On June 22, 2017 Derek Carr was signed a 5-year $125m contract extension

CowboyRoy

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ok ZEKE TROLL dont be hypocrite MR.ROY , Zekes the only one that deserves market and its only 15 not some ridiculous number that way over the actual production.. so I guess one troll looking into mirror will recognize another..makes sense..lmao

A Zeke troll.....possibly. Didnt used to be. But at least I have the fact that Zeke is a complete and utter mental moron. The moron gets suspended, does stupid things, holds out with 2 years left on his contract, makes bad decisions, and is nothing close to a leader.

Dak is the complete opposite. Zeke was the 4th pick in the draft and Dak was a 4th round pick costing us basically 500k a year on average the last 3 years. Dak is in camp while the idiot is in Cabo.

And no, Zeke is the one that least deserves the money. For me, that is the whole point.
 

G2

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The context, however, was whether they should sign him now.

Frankly, when they sign him doesn’t really affect whether we waste the next 5 years or not. Dak could play well in 2019 and they sign him if they haven’t done so already. Or Dak plays so-so and we face the real possibility that we might waste the next 4-5 years anyway on an average QB.
No, that's not what we were discussing. It was in reference to moving on from Prescott. The rest of your post makes no sense with regard to my post if you understood that.
 

jaythecowboy

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There is no guarantee that it would be a Wentz deal because, if he does not sign this year, it can't be a Wentz deal. After this year, he's an FA unless he gets tagged. It can't be a Wentz deal unless he signs this year.
I know that. I'm saying the deal on the table now is structured the same way as Wentz'. The money still plays out the same if he signs the deal now vs next year. He isn't losing a year as a highly paid qb as you claimed.

If he loses value due to poor play or a career ending injury is a separate discussion, but clearly all sides expect his value to most likely go up.
 
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Sydla

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The other thing to consider here is that for Dak there is no urgency to sign. He can play another year and next season the market resets upward again so then 40 million will be the normal.

But he gives up a year of earning millions.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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I know that. I'm saying the deal on the table now is structured the same way as Wentz'. The money still plays out the same if he signs the deal now vs next year. He isn't losing a year as a highly paid qb as you claimed.

If he loses value due to poor play or a career ending injury is a separate discussion, but clearly all sides expect his value to most likely go up.

Interesting, I haven't seen the offer so if you have it, then please post it. Either way, if he doesn't take this deal, then the contract has to change and you don't know what the money looks like. Please post the details of the contract you have apparently seen.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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But he gives up a year of earning millions.

I already tried to explain this. He doesn't get it. Dak has maybe 5 good prime years where he will be able to demand really good money. You figure, Dak takes hits and so his window is likely to be shorter then a lot of QBs but after that period, he won't be making the same kind of money. The longer it takes him to get into the money, the fewer years he will have to capitalize on his opportunities. This poster believes that it's the same deal as Wentz, I seriously doubt that it is as Wentz had two years left on his deal and Dak is basically an FA after this season but I don't know, I haven't seen the details. I think that what we will end up seeing with Dak is one or two years at the end where the Cowboys could get out of the deal. This is where Dak would lose money IMO. If he reaches that point with good health, his chances of getting extended for the big dollars tied to the end of that deal are better. If he's reached the point where he is not the same guy, he likely loses that money and gets a lessor deal. I mean, I've seen that over and over but it's hard to make people accept that or understand it.

This poster is just thinking that the contract will be guaranteed and it is what it is but the truth is that these things usually get extended and that depends on where you are at with your health. We did that with Tony and look where we ended up there. I don't see the Cowboys doing that with Dak, basically making the same mistake but who knows?
 

Roadtrip635

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No. If this were unified across the board, then it wouldn't be a problem but that's not what you are seeing in the NFL. What you are seeing is an unhealthy rise in QB salary and it's making up to great a percentage of the total cap. That can't continue. You can't pay skilled positions to large a percentage and keep enough depth at all other position to be good enough to win a championship. I mean, it's not as if players at other positions are settling for less. Their contract demands are increasing as well so what you are seeing is quality experience and depth leaving. That is not going to last. Your statement about lasting for almost 100 years, well, it hasn't been this way for 100 years. In the past, players have been plaid on their merits. Now, we are moving to a model that pays them based on the prior highest contract. That's a terrible model to follow. That's very different and is only something we've seen very recently.


It's not a problem because of the cap, everyone knows how big the pie is. A team can choose to cut or trade too. It would be different if there was no cap and players demands was exceeding the money coming in. No team is going bankrupt because of rising player's salaries. No one is forcing owners to pay the salaries. Each team decides if they want to pay the asking price, they can choose not too like in Wsh/Cousins case. Some players can ask for more, some will have to settle for less and some simply won't have a team willing to pay at all. Quality players and depth are leaving to other teams willing to pay, they're not leaving the NFL. Players were not always payed on merit in the good ol days either, you had unproven rookies that hadn't ever played a NFL snap signing huge contracts more than proven vets. Players have never been solely payed on merit, they were payed on "potential" and circumstance as well. The cap insures players salaries don't get out of hand and protects the owners.

The real issue is that for fans it's OK that it's a business for the NFL/owners, but want it to be a game for the players. Fans want to keep the players they want and expect that all the players should be willing to sacrifice financially to make that happen. Many fans want the players to have less control or say in their own business decisions.
 

Toruk_Makto

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While I'm not a big fan of Carr's, the Raider's problems are not because of the contract they gave him, they go much deeper than that.
Part of their organizational failure lead them to sign Carr for 125mm.

So this entire thread is kind of crazy...

Another pretty badly run organization had a similar situation.....but made a wise decision. Who you ask?

Take a look at Andy Daltons contact. That's the comparison we should be making.
 

jaythecowboy

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People seem to have the assumption that the extension means the last year of his deal gets torn up when that doesn't seem to be the case.
I already tried to explain this. He doesn't get it. Dak has maybe 5 good prime years where he will be able to demand really good money. You figure, Dak takes hits and so his window is likely to be shorter then a lot of QBs but after that period, he won't be making the same kind of money. The longer it takes him to get into the money, the fewer years he will have to capitalize on his opportunities. This poster believes that it's the same deal as Wentz, I seriously doubt that it is as Wentz had two years left on his deal and Dak is basically an FA after this season but I don't know, I haven't seen the details. I think that what we will end up seeing with Dak is one or two years at the end where the Cowboys could get out of the deal. This is where Dak would lose money IMO. If he reaches that point with good health, his chances of getting extended for the big dollars tied to the end of that deal are better. If he's reached the point where he is not the same guy, he likely loses that money and gets a lessor deal. I mean, I've seen that over and over but it's hard to make people accept that or understand it.

This poster is just thinking that the contract will be guaranteed and it is what it is but the truth is that these things usually get extended and that depends on where you are at with your health. We did that with Tony and look where we ended up there. I don't see the Cowboys doing that with Dak, basically making the same mistake but who knows?

I haven't seen the contract. Nothing is out there but that is how contracts work in the NFL. The extension gets added to the existing years. It happened with Wentz's new deal. It happened with Russell Wilson's new deal. It happened with Big Ben's new deal. Big Ben and Wilson had one year left, and their extensions (4 years and 2 years, respectively) were added to subsequent years after the remaining year. Wentz' extension was added after the two years remaining on his deal. So if Dak's is structured out of the norm I think the burden of proof would be on you to prove different.

https://overthecap.com/player/russell-wilson/1569/
https://overthecap.com/player/ben-roethlisberger/1580/
https://overthecap.com/player/carson-wentz/4715/

If anything, I think a health argument would play in Dak's favor as well. Dak's ceiling is more or less Russell Wilson--making plays with his legs when he can. You can have that style of play and protect yourself. Wentz hangs in the pocket and evades the rush more like Roethlisberger which opens you up to more blindside hits. Dak can see the tacklers better in the open field and slide or even lay the hit himself.
 
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TheMarathonContinues

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Of course. Especially most quarterbacks like Dak. I certainly want him to have it.

But if we pay him $35 million, the roster is going to start to disintegrate over time.

Think about it. After Jaylon and LVE, we could see 80 percent of the cap devoted to 9 guys.

That is bad business.
Ok that's the life of the NFL. Gotta continue to draft well and talent won't be a problem. They are probably about to lose Byron Jones, Maliek Collins and La'el Colins to free agency....and you know what? They have Connor Williams, Trystan Hill and Awuzie waiting in the wings.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Part of their organizational failure lead them to sign Carr for 125mm.

So this entire thread is kind of crazy...

Another pretty badly run organization had a similar situation.....but made a wise decision. Who you ask?

Take a look at Andy Daltons contact. That's the comparison we should be making.
Andy Dalton sucks though lol.

And the Raiders did not suck until they wiped their team clean. Just two seasons ago people had them as legit contenders. Carr's contract had nothing to do with why they suck.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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we dont need to GET IT, listen its the Carr contratcs that make the OTHER guys who are clearly better then him seek bigeger and bigger deals, it keeps resetting the market and has to stop.. its not inflation per se its overpaying Players who are not at the time nor in the future ever going to paly up to that contract and then makes the next guy who comes up claim, Market.. the market keeps rising because owners keep caving to paying Elite money to Average players.. who give a flip if Dak gets 30 now and it slips to 10 or 15 best in 5years 30million is 30million and over 5 years with guaranteed money he and his family are set for life..its reciprocal and its mistakes like this and say what others claiming Gurleys contract was but one you do it you cant go back until the majority put their foot down and stop the cycle they are in right now..

some owners need to step off the merry go round and it will happen soon because more and more QBs being drafted are paying as rookies and playing well, overpaying because of limited starting QBs is coming to an end soon..
Wait. You think the market will stop if guys like Carr stopped getting deals? Hahhahahahaahahahahahh lol. Contracts will continue to go up as long as the salary cap goes up. Tell the NFL to lower the salary cap if they want to stop inflation. I'm not trying to even be funny but I'm not sure if you understand how this works.
 

exciter

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So if Rogers make players around him better than why the hell did he not even make the playoffs last year? Or why did Romo only have 1 playoff win throughout his career? Why did Brees have a string of 8-8 seasons of mediocrity? Brady got hurt and the Pats won 11 games without him. May be coaching has something to do with it? No?
Said hes makes players better not create miracles. How many average wrs did Romo get a 2nd contract or resurrect their careers. Name one player Dak has made better.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Said hes makes players better not create miracles. How many average wrs did Romo get a 2nd contract or resurrect their careers. Name one player Dak has made better.
Who did Romo give a contract to? Laurent Robinson? Alright. He actually was a good player but ok lol. Romo made TO what he was huh? How well did Romo make Roy Williams look?

And Dak saved Coopers career.
 

Sydla

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Ok that's the life of the NFL. Gotta continue to draft well and talent won't be a problem. They are probably about to lose Byron Jones, Maliek Collins and La'el Colins to free agency....and you know what? They have Connor Williams, Trystan Hill and Awuzie waiting in the wings.

Williams, Hill and Awuzie haven't proven to be as good as those guys though.

Well I don't think La'el Collins is any big loss, personally. But Jones would be and if Hill struggles this year, the Cowboys have to think long and hard about bringing Maliek Collins back.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Williams, Hill and Awuzie haven't proven to be as good as those guys though.

Well I don't think La'el Collins is any big loss, personally. But Jones would be and if Hill struggles this year, the Cowboys have to think long and hard about bringing Maliek Collins back.
They've proven nothing now. But this year they will get plenty of playing time to get ready for next year. And I bring up Hill because he's a guy we drafted. I think we have a few DT's on this team that can make up for Collins when he leaves. I wouldn't rule out him coming back if its for a favorable deal. I Just assume he's going to get a big deal and be out like Hitchens.
 

Sydla

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They've proven nothing now. But this year they will get plenty of playing time to get ready for next year. And I bring up Hill because he's a guy we drafted. I think we have a few DT's on this team that can make up for Collins when he leaves. I wouldn't rule out him coming back if its for a favorable deal. I Just assume he's going to get a big deal and be out like Hitchens.

Who are these “a few DTs” we have that could man the 3T?

There’s Hill who is a total unknown. And then I guess Crawford who isn’t as good as Collins and is also close to having his contract expire.
 
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