Opinion: WR Corps goal for 2010 – Find a #2 WR (he is not in-house currently)

[Doomsay]

Look at the healthy receivers for Indy... Look at the running game for Indy.

Then look at the # of sacks allowed.

Manning is a huge factor in the low sack equation - probably the best pocket sense I've ever seen.

 

[jimmy40]

The NFL is a passing league, so you can never be short at the WR position. Do we all agree?

We should! And provided we do, I think we all agree Dallas needs to find upgrades here. I don't believe it requires major re-building, but it does need re-structuring. Currenetly I see a big hole at #2 WR that I'm convinced Roy Williams will never fill.

Based on that premise, I would like to see the goal for the WR corps for 2010 to find a true #2 WR, and hopefully round out the corps where Ogletree is the #4 WR.

Why Ogletree at #4? Well…several reasons….

Right now, I just see 2 WRs on the team better than Ogletree (and I’m not including TEs – they are not WRs). Those 2 would be Miles Austin and Patrick Crayton. In my opinion, only Austin has secured the right to claim the #1 spot. Crayton has shown enough over the years to best be trusted manning the #3 spot.

Since we’re stuck retaining Roy Williams on the roster, due to his ridiculous contract, my hope is that he improves enough this offseason to be the #5 WR; I’ll even settle for a scenario where he makes it to #4 and Ogletree slots in at #5, but I’d really like to see Ogletree beat him out so that he is not a progress stopper for Ogletree.

The odd man out here is Sam Hurd. I like Hurd because I have no expectations for him. That’s why I can live with his Roy-Williams-esque performances. But if we’re forced to retain Roy Williams, as we are, then we don’t need two-kinds of that same unreliable WR that makes few plays, more mistakes, and ultimately no difference on the football field.

So right now, If I’m designing this WR roster, I’ve got Austin as my #1 WR and Crayton as my #3. #4 and #5 WR spots are taken up by Ogletree and Roy Williams, respectively, which leaves a huge opening at #2 WR.

The question then is: What does Dallas do at #2 WR? Whoever he is, he is currently not on the roster, IMHO.

Any thoughts?

Roy has to stay, he gives the crybabies something to do.

 

[LatinMind]

Won't happen.

RW is the #2 receiver in this offense for 2010.

The #2 receiver is NOT the problem in this offense.

The offensive line is.

hold up a minute. #2wr is a problem

and yes OL was a problem vs the vikings. but they played real good this yr. nomatter what chris mortonson says

 

[Eskimo]

Free did an OK job in Colombo's absence, but got help and wasn't anything spectacular

You've got problems watching the game - what help are you talking about? It looked like we ran our normal offense and played better offensively than we were earlier in the year against quality teams during Colombo's absence. When Free came in the game - after the initial jitters it was Colombo that required help. Allen, the All-Pro DE, got no sacks on Free. Edwards, the solid DE, got 3 sacks on Colombo despite receiving extra help. I don't think I've ever seen an OL beat cleanly on 2/3rds of the snaps of the game like Colombo was. It was probably one of the worst performances an OL has ever had for the Cowboys - we're talking Daniels vs. Tucker, LT vs. Pozderac variety butt-kicking

As for nothing spectacular, what about that block 50 yards downfield against a CB on Felix Jones' TD run in week 17 against Philadelphia. That was a play so spectacular that people still regularly talk about it 3 weeks later.

You're one of those Doug Free haters. Take your hate goggles off and watch the man play. He is good and brings the sort of superior athleticism that is rarely found in someone large enough to play OT.

 

[Gzus]

Won't happen.

RW is the #2 receiver in this offense for 2010.

The #2 receiver is NOT the problem in this offense.

The offensive line is.

What offense have you been watching the entire season?
The offensive line was the problem for this one game against the Vikings, be it game plan or preparation. For most of the season analysts raved that the Cowboys offensive line dominated defenses (like the Eagles) and for the most part they tended to protect Romo well enough for him to put up the yardage he did.

#2 WR is a HUGE problem on this offense if you continue to consider RW your #2. If anything I consider Jason Witten our #2 receiver but considering what we are paying RW to be our "#1" he's not even our #3 in terms of production.

Your yardage leaders for the Boys:
1. Miles Austin 1320 yds
2. Jason Witten 1030 yds
3. Patrick Crayton 622 yds
4. Roy Williams 596 yds

My gripe is with the inconsistency of his production because for the most part when the Cowboys run multiple WR sets, even single WR sets he's the WR that's in there. He probably is on the field the most out of all the WRs (don't know for a definite fact, but I have a good hunch) but his production sucks.

Game 1: 3 receptions 86 yards; 2: 1 rec 18 yds; 3: 4 rec 75 yds; 4: 3 rec 35 yds; 5: Out w/ injury; 6: 1 rec 16 yds; 7: 2 rec 19 yds; 8: 5 rec 75 yds; 9: 5 rec 105 yds; 10: 0 rec 0 yds; 11: 2 rec 15 yds; 12: 6 rec 60 yds; 13: 4 rec 74 yds; 14: 1 rec 15 yds; 15: 1 rec 4 yds; 16: 0 rec 0 yds; 17: 5 rec 59 yds; 18: 0 rec 0 yds.

He only had one game with more than 100 yards, he only broke 50 yards 7/18 games, and only recorded more than 5 receptions in a game once. That is not what I expect from a guy getting paid #1 WR money, let alone #2 WR.

Cowboys need a new WR in there as their #2 opposite Austin, and it ain't RW

 

[Doomsay]

You've got problems watching the game - what help are you talking about? It looked like we ran our normal offense and played better offensively than we were earlier in the year against quality teams during Colombo's absence. When Free came in the game - after the initial jitters it was Colombo that required help. Allen, the All-Pro DE, got no sacks on Free. Edwards, the solid DE, got 3 sacks on Colombo despite receiving extra help. I don't think I've ever seen an OL beat cleanly on 2/3rds of the snaps of the game like Colombo was. It was probably one of the worst performances an OL has ever had for the Cowboys - we're talking Daniels vs. Tucker, LT vs. Pozderac variety butt-kicking

As for nothing spectacular, what about that block 50 yards downfield against a CB on Felix Jones' TD run in week 17 against Philadelphia. That was a play so spectacular that people still regularly talk about it 3 weeks later.

You're one of those Doug Free haters. Take your hate goggles off and watch the man play. He is good and brings the sort of superior athleticism that is rarely found in someone large enough to play OT.

As soon as you invoke "____ hater", you lose the arguement. Colombo had a bad game trying to recover from his first game in 7 or so weeks. I wanted Free to start in the Wildcard game over Colombo for health and practice reasons, so dispense with the "hater" moniker it doesn't apply in this instance. Even though Free didn't lose games for us down the stretch, he wasn't spectacular (down field block notwithstanding) and did get help, re-watch the games. Doesn't mean that he cant be really good, but Colombo's injury-related failures last week don't make Free a star as you seem to imply.

 

[Gzus]

As soon as you invoke "____ hater", you lose the arguement. Colombo had a bad game trying to recover from his first game in 7 or so weeks. I wanted Free to start in the Wildcard game over Colombo for health and practice reasons, so dispense with the "hater" moniker it doesn't apply in this instance. Even though Free didn't lose games for us down the stretch, he wasn't spectacular (down field block notwithstanding) and did get help, re-watch the games. Doesn't mean that he cant be really good, but Colombo's injury-related failures last week don't make Free a star as you seem to imply.

I think Free will improve over the offseason with more OTAs and practices and he could develop into one of our starting tackles (either side).

 

[jobberone]

The OL played reasonably well. They are an above average line based on sacks allowed and the running game along with being a top five offense in yards. They were exposed against the Vikings although some of that is mitigated by the loss of Adams and the post injury status of Colombo. But CLEARLY they were outmanned across the board. It is an indictment against the OL. They did not match up against the elite teams (team in this instance). Some will point out Adams going down created the problem. Some will say its only one game; an aberration. Wouldn't happen again. I say we were exposed although again some of it is mitigated by Adams going down. Even with him in there they were getting sacks and pressure with their front four!

So if we want to get past that hump and play with the big boys then some change is in order. I will say I have no idea who needs to be exchanged. I just see a need if they want to be the best in the league and not just very good.

I'll say we need a better LG. I've always been a Kosier fan but only to the extent he's above average and very serviceable. I think our center and RG are good enough. I think Adams is not as dominant as before. I'm not certain where Colombo is in this. What is clear by the number of sacks given up and giving credit for the running game is they both are not dominant. I'm not certain how many would agree with that but I think it would be a clear majority.

The problem is that it is going to be difficult to bring anyone in here via the draft who can break into the starting lineup year one. Brewster may be able to out compete Kosier but I wouldn't bet money on it. In fact I'd bet now the other way. We aren't going to be able to replace Adams next year despite all the clamoring for Free. I'd give it a small shot but nothing reasonable. If we had a higher draft position or can get a FA in here then we might be able to upgrade either tackle esp with a FA. I don't know who's out there FA wise but it'd have to be a very good one to replace either Adams or Colombo.

I know it's not going to be a simple matter to accomplish.

 

[bayeslife]

I'm really tired of this "true" **** when it comes to getting players. Either they can play receiver well, or they can't. If he's a "true" #2 does that mean he couldn't play #1? I don't understand.

We didn't have a "true" #2 when this team was lighting defenses up back in 2007, but it only became a problem when we started losing. If they are the second best WR on the team, then they will play #2. That's how you figure it out.

/rant

As for where to get one, I'd say get a couple of guys through the draft or see what we have currently on the roster. I like Ogletree but I can't say I've seen enough of him to know for sure, but then that's also what I said about Austin so who knows. I'd have to say one or two through the draft would be a good way to inject some competition and find out.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Manning is a huge factor in the low sack equation - probably the best pocket sense I've ever seen.

He's not 25 sacks better.

And he had a worse receiving corp to work with than what Romo did... Plus a worse running game, so the defense could tee-off on him much more.

Finally, there are experts that say that Romo has the quickest release in the NFL... So how many sacks did he actually save?

What else ya got Doom?

The fact is the oline of the Dallas Cowboys and not the lack of a #2 (yawn) is the real problem here.

The Cowboys won a SB with Kevin Williams as the #2.

 

[Gzus]

He's not 25 sacks better.

And he had a worse receiving corp to work with than what Romo did... Plus a worse running game, so the defense could tee-off on him much more.

Finally, there are experts that say that Romo has the quickest release in the NFL... So how many sacks did he actually save?

What else ya got Doom?

The fact is the oline of the Dallas Cowboys and not the lack of a #2 (yawn) is the real problem here.

The Cowboys won a SB with Kevin Williams as the #2.

The problem of the one game that got them knocked out was the o-line, the problem the whole season was a lack of a #2. I know yeah they were #2 in yardage, but they lacked a legitimate #2 WR threat the entire season. The o-line got outplayed in the Vikings game but the rest of the season they were reasonably solid.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

What offense have you been watching the entire season?
The offensive line was the problem for this one game against the Vikings, be it game plan or preparation. For most of the season analysts raved that the Cowboys offensive line dominated defenses (like the Eagles) and for the most part they tended to protect Romo well enough for him to put up the yardage he did.

#2 WR is a HUGE problem on this offense if you continue to consider RW your #2. If anything I consider Jason Witten our #2 receiver but considering what we are paying RW to be our "#1" he's not even our #3 in terms of production.

Your yardage leaders for the Boys:
1. Miles Austin 1320 yds
2. Jason Witten 1030 yds
3. Patrick Crayton 622 yds
4. Roy Williams 596 yds

My gripe is with the inconsistency of his production because for the most part when the Cowboys run multiple WR sets, even single WR sets he's the WR that's in there. He probably is on the field the most out of all the WRs (don't know for a definite fact, but I have a good hunch) but his production sucks.

Game 1: 3 receptions 86 yards; 2: 1 rec 18 yds; 3: 4 rec 75 yds; 4: 3 rec 35 yds; 5: Out w/ injury; 6: 1 rec 16 yds; 7: 2 rec 19 yds; 8: 5 rec 75 yds; 9: 5 rec 105 yds; 10: 0 rec 0 yds; 11: 2 rec 15 yds; 12: 6 rec 60 yds; 13: 4 rec 74 yds; 14: 1 rec 15 yds; 15: 1 rec 4 yds; 16: 0 rec 0 yds; 17: 5 rec 59 yds; 18: 0 rec 0 yds.

He only had one game with more than 100 yards, he only broke 50 yards 7/18 games, and only recorded more than 5 receptions in a game once. That is not what I expect from a guy getting paid #1 WR money, let alone #2 WR.

Cowboys need a new WR in there as their #2 opposite Austin, and it ain't RW

Who cares how the yards are accumulated– The fact is Romo still managed over 4,000 yards passing.

A different #2 isn't going to get many more catches than what Roy Williams got this season. They just aren't. Not in this offense.

The problem with the offense isn't the lack of a #2, but the inefficiency of the offensive line.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

The problem of the one game that got them knocked out was the o-line, the problem the whole season was a lack of a #2. I know yeah they were #2 in yardage, but they lacked a legitimate #2 WR threat the entire season. The o-line got outplayed in the Vikings game but the rest of the season they were reasonably solid.

Rewatch the Denver and Green Bay games and tell me the problem wasn't the offensive line.

 

[dbair1967]

Manning is a huge factor in the low sack equation - probably the best pocket sense I've ever seen.

The OL that holds 90% of the time and never gets called is a far bigger factor.

 

[Gzus]

Rewatch the Denver and Green Bay games and tell me the problem wasn't the offensive line.

Every team has a few teams they won't match up well with over the season. For the most part I think the O-line did well, you can tweak it a bit but for the most part they did well over the whole season. If anything you have Free you can plug into the line and you can go out and get another young OL that you can develop over the next season but I don't think you need a major overhaul.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Every team has a few teams they won't match up well with over the season. For the most part I think the O-line did well, you can tweak it a bit but for the most part they did well over the whole season. If anything you have Free you can plug into the line and you can go out and get another young OL that you can develop over the next season but I don't think you need a major overhaul.

I'm not saying a major overhaul... But there is one if not two guys that need replacing before the start of next season.

This current group of 5 starters is not going to get any better– Not at their age. You put them out there again next season and you'll see a lot more "Denver/Green Bay/Minnesota" type of games.

They simply aren't good enough.

 

[NeonNinja]

I'm not saying a major overhaul... But there is one if not two guys that need replacing before the start of next season.

This current group of 5 starters is not going to get any better– Not at their age. You put them out there again next season and you'll see a lot more "Denver/Green Bay/Minnesota" type of games.

They simply aren't good enough.

I agree with that.

 

[Gzus]

I'm not saying a major overhaul... But there is one if not two guys that need replacing before the start of next season.

This current group of 5 starters is not going to get any better– Not at their age. You put them out there again next season and you'll see a lot more "Denver/Green Bay/Minnesota" type of games.

They simply aren't good enough.

You can say that but who are you gonna replace? Flo makes mistakes on penalties but he's still one hell of a LT, Colombo is still a solid RT (you could plug in Free there), Davis and Gurode are staying put cause they are pretty damn solid as is Kosier. The problem the Boys have had is on outside rushers so if you're gonna replace anyone it'd be the tackles, who out there is a better LT than Flo?

 

[Eskimo]

As soon as you invoke "____ hater", you lose the arguement. Colombo had a bad game trying to recover from his first game in 7 or so weeks. I wanted Free to start in the Wildcard game over Colombo for health and practice reasons, so dispense with the "hater" moniker it doesn't apply in this instance. Even though Free didn't lose games for us down the stretch, he wasn't spectacular (down field block notwithstanding) and did get help, re-watch the games. Doesn't mean that he cant be really good, but Colombo's injury-related failures last week don't make Free a star as you seem to imply.

He wasn't just adequate when given some help, either.

He played better than Colombo (not that that is saying much). It is what he showed athletically that has me so interested. First, He has first rate LT feet which is hard to find on a guy 6'6" 320 pounds with long arms. Secondly, he can really run and hit DBs and LBs in the open field. That is a package that is just too good to turn down. Part of the reason that some of the screens we ran later on in the year worked is because Free could get out there and crush people in the open field in a way that I have rarely seen an OL do. Most just go out there and toss themselves at someone and are happy to touch the player - Free was laying people out. And if you want to talk about nasty - how about Free practically dismembering that Commanders safety who had the gall to catch one of Romo's INTs.

He really showed the sort of elite athletic ability that is going to help Felix become a star.

I'm sorry that you missed it even if you aren't a hater.

 

[Doomsay]

He's not 25 sacks better.

And he had a worse receiving corp to work with than what Romo did... Plus a worse running game, so the defense could tee-off on him much more.

Finally, there are experts that say that Romo has the quickest release in the NFL... So how many sacks did he actually save?

What else ya got Doom?

The fact is the oline of the Dallas Cowboys and not the lack of a #2 (yawn) is the real problem here.

The Cowboys won a SB with Kevin Williams as the #2.

Pretty sure most experts say that nobody is more adept at calling the defense and avoiding sacks than Manning. Goes far beyond quickness of release.

Never said line play wasn't important. Clearly our line failed on Sunday, I don't think that anybody is disputing that.

However, the fact that our #1 receiver by snaps during the regular season and our #2 receiver by snap count in last weekend's game is considered so untrustworthy that Tony wont throw to him does create a huge problem for a QB under pressure. If you don't think that having one less target on every passing down isn't a problem, then I'm not sure what else I can add. A target opportunity reduction of 20 - 33% on every play is significant.