On The Topic of Leadership

[Bob Sacamano]

Then consider yourself uninformed. Try to become a more well-rounded football fan and student of the game, then you can understand how the Patriots have been successful and are very mischaracterized as a bland, passionless lot that show that business wins.

No, they carry themselves like businessmen. They take that approach in running the franchise. But they are certainly smarter and more intense on the field than any franchise around. They are driven. That's why they are winners.

I don't see how that widely differs from what I'm saying

you maybe see an intense performance from the Pats once a year, whenever they feel dissed, usually in the playoffs, but other than that, they just go out and destroy people, they are like a machine, I don't see a team full of cocky superstars who are driven on pure adrenaline, they're systematic

I am ready for change. Not more of the same.

hey, I'm all for change too, and I've admitted that we could use more fiery individuals, but when people say there are no leaders, I think they are undermining the leaders that are on this team, some people, not saying you, just what I've seen, act like the Cowboys are this emotionless bunch of stiffs, when I see differently

I get what you're saying now Alex, you want more than just the leaders who lead by example, but also a few players who will fire their teammates up, that's understandable, I wish we had a few too

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And do not forget, Brady is what he is only because he's impregnated a super model.

Perhaps all Romo needs to do is sire a few with Underwood and he will have arrived.

if you can't see that Brady is a superstar because he's won 3 rings and has kept his face in the media, then idk, your bad I guess

 

[Alexander]

hey, I'm all for change too, and I've admitted that we could use more fiery individuals, but when people say there are no leaders, I think they are undermining the leaders that are on this team, some people, not saying you, just what I've seen, act like the Cowboys are this emotionless bunch of stiffs, when I see differently

Undermining or underestimating?

I believe it is a definition that is misconstrued. Those that think we have leaders on this team are right.

We do have "leaders".

Just not the right kind.

It takes more than being "classy" and "leading by example". That is a completely romantic view that simply doesn't translate very well to reality. There is something to be said about having an edge. And something to actually being a doctor, as opposed to playing one on TV.

You can do that and still lose. And we have.

 

[Alexander]

if you can't see that Brady is a superstar because he's won 3 rings and has kept his face in the media, then idk, your bad I guess

Actually the bad is yours if you cannot watch him play and appreciate the things he does on the field. It's not because he's got the mythical "pedigree" with the rings or that he's a cover boy.

Like I said, if that's the case, let's go buy Tony some fake rings to flash and he's there. He already has the celebrity thing on his resume.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We do have "leaders".

Just not the right kind.

I wouldn't say it's the wrong kind, because if a bunch of guys are doing nothing but running around and hooting and hollering, you're getting motivated people, who aren't going to get much done, I think you need both to be successful in this league

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Actually the bad is yours if you cannot watch him play and appreciate the things he does on the field. It's not because he's got the mythical "pedigree" with the rings or that he's a cover boy.

Like I said, if that's the case, let's go buy Tony some fake rings to flash and he's there. He already has the celebrity thing on his resume.

are you kidding me? I thought we were talking about leadership? I don't know anywhere in this discussion that I've pictured Brady as nothing but a pretty boy, I think I said he's won 3 rings, at least twice in this conversation, but if you need me to dumb it down and say that Brady was huge in those sucesses, then so be it

I don't see Brady yelling on the field, I just see him winning games and making some great plays

 

[Alexander]

I wouldn't say it's the wrong kind, because if a bunch of guys are doing nothing but running around and hooting and hollering, you're getting motivated people, who aren't going to get much done, I think you need both to be successful in this league

We have some hooters and hollerers too.

Bradie James looked like a imbecile hooting after stopping a player for a two yard gain late in the season.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

but does the casual fan know that? how can you be a superstar when maybe half of the people who watch football don't know how impressive you really are? and will just look at the stats and see that Seymour has never ranked in the top 5 in sacks?

edit: to make sure everyone understands, Seymour is an outstanding player, but not everyone knows that, since a superstar is someone everybody recognizes

All one would need to have done is watch the three SB that the patriots have been in and listen to them gush about how good Seymour is.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

We have some hooters and hollerers too.

Bradie James looked like a imbecile hooting after stopping a player for a two yard gain late in the season.

I've seen Ware hoot and holler too at some points, and?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

All one would need to have done is watch the three SB that the patriots have been in and listen to them gush about how good Seymour is.

I can't speak for other people

I don't give the casual fan much credit, there are some real dumb ones out there who think DeAngelo Hall is a shutdown corner because Madden was raving about him "shutting down" TO

 

[Alexander]

I've seen Ware hoot and holler too at some points, and?

Has he done that after a pedestrian play?

And if you note, I don't consider him a leader either. At best, he's an honor graduate from Greg Ellis school of leadership.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Has he done that after a pedestrian play?

does the distinction really matter? seriously

Ray Lewis hops around before games and people think we need more players to be like him

And if you note, I don't consider him a leader either. At best, he's an honor graduate from Greg Ellis school of leadership.

same here, the guy comes off as an introvert

 

[burmafrd]

Someone here thinks that fans and headlines mean leadership. Its what happens on the practice field, in the locker room, and on the playing field that builds champions. Seymour is an undisputed leader of that D. Vrabel, McGinnest and Breuschi were the other leaders. Now that the Pats are losing some of that leadership, its telling. They are not the same team as the 2004 Championship team. Brady is the man on the Offense. Its going to be very interesting this year with Thomas and Moss thrown in the mix.

 

[Alexander]

does it really matter? seriously

Ray Lewis hops around before games and people think we need more players to be like him

And like I said before, we have everything else. And it isn't working.

Watch the team huddles before our big games.

It is laughable to compare what Greg Ellis does and what Lewis does in terms of the player reactions.

If you do not believe me, take the two biggest games of the last two years: 2005 Giants (game two) and 2006 Eagles (game two). Both were passionless limp speeches from our "leaders" that would put you to sleep. Meanwhile, on the other side, it was a screaming bunch of fiends hopping around who eventually beat us convincingly.

The 1990s Cowboys should have shown us that leadership is not just one player. It wasn't just Irvin then. We had four or five distinctly different personalities and little by little as they fell to the wayside, our success whittled away to nothing. But Irvin was the beginning of the end. Aikman couldn't take his place. Neither could Emmitt Smith. Losing Haley was big for the defense.

I think most of our team is pretty much the same. And we are missing a few personality types, most noteably the rabid and/or intense.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Alex, for the 3rd time today

WE COULD USE BOTH! emotional and by example leadership

 

[Angus]

Leadership is a mixed bag. it certainly helps as there are far too many examples of it being succesful but then there are cases where it is there and it doesnt seem to help.

The offensive line for example. Rivera for the past several years ahs filled that role. He filled it admirably in Green Bay and from all indications he was doing what was necessary as a leader. he would hold meetings outside of VR, he would help the new guys and get on peoples butts if they slacked off.

Our offensive line has been one of the weaker points ont he team.

Then take our wideouts. I dont think anyone will credit Owens as a leader no matter how he helped Hurd along. Glenn works hard but he is the quiet type and not exactly what one would see as a leader of men.

Our receivers have been a strong suit on our team for quite some time.

we still do have leaders on this team. ferguson leads the dline no question about that and i got the impression that newman began asserting himself as well. james tries to be one but until he can put his money where his mouth is before he can fill that role.

On offense look no farther than our quarterback, Mr. Romo. im just hoping one of the olinemen step up and asserts themselves as that is a unit that is going to need cohesiveness to e successful.

I think you are selling Owens short. He has the fire and the demonstrated performance to entertain the role. In the recent past he has been on the outside looking in, first with McNabb's jealousy and then Parcells obstinacy. And he wants to win!! Owens and Romo are tight. Together, with Witten, they could make the necessary waves for the offense.

On defense, the new safety will have great responsibility and he seems eager to assume it, even if it requires abrasiveness. Several people on that side were captains of their college teams and may feel liberated to express themselves now that Parcells is gone.

But Owens may surprise us.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think you are selling Owens short. He has the fire and the demonstrated performance to entertain the role. In the recent past he has been on the outside looking in, first with McNabb's jealousy and then Parcells obstinacy. And he wants to win!! Owens and Romo are tight. Together, with Witten, they could make the necessary waves for the offense.

On defense, the new safety will have great responsibility and he seems eager to assume it, even if it requires abrasiveness. Several people on that side were captains of their college teams and may feel liberated to express themselves now that Parcells is gone.

But Owens may surprise us.

you know that is true. public perception is seldom representative of the truth. you see him on the sidelines trying to fire people up and he does help younger players but i think many would rather die then ever look on owens as a leader of this team.

 

[Alexander]

you see him on the sidelines trying to fire people up

No, he was yelling at them and berating them.

Get it straight.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

you know that is true. public perception is seldom representative of the truth. you see him on the sidelines trying to fire people up and he does help younger players but i think many would rather die then ever look on owens as a leader of this team.

I've only heard the players speak positively of Owens, but whatever

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've only heard the players speak positively of Owens, but whatever

i was talking abiut the people on this board.

if say jason witten said in an interview "some people arent going to like this but TO is a leader of this team." could you imagine how people would freak out.

nathanlt would beat his wife and thumper would go looking for his shotgun.