On June 22, 2017 Derek Carr was signed a 5-year $125m contract extension

[TheMarathonContinues]

Who are these “a few DTs” we have that could man the 3T?

There’s Hill who is a total unknown. And then I guess Crawford who isn’t as good as Collins and is also close to having his contract expire.

Honestly I thought Maranelli just plugged guys in there. He threw Jason Hatcher and Tyrone Crawford out there at 3T.....Woudlnt' shock me to see Woods or Covington get some time there either.

 

[InTheZone]

*market followers*

Why is Garrapollo getting paid a good point for Dak to get paid, but using Gurley's deal to get Zeke paid was just a "one time thing that teams aren't doing anymore"?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Andy Dalton sucks though lol.

And the Raiders did not suck until they wiped their team clean. Just two seasons ago people had them as legit contenders. Carr's contract had nothing to do with why they suck.

Paying huge money to underperforming players does not contribute to teams underperforming.

The more ya know...

 

[rnr_honeybadger]

Not necessarily. If he has a bad year, there is no guarantee that his offer doesn't decline. Heck, if the Cowboys lose, we could have a different Coaching Staff and they could want to go another way. I mean, a lot could change.

Sure, but it's a calculated risk. Also even with a down year, some team out there will pay crazy money out there for him.

 

[Beast_from_East]

OK.

Make Dak play 2019, or part of 2019, before handing him a Top 3 contract.

Why do people have a problem with that?

I agree, letting Dak play is the smart move here.

$35 million is just too much for what he has shown so far.

 

[exciter]

Small sample size but Amari Cooper

Cooper was a 1000 yard receiver his 1st 2 seasons including as a rookie. He was injured and missed games his 3rd season and alot of the offensive drop off that year was credited to a new offensive coordinator and the qb troubles adjusting to a new scheme. Cooper made Dak serviceable, not the other way around!

 

[exciter]

Who did Romo give a contract to? Laurent Robinson? Alright. He actually was a good player but ok lol. Romo made TO what he was huh? How well did Romo make Roy Williams look?

And Dak saved Coopers career.

Robinson, Miles, Dez, Williams... Cooper made Dak serviceable last year, not the other way around!

 

[blueblood70]

Wait. You think the market will stop if guys like Carr stopped getting deals? Hahhahahahaahahahahahh lol. Contracts will continue to go up as long as the salary cap goes up. Tell the NFL to lower the salary cap if they want to stop inflation. I'm not trying to even be funny but I'm not sure if you understand how this works.

But giving Elite money to tier 2 guys just because they are QBs has to stop..sure ALL salary's go up with inflation but when you stop overpay for the undeserving yes it can help balance this back out.. you should earn where you fall against your peers not what postion you play..Dak is nowhere near a 30mil guy hes 25 mil guy and for some reason he along with other qbs and agents FEEL hey im a starting QB I want to be next highest paid, that is NOT how it should work and thats what should stop.. If brees and brady are ok with not being highest paid, both make 23 this coming season and dak wont sign for 30, thats large issue..its the Owners faults and they have the power to change this..start offering less, reset the balance ..we stopped high rookie salarys at one time an dnow we need to stop the overpaying of any player that isnt earning..

somethings out of balance when players ranked outside the top 10 wont take top 5 money and players like Zeke whos cap is 15 wont even be 4th=5th on team just because hes aRB but also arguably the most productive on the team and in the league is deserving of market money..

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

But giving Elite money to tier 2 guys just because they are QBs has to stop..sure ALL salary's go up with inflation but when you stop overpay for the undeserving yes it can help balance this back out.. you should earn where you fall against your peers not what postion you play..Dak is nowhere near a 30mil guy hes 25 mil guy and for some reason he along with other qbs and agents FEEL hey im a starting QB I want to be next highest paid, that is NOT how it should work and thats what should stop.. If brees and brady are ok with not being highest paid, both make 23 this coming season and dak wont sign for 30, thats large issue..its the Owners faults and they have the power to change this..start offering less, reset the balance ..we stopped high rookie salarys at one time an dnow we need to stop the overpaying of any player that isnt earning..

somethings out of balance when players ranked outside the top 10 wont take top 5 money and players like Zeke whos cap is 15 wont even be 4th=5th on team just because hes aRB but also arguably the most productive on the team and in the league is deserving of market money..

Its not going to stop though. This is a QB starved league. Guys even want a tier 2 quarterback. I get what you're saying I just don't believe its realistic. You can't just say let's cut it off after Cousins, Alex Smith and Garoplo got what they got. All three of those teams were desperate and desperation won't stop in the NFL.

The RB market is screwed up. No doubt. That's why Zeke is holding out.

 

[blueblood70]

Its not going to stop though. This is a QB starved league. Guys even want a tier 2 quarterback. I get what you're saying I just don't believe its realistic. You can't just say let's cut it off after Cousins, Alex Smith and Garoplo got what they got. All three of those teams were desperate and desperation won't stop in the NFL.

The RB market is screwed up. No doubt. That's why Zeke is holding out.

not as it stands like I already stated Rookie QBs are starting much more then they did before and by game 1 and becoming successful enough the Vets are losing some leverage..so if you have dak wanting 35 im going into 2020 draft looking for his replacement and FT tag him once and groom the next guy.. there are old dog vets like Fitz and Keenum etc that can do the job short term..

The influx of ready to play rookie Qbs or 2nd year guys will start to balance this out, owners will get tired of handing out OVERPayments to QBs..it cant keep up at this pace or no team will be able to build team with the % going to one position and for Average to good players making Elite money..

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's not a problem because of the cap, everyone knows how big the pie is. A team can choose to cut or trade too. It would be different if there was no cap and players demands was exceeding the money coming in. No team is going bankrupt because of rising player's salaries. No one is forcing owners to pay the salaries. Each team decides if they want to pay the asking price, they can choose not too like in Wsh/Cousins case. Some players can ask for more, some will have to settle for less and some simply won't have a team willing to pay at all. Quality players and depth are leaving to other teams willing to pay, they're not leaving the NFL. Players were not always payed on merit in the good ol days either, you had unproven rookies that hadn't ever played a NFL snap signing huge contracts more than proven vets. Players have never been solely payed on merit, they were payed on "potential" and circumstance as well. The cap insures players salaries don't get out of hand and protects the owners.

The real issue is that for fans it's OK that it's a business for the NFL/owners, but want it to be a game for the players. Fans want to keep the players they want and expect that all the players should be willing to sacrifice financially to make that happen. Many fans want the players to have less control or say in their own business decisions.

Yeah, I don't agree at all. Currently, the NFL cap is at 188 Mil. We do not know what the next TV contract will bring so we do not know what increases may be down the road. However, we do know that between Dak's 35, Zeke's 15, Cooper's 17 (we hope) and DLaw's 21 annually, that has effectively eaten up approximately 47% of the existing cap. Now, while I understand that you believe there is no chance of going bankrupt, that's not really the argument I've heard anybody present, including me. This is not about a team going bankrupt. This is about the amount of cap available to field a team. So yes, we all know how big the pie is and right now, I'm telling you that what is being proposed is nearly half of that amount on 4 players. Never mind that we have several players coming due very soon, that will also want record deals, never mind that we still have other significant contractual commitments, the real problem here is that you can't manage a cap that way. The money does run out, that's why they call it a hard cap, and the result of this practice, as we have seen in the past, is that you end up with a crappy team for years and have to dig your way out of cap prison. No thanks, I don't agree.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

People seem to have the assumption that the extension means the last year of his deal gets torn up when that doesn't seem to be the case.


I haven't seen the contract. Nothing is out there but that is how contracts work in the NFL. The extension gets added to the existing years. It happened with Wentz's new deal. It happened with Russell Wilson's new deal. It happened with Big Ben's new deal. Big Ben and Wilson had one year left, and their extensions (4 years and 2 years, respectively) were added to subsequent years after the remaining year. Wentz' extension was added after the two years remaining on his deal. So if Dak's is structured out of the norm I think the burden of proof would be on you to prove different.

https://overthecap.com/player/russell-wilson/1569/
https://overthecap.com/player/ben-roethlisberger/1580/
https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/

If anything, I think a health argument would play in Dak's favor as well. Dak's ceiling is more or less Russell Wilson--making plays with his legs when he can. You can have that style of play and protect yourself. Wentz hangs in the pocket and evades the rush more like Roethlisberger which opens you up to more blindside hits. Dak can see the tacklers better in the open field and slide or even lay the hit himself.

I am not one of these people, you mention in your post above. I completely understand how Wentz's contract works. In fact, not that you have to but if you did, you would see that I have tried to explain how his contract works to the board multiple times. I am not confused on how it works. I get that you are relatively new here and that you may not be aware of this put trust me, I understand. That, however, doesn't change the reality of how waiting a year effects Dak's earning potential, going forward. The longer he waits to get a new deal, the more money he costs himself in his playing career. The fact of the matter is that he has so many years to make as much as he can. Every year he waits costs him money he will never recover because his widow is limited in that regard. That's just the truth of it.

BTW, Dak is not Russell Wilson. Wilson was much better, coming out of Wisconsin and even at NCSt.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sure, but it's a calculated risk. Also even with a down year, some team out there will pay crazy money out there for him.

I am not convinced that any team out there will do this. Will a team pay him 30? Maybe but I doubt anybody is paying him 35 unless they are in such a terrible position that they have no choice or, because they have to unload cap. I mean, that's usually what you see when teams pay crazy amounts of money to so-so players. I mean, I guess it could happen but is it a wise decision? If another team does spend crazy money on a QB who is not capable of winning games without a Pro Bowl type talent at RB and an All NFL OL, I just hope it's not us.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I am not one of these people, you mention in your post above. I completely understand how Wentz's contract works. In fact, not that you have to but if you did, you would see that I have tried to explain how his contract works to the board multiple times. I am not confused on how it works. I get that you are relatively new here and that you may not be aware of this put trust me, I understand. That, however, doesn't change the reality of how waiting a year effects Dak's earning potential, going forward. The longer he waits to get a new deal, the more money he costs himself in his playing career. The fact of the matter is that he has so many years to make as much as he can. Every year he waits costs him money he will never recover because his widow is limited in that regard. That's just the truth of it.

BTW, Dak is not Russell Wilson. Wilson was much better, coming out of Wisconsin and even at NCSt.

I said Russell Wilson is Dak's ceiling, meaning he isn't on his level now. I was moreso talking about his style of play. I think there is a disconnect somewhere if you do know how the contracts work. I don't see how you can say waiting costs him money. A 4 year/$120 million extension starting in 2020 is still the same money whether he signs the deal now or at the end of the year as a free agent. It comes off as though you are saying if he signs a deal now that the deal would be for 2019, which is why I made my last post.

 

[ClintDagger]

Its not going to stop though. This is a QB starved league. Guys even want a tier 2 quarterback. I get what you're saying I just don't believe its realistic. You can't just say let's cut it off after Cousins, Alex Smith and Garoplo got what they got. All three of those teams were desperate and desperation won't stop in the NFL.

The RB market is screwed up. No doubt. That's why Zeke is holding out.

Is it really a QB starved league right now? The only teams that might be desperate for a QB is maybe the Bucs, Raiders, possibly Tennessee. But a guy like Dak isn’t a fit in a rebuild anyways. Most teams have QBs either starting or waiting in the wings that they are good with.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Is it really a QB starved league right now? The only teams that might be desperate for a QB is maybe the Bucs, Raiders, possibly Tennessee. But a guy like Dak isn’t a fit in a rebuild anyways. Most teams have QBs either starting or waiting in the wings that they are good with.

Everyone is good with their guy to start the season. We'll see who feels the same way to end the year.

 

[ClintDagger]

Everyone is good with their guy to start the season. We'll see who feels the same way to end the year.

Maybe a few will change their minds, but a lot of that will be taken care of with guys like Tua, Herbert, and Fromm getting drafted. I like Dak, but I’m realistic about him as well. He’s not and will never be a cornerstone QB. He really only has value in specific situations. Maybe a team like the Bears, possibly the Broncos would be interested if they are a game manager and clutch QB away, but rebuilding teams would have zero interest.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Is it really a QB starved league right now? The only teams that might be desperate for a QB is maybe the Bucs, Raiders, possibly Tennessee. But a guy like Dak isn’t a fit in a rebuild anyways. Most teams have QBs either starting or waiting in the wings that they are good with.

It is. You have probably about 5 franchise qbs...when you get past those guys you have a bunch of question marks. I don’t believe a lot of teams are confident in their quarterback position.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Everyone is good with their guy to start the season. We'll see who feels the same way to end the year.

Exactly. By mid season a lot of teams will either like what they have or start to worry.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I said Russell Wilson is Dak's ceiling, meaning he isn't on his level now. I was moreso talking about his style of play. I think there is a disconnect somewhere if you do know how the contracts work. I don't see how you can say waiting costs him money. A 4 year/$120 million extension starting in 2020 is still the same money whether he signs the deal now or at the end of the year as a free agent. It comes off as though you are saying if he signs a deal now that the deal would be for 2019, which is why I made my last post.

You also compared him to Wilson, in his abilities. When you say he can play that same style, you are basically saying that he is at a level to be able to be successful playing like Wilson. Well, that's wrong. He can't do the same things Wilson has done because he isn't as good a natural passer. I get what you are trying to say but it's not true and further, it doesn't change the truth of the statement. Dak has not shown or proven that he is Russell Wilson or can play at his level. That's still a true statement.

The contract is your story, you tell it. There is no disconnect. I understand exactly how it works. Go read up on some of my posts discussion the Wentz contract. It will be clear to you that I do understand it. If you don't want to do that then I guess go ahead and continue to believe that it's my lack of understanding but I guarantee you, the poster on this board know that I already know that Wentz's deal is not a 4 year, 32 mil deal. It's a 6 year 26 and change deal and the reason for that is because it's basically an extension so no, I get it. Doesn't change the fact that Wentz's deal is only relevant to Dak if he signs this year. Doesn't change the fact that the Eagles, by signing him with two more years left helped themselves out a great deal because they can spread it out over more time. Doesn't change the fact that it will cost us significantly more money to do that same kind of deal with Dak, then it did Philly. Also doesn't change the fact that he doesn't want Wentz money. He wants Russell Wilson money. He ain't getting it, not this year, IMO so basically, you can't do the Wentz deal.