, if he's hired I will be rooting very hard for that to happen.

However based on his track record, his skill set and what some of us feel this team really needs and how Norv doesn't address those needs, I think that the odds of that happening are less likely than with some other paths we can take.

Heck, even a complete unknown like Rivera at least offers potential - in other words he hasn't actually shown a propensity to fail as a HC, so at worse its a shot in the dark, and its not depending on a coach who has muddled through 130+ career games to change his stripes.

I'll give Norv a better chance to succeed as HC than me though, if that will make you feel better.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Really? Go back to post #1 and show me where I wanted change just for the sake of change? Can you do it? Can you go back through this entire thread and show me where I said that?

Or are you attempting to, uh oh, "PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH"??????


Is this kettle getting a message from pot?

Seriously though

I want change ABQ. I want change not just for the sake of change. I want change because we had an old, tired coach who wasn't doing a good job of coaching.

I'll tell you again, I won't take great issue with your point that the talent is upgraded. I think you made some very good points about that in your last point. My point is that better talent should get better results. It hasn't. Losing 4 of 5 isn't a good result. Spin it any way you want, the loss to the Lions was simply inexcusible.

Don't tell me, let me guess. It's ok when you do it but not nearly as neat when it's done to you? Amazing how that works isn't it.

Go back and review the thread and you will see where I made the statement and asked the original poster, "Change for the sake of change" so to speak. I acknowledge the fact that it was not addressed to you and I will also acknowledge that I took liberty at your expense but I will also make the statement that I did no more to you then you yourself did to me. I did it to illustrate a point.

I guess I would answer your last statement by saying I do believe that our talent will prove out in the end. It takes time. This is the first year we had a decent player at the most important position on the field. Parcells deserves the credit for that and this is coming from somebody who believed that Henson would be the guy. I have no agenda where Romo is concerned. It took time for Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt to figure it out. It will also take time for this young team to do the same. The problem here is that I don't see the need to ingore Parcells' contributions to this team simply because we didn't like his style of football or whatever the case.

Parcells stepped down because he was not happy with his personal results, IMO, and because he did not feel he had what it would take to correct those. I give him credit for that. How many men can look within themselves and be honest to the point of turning down a deal that you can basically set up terms as "the sky is the limit" to stay? I will not throw Parcells under the bus for this. It was his time to leave and I am greatful for his services to the organization. The thing I can not support is refusal to acknowledge what Parcells was able to accomplish for us. I can also not abide by an ungreatful attitude towards those efforts.

It may surprise you to know that I was never a huge fan of hiring Bill Parcells. As some who have known me for some time on this board know, I never liked hiring a Giants coach to fix Dallas. Be that as it may, he did a good job for us under some very difficult circumstances IMO. He didn't win but then again, he left us set up to continue to progress very nicely IMO. What we do with it is our own decision and I will tell you that I have a big problem with anybody throwing stones at the guy so that we can go out and hire Norv Turner.

JMO.

 

[rcaldw]

Don't tell me, let me guess. It's ok when you do it but not nearly as neat when it's done to you? Amazing how that works isn't it.

Go back and review the thread and you will see where I made the statement and asked the original poster, "Change for the sake of change" so to speak. I acknowledge the fact that it was not addressed to you and I will also acknowledge that I took liberty at your expense but I will also make the statement that I did no more to you then you yourself did to me. I did it to illustrate a point.

I guess I would answer your last statement by saying I do believe that our talent will prove out in the end. It takes time. This is the first year we had a decent player at the most important position on the field. Parcells deserves the credit for that and this is coming from somebody who believed that Henson would be the guy. I have no agenda where Romo is concerned. It took time for Aikman, Irvin and Emmitt to figure it out. It will also take time for this young team to do the same. The problem here is that I don't see the need to ingore Parcells' contributions to this team simply because we didn't like his style of football or whatever the case.

Parcells stepped down because he was not happy with his personal results, IMO, and because he did not feel he had what it would take to correct those. I give him credit for that. How many men can look within themselves and be honest to the point of turning down a deal that you can basically set up terms as "the sky is the limit" to stay? I will not throw Parcells under the bus for this. It was his time to leave and I am greatful for his services to the organization. The thing I can not support is refusal to acknowledge what Parcells was able to accomplish for us. I can also not abide by an ungreatful attitude towards those efforts.

It may surprise you to know that I was never a huge fan of hiring Bill Parcells. As some who have known me for some time on this board know, I never liked hiring a Giants coach to fix Dallas. Be that as it may, he did a good job for us under some very difficult circumstances IMO. He didn't win but then again, he left us set up to continue to progress very nicely IMO. What we do with it is our own decision and I will tell you that I have a big problem with anybody throwing stones at the guy so that we can go out and hire Norv Turner.

JMO.

You didn't do it to illustrate anything, and you know it.

On top of that. I'm not offended.

I only pointed it out because you were so much up in arms that I didn't use your exact words. Indeed, though I didn't use your exact words, I was a lot closer to what you said than you were to what I said.

But who cares? On this we can agree, we are Cowboys fans. When all else fails we find our unity there.

 

[AtlCB]

Parcells is out.

I am happy no matter what.

That makes one of us. :

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You didn't do it to illustrate anything, and you know it.

On top of that. I'm not offended.

I only pointed it out because you were so much up in arms that I didn't use your exact words. Indeed, though I didn't use your exact words, I was a lot closer to what you said than you were to what I said.

But who cares? On this we can agree, we are Cowboys fans. When all else fails we find our unity there.

Now your a mediam as well? It's all starting to fit.

I absolutly took liberties to prove a point but if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise, that is of course your perogative.

Yes we are fans together but I tell you know, those who find it convenient to throw Parcells under the bus had better hope that his replacement fulfills all the lofty goals expected from Parcells. If not, I imagine the pound of flesh required from this board will be unmerciful.

 

[rcaldw]

Now your a mediam as well? It's all starting to fit.

I absolutly took liberties to prove a point but if it makes you feel better to believe otherwise, that is of course your perogative.

Yes we are fans together but I tell you know, those who find it convenient to throw Parcells under the bus had better hope that his replacement fulfills all the lofty goals expected from Parcells. If not, I imagine the pound of flesh required from this board will be unmerciful.

Listen ABQ. First of all, if you had read my statement carefully in the beginning you would have known that I never said that YOU said that Parcells had the BEST talent.

I challenge you, go back and read it.

I said, "When Jimmy had the best talent, he won"; "When Landry had the best talent, he won."

Meaning, that the years when those guys had the superior talent they proved their coaching ability by getting the most out of those teams.

Then I said, and I quote post #17

"You are the one saying that Parcells has accumulated great talent here. Fine. I can go that way with you if you believe that. So why didn't he win?

Or, you can say he just didn't have the horses that these other teams had. Fine. I can go that way too. So stop saying what great talent he has blessed us with."

I didn't say you ever said we had the "best" talent. I said you were presenting a picture of Parcells accumulating GREAT talent here.

That was the impression you were leaving me with.

Why would I get that impression?

You said there were coaches coming out of retirement to get at this situation.

Now, please tell me how I horribly misrepresented you?

I didn't.

So we can drop all that can't we?

On top of that I would add. I'm not real afraid of the "pound of flesh" that anyone is going to take out of me.

I am a simple Cowboys fan with my own perspective about things. I enjoy reading the perspective of others and letting the "iron sharpen iron" in debate. It's what makes it all a little more fun.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Listen ABQ. First of all, if you had read my statement carefully in the beginning you would have known that I never said that YOU said that Parcells had the BEST talent.

I challenge you, go back and read it.

I said, "When Jimmy had the best talent, he won"; "When Landry had the best talent, he won."

Meaning, that the years when those guys had the superior talent they proved their coaching ability by getting the most out of those teams.

Then I said, and I quote post #17

"You are the one saying that Parcells has accumulated great talent here. Fine. I can go that way with you if you believe that. So why didn't he win?

Or, you can say he just didn't have the horses that these other teams had. Fine. I can go that way too. So stop saying what great talent he has blessed us with."

I didn't say you ever said we had the "best" talent. I said you were presenting a picture of Parcells accumulating GREAT talent here.

That was the impression you were leaving me with.

Why would I get that impression?

You said there were coaches coming out of retirement to get at this situation.

Now, please tell me how I horribly misrepresented you?

I didn't.

So we can drop all that can't we?

On top of that I would add. I'm not real afraid of the "pound of flesh" that anyone is going to take out of me.

I am a simple Cowboys fan with my own perspective about things. I enjoy reading the perspective of others and letting the "iron sharpen iron" in debate. It's what makes it all a little more fun.

Why can't it be both? Why can't Bill Parcells be acknowledged as having done a great job with personel and coaching? Honestly, you tell me who we could have hired at the time to come in and do the same job or better?

I recall the days when this board and virtually every Cowboys board was littered with threads about QC. I really didn't enjoy posting at that time. I suspect that this can turn into the same kind of situation. There are people today that have hard feelings about other posters over that issue and that was how many years ago.

Perhaps I'm making too much of it. Time will tell but I can easily see this going that way. Especially if Norv is hired and this whole thing blows up in our faces. Imagine the anger of the Fan base if after Parcells departs, we manage to go right back to where we were when he first got here. That would not be pleasent.

 

[zeromaster]

If Parcells indeed has the strength of character to ignore the media, the popular perception, and especially the vagaries of the fans on the message boards to make what seemed largely his own decisions while here, it's doubtful anything that we say matters in terms of his departure. He's off the bus.

He left because he wanted to. The job demanded more than he was prepared to give. And any pound of flesh this board wants to exact over the head coaching choice is not being paid with anything real.

It's probably encouraging in a way that BP's talking to some of the candidates, but his long-term reputation is probably not that tarnished by the past 4 years or the immediate aftermath, if he's truly the coach some believe him to be.

Based on the division of opinion here as to who should be hired, there will be no concensus agreement. It's likely none of this will die down until the draft is over and minicamps begin, when there will be something tangible to look at.

 

[rcaldw]

Why can't it be both? Why can't Bill Parcells be acknowledged as having done a great job with personel and coaching? Honestly, you tell me who we could have hired at the time to come in and do the same job or better?

I recall the days when this board and virtually every Cowboys board was littered with threads about QC. I really didn't enjoy posting at that time. I suspect that this can turn into the same kind of situation. There are people today that have hard feelings about other posters over that issue and that was how many years ago.

Perhaps I'm making too much of it. Time will tell but I can easily see this going that way. Especially if Norv is hired and this whole thing blows up in our faces. Imagine the anger of the Fan base if after Parcells departs, we manage to go right back to where we were when he first got here. That would not be pleasent.

It COULD be that way if that is what I honestly believed.

I honestly believe that Bill Parcells did a great job of coaching his first year here. I don't think that Dave Campo or Chan Gailey or very many other people could have gotten 10 wins out of that team, no matter how soft their schedule was.

But from that year on I can't honestly say that I believe he did a good job of coaching. If I believed that I would say that, but I don't.

And maybe this could turn into hard feelings among members of this board, but I hope not, and I really don't think it will. We all debate back and forth, but speaking just for me, I never take it that seriously.

Like I said earlier. Who really cares what I think? No one who has any control over these matters, that is for sure.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It COULD be that way if that is what I honestly believed.

I honestly believe that Bill Parcells did a great job of coaching his first year here. I don't think that Dave Campo or Chan Gailey or very many other people could have gotten 10 wins out of that team, no matter how soft their schedule was.

But from that year on I can't honestly say that I believe he did a good job of coaching. If I believed that I would say that, but I don't.

And maybe this could turn into hard feelings among members of this board, but I hope not, and I really don't think it will. We all debate back and forth, but speaking just for me, I never take it that seriously.

Like I said earlier. Who really cares what I think? No one who has any control over these matters, that is for sure.

I suppose time will tell.

Perhaps whomever is hired will come in and find the kind of success Payton did in New Orleans. I certainly hope that is the case.