Old Ben and Luke

[Idgit]

We'll see how much of a no brainer it is for Jerry if we have more success with Dak and Romo doesn't appear to be himself. Going to be interesting.

Personally the situation excites me as a Cowboy fan that we have choices. No doubt they have come unexpectably. But welcomed nevertheless.

If Dak keeps getting better at the pace he's improving at and Tony's play drops off, all bets are off. I expect Tony to have a game or two of rust--and to hear the grumbles while he gets up to speed--but everything I'm saying here assumes Tony plays at the same high level he's always played at. If he's dropped off, then it's a different matter, entirely. And then, yes, I could see Jerry getting too involved in that decision because, yes, he's attached to Romo and, yes, he's a meddler and can't (or won't) help himself when he needs to butt out.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I'm big on loyalty. Not blind loyalty, but loyalty in general.

Be it family, work, friends, customers, vendors.....loyalty and integrity are absolutes. They, unfortunately, are the rarest qualities these days.

That goes for every team in the NFL, too. You don't turn your back on Romo until he's done. It doesn't just make obvious football sense, it's just the right thing to do.

When Dak is clearly the better option, you pass the baton. Until then, it's just silly talk.

I disagree on loyalty. You take the best care of your players when they are here. But the moment that it's better for a player to be elsewhere for the club...you make a move. And oh by the way...that's loyalty to the fanbase that has enriched you.

It's just incredible anyone would think that the time to move on from him was yesterday yet alone when he returns in a few weeks time.

 

[Idgit]

The past two offsesaons have highlighted this divide between those who like the game, those who love it and those who consume it.

The number of false narratives that have been entrenched in people's minds despite countless to discuss otherwise with informed analysis is astounding....

1) The preseason is a perfect barometer
2) Rushing efficiency is the key
3) Failure to keep the defense off the field was the difference in 2015 vs 2014
4) It's the RB not the line
5) Jones is a jag
6) Romo has been a source of our mediocrity (actually they are right here....we'd have been a 3 or 4 win club without him)

I could go on and on. And some of the least informed are unfortunately the loudest voices.

You're right. The more rational fans see the flood of emotional conclusion drawing and learn that it's pointless to try to boil that ocean and just give up. Only a few are stubborn enough to keep fighting the good fight against an army of surface-deep criticisms. I'd much rather talk about the real challenges for the Cowboys than fight a rear-guard action in another 'it's the play calling' or 'they never move Dez around' debate, but that's easier said than done sometimes.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

You're right. The more rational fans see the flood of emotional conclusion drawing and learn that it's pointless to try to boil that ocean and just give up. Only a few are stubborn enough to keep fighting the good fight against an army of surface-deep criticisms. I'd much rather talk about the real challenges for the Cowboys than fight a rear-guard action in another 'it's the play calling' or 'they never move Dez around' debate, but that's easier said than done sometimes.

I too sometimes fall into the "maybe if I re-word my point and restate the facts they'l get it this time" syndrome. Afterall i'm genuinely interested in the acumen of the zone increasing. Rising tide. All boats. That jazz means diddly in economics but on a forum it holds water. The more informed conversations we have as a community the more rewarding and enlightening those conversations will be. But the rear-guard action as you dubbed it...hasn't even progressed far enough to acknowledge that Romo is not just the best QB in the division but one of the very best on the planet Earth. If they can't even acknowledge that. How can we have a productive conversation around...well...almost anything else?

 

[erod]

Cowboys ring any bells?

Uh............

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't think Luck is overrated.
However, I think he's about to become Archie Manning and Jim Plunkett.
Neither of the aforementioned quarterbacks reached their full potential (Plunkett with his first team) because they were all their team had and their GMs/owners didn't build a team around them.

After acquiring Luck, the Colts should have started to build an offensive line around him and then draft a running back like David Johnson to take the pressure off Luck.

Instead, they drafted one offensive lineman in the top three rounds prior to the 2016 draft. They gave up their first round pick for Trent Richardson, who became fat and lazy with the Browns. And now picked up an almost used-up Frank Gore.

I believe Luck is now settling into bad habits as a result of him having to shoulder the responsibility by himself. And once you learn that type behavior (see Favre and Romo), it's hard to unlearn.

 

[Sage3030]

Cowboys ring any bells?

So the Cowboys are choosing to start Dak over Romo or is it that Romo is injured, the back up is injured, so third string is up to bat now?

The way you present it, is that Romo isn't injured and Dak won the starting job over him.

 

[DFWJC]

Jerry with his comment is already lobbying for Romo's return. I expect the more diehard Romo loyalist to follow suit.

This is damage control starting after Daks first win to derail any momentum he might gain if he continues to win and have success.

They aren't ready for the future yet. They're still all in on Romo to validate his career.

what the....

 

[Idgit]

I too sometimes fall into the "maybe if I re-word my point and restate the facts they'l get it this time" syndrome. Afterall i'm genuinely interested in the acumen of the zone increasing. Rising tide. All boats. That jazz means diddly in economics but on a forum it holds water. The more informed conversations we have as a community the more rewarding and enlightening those conversations will be. But the rear-guard action as you dubbed it...hasn't even progressed far enough to acknowledge that Romo is not just the best QB in the division but one of the very best on the planet Earth. If they can't even acknowledge that. How can we have a productive conversation around...well...almost anything else?

It's tough to have a serious conversation in a room full of people screaming and screaming and not ever stopping, for sure. Every now and then you make eye contact with somebody else who looks exasperated by it all, and work your way over to try to talk, but even then people will interrupt you with even the best of intentions to scream in your face a bit in the middle of your nice conversation. It doesn't help that you've got another group sneaking around instigating the screamers because they think it's funny, and the screamers fall for it, every time, because the littlest poke sets them off in the first place.

At least, you've got the option to selectively mute the loudest screamers. Heck, you could put them all on mute all the time if you didn't worry about the fact that some of the loudest screamers are also capable of being very interesting conversationalists in their more lucid moments. And you don't have to worry about what happens if you sit somebody down for screaming *and* slapping and then they blow up your PMs screaming about how they shouldn't have been sat down in the first place because they think they saw somebody else slapping at one point and why are you so biased? It's enough to make you want to scream.

Not that I"m jaded or anything.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I don't think Luck is overrated.
However, I think he's about to become Archie Manning and Jim Plunkett.
Neither of the aforementioned quarterbacks reached their full potential (Plunkett with his first team) because they were all their team had and their GMs/owners didn't build a team around them.

After acquiring Luck, the Colts should have started to build an offensive line around him and then draft a running back like David Johnson to take the pressure off Luck.

Instead, they drafted one offensive lineman in the top three rounds prior to the 2016 draft. They gave up their first round pick for Trent Richardson, who became fat and lazy with the Browns. And now picked up an almost used-up Frank Gore.

I believe Luck is now settling into bad habits as a result of him having to shoulder the responsibility by himself. And once you learn that type behavior (see Favre and Romo), it's hard to unlearn.

Luck was annointed after his rookie year as the perfect qb prospect. He has been vastly overrated throughout his career and has benefited in the W/L category by a historically weak division during his tenure.

Good prospect. Overrated. Overpaid.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

It's tough to have a serious conversation in a room full of people screaming and screaming and not ever stopping, for sure. Every now and then you make eye contact with somebody else who looks exasperated by it all, and work your way over to try to talk, but even then people will interrupt you with even the best of intentions to scream in your face a bit in the middle of your nice conversation. It doesn't help that you've got another group sneaking around instigating the screamers because they think it's funny, and the screamers fall for it, every time, because the littlest poke sets them off in the first place.

At least, you've got the option to selectively mute the loudest screamers. Heck, you could put them all on mute all the time if you didn't worry about the fact that some of the loudest screamers are also capable of being very interesting conversationalists in their more lucid moments. And you don't have to worry about what happens if you sit somebody down for screaming *and* slapping and then they blow up your PMs screaming about how they shouldn't have been sat down in the first place because they think they saw somebody else slapping at one point and why are you so biased? It's enough to make you want to scream.

Not that I"m jaded or anything.

And all this after a Cowboy win.

Last year was truly awful.

 

[Jarv]

I'm not sure I'm completely sold on Dak. We need to know or we'll need to draft another QB next year.

I understand that Romo has kept this team relevant this era but I don't place him in the same elite status many of you do. Sorry. I'm result oriented.

He isn't in the same category as Brady and Rodgers, etc. One of the best of the rest in his prime. His prime has passed. It'd be different if Not for Dak and why Jerry and his Romo followers are out in full force now .

If your so results orientated, why would you take Dak with a 50% winning percentage as opposed to Romo's .602?

 

[Idgit]

And all this after a Cowboy win.

Last year was truly awful.

That's an important point. After 12-4, it was really fun around here. We just need to keep the wins coming and pretty much everybody will be happy and willing to talk.

 

[superonyx]

In 3 seasons all of the talent on offense could be passing their peak.

Let Romo play out this season but if another disappointing ending time to move on.

Philly isn't waiting on Wentz , Colts didn't on Luck. Have to know when to move on and let go. Even if it's a year or two premature .

How far is this team going anyway with this defense with or without Romo?

Philly isn't waiting on Wentz because they have a pile of hot garbage behind Wentz. The Colts should have kept Manning around. Some will say Luck struggles to this day because he picked up some bad habits being thrown to the wolves.

Dak will get to where he isn't a liability to the running game like he is today. I'm extremely confident in this. Just no reason to toss the second highest rated QB in NFL history and the highest 4th QT QB in NFL history away....especially when almost every game is decided by 1 score no matter who is playing QB.

 

[Diehardblues]

Luck was annointed after his rookie year as the perfect qb prospect. He has been vastly overrated throughout his career and has benefited in the W/L category by a historically weak division during his tenure.

Good prospect. Overrated. Overpaid.

We all have seen how Romo initially sparked us in 2006, then leading us to the #1 seed in 2007, elevated our team like in the 8-8 seasons with a horrid defense but how would you rate his overall effectiveness as compared to the teams in not having more team success?

Individual stats don't interest me without team success. Romo's production has been relative to a pass happy league this era. I don't play Fantasy Football and have always been of the notion that Great defenses and or elite QB's make the difference. Romo has no doubt been one of the greatest over achievers in NFL history at QB. One of a handful undrafted QB's to make his mark.

It's not his fault Jerry has failed to surround him with a better team in his prime although in the early years it was enough of a team to see the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons. Missing out on that early success was tough with signature losses to end the season. Then surprisingly in 2014 we had one shining moment in a sea of disappointments.

At what point does he become part of the lack of success in missing the playoffs so often? His continued injuries of late is a contributing factor to our lack of success. How much longer do we keep this emerging talented offense on hold while theyre still in their prime? We expended most all our top resources in recent years surrounding him with talent .

And with the lack of success even though he's been a key part in keeping us relevant do we lose the loyalty without more team success or are we just rooting Romo along because he's been our best player and best hope this era and we want him to go out a winner giving him every opportunity?

Sorry, but I'm prepared to ask the tough questions. I'm not here to lead cheers and a pep rally receiving the most likes.

 

[Diehardblues]

Philly isn't waiting on Wentz because they have a pile of hot garbage behind Wentz. The Colts should have kept Manning around. Some will say Luck struggles to this day because he picked up some bad habits being thrown to the wolves.

Dak will get to where he isn't a liability to the running game like he is today. I'm extremely confident in this. Just no reason to toss the second highest rated QB in NFL history and the highest 4th QT QB in NFL history away....especially when almost every game is decided by 1 score no matter who is playing QB.

We're not going to toss him away He's under contract thru 2017. If he's healthy you start him. I'm just presenting to propose a discussion on a scenario in which you might want to play Dak.

The difference with me is I don't have any loyalty or attachment to Romo anymore than I had to Meredith or Morton who were all good QB's in their own right and on better teams.

The unconditional attachment to Romo without more team success is a concern to me. Especially for Jerry.This has not been a fun era for me. I don't play Fantasy Football. I don't enjoy watching him scramble around unless we're winning. It's not personal.

If Romo undisputedly provides our best chance to win a championship now we play him. I'm not sure we have a shot at winning a championship now with either QB and why I'm suggesting this season might be better spent if its a season wasted anyway to get his experience and or make sure he is the heir apparent while not risking any further injury to Romo.

 

[erod]

I think we've hit on an important point here.

We want Dak to sit and learn behind Romo because we don't want the same thing to happen to him that happened to Andrew Luck.

 

[Diehardblues]

If your so results orientated, why would you take Dak with a 50% winning percentage as opposed to Romo's .602?

I want to be sure Dak is our heir apparent. Once Romo went down I pretty much wrote off this season and the Romo era. I figured if Dak wasn't our future then we'd be using our 1st pick next year on QB.

I'm prepared to move on. This defense isn't taking us very far anyway. That will take a couple of years and by then Dak should have his legs under him if he's our guy which I'm not as sold as many are.

Romo has never shown he can elevate us much further without a better defense. Elevating a poor team to 8-8 is not satisfying. And 2014. The lone year which everyone wants to use as our model now. I'm tired of being Romo dependent on missing the playoffs and disappointing endings. Not fun to me.

And Dak could still stink it up and Romo come in and take us to another non playoff season. I'm so over Romo. Sorry but I'm so ready for the next era. It cant be much worse than no championships.

 

[erod]

I want to be sure Dak is our heir apparent. Once Romo went down I pretty much wrote off this season and the Romo era. I figured if Dak wasn't our future then we'd be using our 1st pick next year on QB.

I'm prepared to move on. This defense isn't taking us very far anyway. That will take a couple of years and by then Dak should have his legs under him if he's our guy which I'm not as sold as many are.

Romo has never shown he can elevate us much further without a better defense. Elevating a poor team to 8-8 is not satisfying. And 2014. The lone year which everyone wants to use as our model now. I'm tired of being Romo dependent on missing the playoffs and disappointing endings. Not fun to me.

And Dak could still stink it up and Romo come in and take us to another non playoff season. I'm so over Romo. Sorry but I'm so ready for the next era. It cant be much worse than no championships.

OK, by your plan, three years from now....

Dez is old and ineffective, if not gone. Witten is gone. Lee is gone. Carr, Church, Durant, Crawford, Claiborne, Free.....probably gone. You're in a never-ending building process. Brady has played with multiple rosters, but they're always good players. THAT is the key.

You can build this defense in one offseason. Sign one of the top defensive linemen available in free agency, and another decent guy. Draft defense the first four rounds. Jaylon Smith's knee heels. Collins and Tapper can play. Young guys improve.

Romo has two more campaigns at least if that back holds. Dak is learning and sponging in the background all along.

More now than later, although it'll take magic pixie dust with this defense.

 

[Diehardblues]

OK, by your plan, three years from now....

Dez is old and ineffective, if not gone. Witten is gone. Lee is gone. Carr, Church, Durant, Crawford, Claiborne, Free.....probably gone. You're in a never-ending building process. Brady has played with multiple rosters, but they're always good players. THAT is the key.

You can build this defense in one offseason. Sign one of the top defensive linemen available in free agency, and another decent guy. Draft defense the first four rounds. Jaylon Smith's knee heels. Collins and Tapper can play. Young guys improve.

Romo has two more campaigns at least if that back holds. Dak is learning and sponging in the background all along.

More now than later, although it'll take magic pixie dust with this defense.

There's always hope Erod. I envy your optimism. I haven't felt it in a long time but I am excited about Dak. Much like I was back in 2006 and 2007 when Romo came onto the scene.