OT Fabini & CB/FS Coleman's future with the Cowboys??

[junk]

MW, when all the "sign Fabini right now" stuff was going on at the start of FA, who was the tag team that was anti-sign Fabini? Their names escape me right now.

Hooray for you. You don't want the team to get better or have depth in case of emergency (see 2005).

You definitely deserve some kudos for that stance.

But...but...he is an "old Parcells player" that won't let us develop a young guy.

 

[CrazyCowboy]

It does not look good!

 

[Hostile]

Hooray for you. You don't want the team to get better or have depth in case of emergency (see 2005).

You definitely deserve some kudos for that stance.

But...but...he is an "old Parcells player" that won't let us develop a young guy.

I want the team to get better. You don't ever need to doubt me on that, but it's a free country so by all means make this ridiculous assumption that I don't want the team to get better.

I did NOT see him as us getting better. I'm not sure I even see him as depth.

There's plenty of evidence to back me up. I was pro addressing RT in the Draft, though not in round 1, and I said Petitti was going to improve and impress.

I didn't want Fabini for exactly that "he's an old Parcells player" reason along with his coming off a pectoral muscle tear injury and being over 30.

 

[burmafrd]

Frankly, there was a lot more EVIDENCE that Fabini was a good pickup. A guy that starts that many games STRAIGHT for a team that is usually a playoff contender is going to be above average. Now if he has hit the wall and its all over for him that is one thing- BUT once again panicking after a couple days of camp is just plain stupid.

 

[AbeBeta]

panicking after a couple days of camp is just plain stupid.

You all better listen. Burm knows stupid.

 

[burmafrd]

Learned it good from you, aber.

 

[AbeBeta]

Learned it good from you, aber.

So I guess this is a case where the student outdoes the teacher.

 

[burmafrd]

Now I wouldn't exactly say that.....
I bow to the master.

 

[AbeBeta]

Now I wouldn't exactly say that.....
I bow to the master.

Now don't be modest.

 

[Hostile]

Frankly, there was a lot more EVIDENCE that Fabini was a good pickup. A guy that starts that many games STRAIGHT for a team that is usually a playoff contender is going to be above average. Now if he has hit the wall and its all over for him that is one thing- BUT once again panicking after a couple days of camp is just plain stupid.

I'm not panicking even a little bit.

I'm also not surprised at Fabini's struggles nor Petitti's progress.

If anything I wish we'd address Guard and see what it would take to acquire Eric Steinbach.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

MW, when all the "sign Fabini right now" stuff was going on at the start of FA, who was the tag team that was anti-sign Fabini? Their names escape me right now.

Henchman stick together.

 

[Hostile]

Henchman stick together.

:shake:

Through smooth sailing and abrasive posting.

 

[burmafrd]

Steinbach would be a guy I would target for next year. 27 years old and a Pro Bowl possibility. Depends on how much he wants.

 

[junk]

I want the team to get better. You don't ever need to doubt me on that, but it's a free country so by all means make this ridiculous assumption that I don't want the team to get better.

I did NOT see him as us getting better. I'm not sure I even see him as depth.

There's plenty of evidence to back me up. I was pro addressing RT in the Draft, though not in round 1, and I said Petitti was going to improve and impress.

I didn't want Fabini for exactly that "he's an old Parcells player" reason along with his coming off a pectoral muscle tear injury and being over 30.

So, what is the downside to the signing that makes you and Winicki so down on it? What is wrong with an old Parcells player? Bledsoe certainly shored up the QB position. A. Glenn was a nice add. Ferguson is a key to the 3-4 (although I'll agree last year wasn't his best effort). Richie Anderson played well when he was here. Keyshawn wasn't bad. How about Terry Glenn? She's OK.

The Petitti flag wavers seem to missing a few critical components that Fabini brings to the table.

- Competition - Do you think having a former Parcells' player around might have made Petitti work a little harder this offseason?

- Mentoring - Parcells' raves about how much Fabini knew coming out of college. Fabini has played for Parcells. Think he might be able to show Petitti a thing or two? Who else is going to help him? Colombo? Only if he needs something off the top shelf.

-Flexibility - Has played left and right tackle. Look at Curtis Martin's numbers. He can play in this league.

-Depth - Want a repeat of last year? Ugh. Not me.

-Cost - As much as Winicki whines about cost, this guy is playing for relative peanuts.

Colledge was really the only tackle prospect in the draft that might have been able to contribute right away. Anyone else that Dallas had a shot at probably would have been developmental. You can only have so many developmental guys in the mix and I think Colledge was better suited to guard/LT.

If Flo went down, would you be more comfortable with a guy that has several seasons experience under his belt at LT.....or Colombo? Nice story, but a major question mark.

Like I said, I think its early to be smug about this whole deal. I doubt he was doing much strength work while he was injured. He didn't play in the last half of the season. I expect he'll be rusty for a bit. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him challenge for or win that RT spot.

 

[junk]

Steinbach would be a guy I would target for next year. 27 years old and a Pro Bowl possibility. Depends on how much he wants.

I was reading somewhere that he was looking for a pretty big payday so Cincy might let him walk.

He would seem to be the type that would fit the system, but I certainly wouldn't want to pay top dollar for a guard......especially a hawkeye.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So, what is the downside to the signing that makes you and Winicki so down on it? What is wrong with an old Parcells player? Bledsoe certainly shored up the QB position. A. Glenn was a nice add. Ferguson is a key to the 3-4 (although I'll agree last year wasn't his best effort). Richie Anderson played well when he was here. Keyshawn wasn't bad. How about Terry Glenn? She's OK.

The Petitti flag wavers seem to missing a few critical components that Fabini brings to the table.

- Competition - Do you think having a former Parcells' player around might have made Petitti work a little harder this offseason?

- Mentoring - Parcells' raves about how much Fabini knew coming out of college. Fabini has played for Parcells. Think he might be able to show Petitti a thing or two? Who else is going to help him? Colombo? Only if he needs something off the top shelf.

-Flexibility - Has played left and right tackle. Look at Curtis Martin's numbers. He can play in this league.

-Depth - Want a repeat of last year? Ugh. Not me.

-Cost - As much as Winicki whines about cost, this guy is playing for relative peanuts.

Colledge was really the only tackle prospect in the draft that might have been able to contribute right away. Anyone else that Dallas had a shot at probably would have been developmental. You can only have so many developmental guys in the mix and I think Colledge was better suited to guard/LT.

If Flo went down, would you be more comfortable with a guy that has several seasons experience under his belt at LT.....or Colombo? Nice story, but a major question mark.

Like I said, I think its early to be smug about this whole deal. I doubt he was doing much strength work while he was injured. He didn't play in the last half of the season. I expect he'll be rusty for a bit. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him challenge for or win that RT spot.

The truth is I'm not being snug. I hope it pans outs because I think it's (obviously) good for the franchise for him not to totally suck arse. I just hope Petitti shows enough to beat him out and I hope he (Fabini) could step in for a game or two if need be and not embarrass us.

I just didn't think it was a wise signing to begin with and I still don't.

 

[burmafrd]

THere was no one else that was worth getting. Simple as that.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Understand it's very early in TC and much will change as we move along & into the preseason games, but I want to talk about the future of Jason Fabini & Marcus Coleman with the Cowboys. Both were brought in as starters at RT & FS

Fabini was brought in here to compete with Petitti for the RT position only not automatically be the starter.

 

[Hostile]

So, what is the downside to the signing that makes you and Winicki so down on it? What is wrong with an old Parcells player? Bledsoe certainly shored up the QB position. A. Glenn was a nice add. Ferguson is a key to the 3-4 (although I'll agree last year wasn't his best effort). Richie Anderson played well when he was here. Keyshawn wasn't bad. How about Terry Glenn? She's OK.

You probably will discount much of this, but I am being honest here. Please take that into account. Oh, and I am speaking for myself. MW can share his own thoughts. I won't presume to think for him.

1. My hesitation about former Parcells players...point blank I feel he is TOO focused on them. Some work out. Some don't. At least explore all the options, don't just jump at the chance to get a former player back in the fold. That bothers me.

Familiarity is fine but it can be taken too far. Learn from how Dallas ended up with Tony Dorsett. Tampa Bay hired former USC Head Coach John McKay. He used the overall #1 pick in the Draft to select his former runner Ricky Bell. Dallas made a trade with Seattle and stole Tony Dorsett. McKay went with familiarity and it was a flop.

You can disagree with my feelings here but this is how I honestly feel.

2. I am usually not keen on signing Free Agents over 30. I realize some are difference makers, but I am still pretty much always hesitant about it. I am not opposed to over 30 Free Agents, but I will rarely be all in favor of it. Very rarely. I believe in building for the long term, not just quick fixes.

3. He was coming off an injury. 9 times out of 10 this is a huge red flag for me. Especially when they are over 30. Bodies do start breaking down as age advances. Look at the last 3 years. It's a bad pattern.

Ryan Young...Marco Rivera...now Fabini. He can still prove me wrong, but I'm going to be shocked if he does. I'll gladly eat crow and I am rooting for him. Faith in him? Not much.

4. I never thought he was all that good in the first place. JMO.

5. There were other options, including the Draft if we wanted to address the OL. There were other Free Agents.

6. I felt the starting OTs were better than the interior line. If you go back and check I really wanted LeCharles Bentley, and I've recently menioned Eric Steinbach. Interior line.

The Petitti flag wavers seem to missing a few critical components that Fabini brings to the table.

I knew this was going to come back to jealousy over Petitti somehow. I saw something in the kid, naturally I must be a flag waver.

Okay, let's see the results.

- Competition - Do you think having a former Parcells' player around might have made Petitti work a little harder this offseason?

I have no way of knowing. Neither do you. As a forum we knew from his Dad that he wasn't satisfied with the way 2005 ended. I tend to think a player who plays through injuries, and loses 40 pounds, to be someone who is showing dedication. When a player like that isn't satisfied good things can happen.

- Mentoring - Parcells' raves about how much Fabini knew coming out of college. Fabini has played for Parcells. Think he might be able to show Petitti a thing or two? Who else is going to help him? Colombo? Only if he needs something off the top shelf.

Parcells also raved about Vinny being able to squat 400 pounds. Forgive me if I'm not sold on every subject Parcells raves about but I'm not. I wasn't sold on Fabini. Parcells assurances weren't going to change my mind.

-Flexibility - Has played left and right tackle. Look at Curtis Martin's numbers. He can play in this league.

Past tense. Prove it now. If he can, great. I'll give him credit. Most reports I've heard, including a couple not posted, aren't good.

-Depth - Want a repeat of last year? Ugh. Not me.

Show me where I said "let's stand pat across the board at OL."

-Cost - As much as Winicki whines about cost, this guy is playing for relative peanuts.

Great, we possibly have a real cheap option who can't play as well as he did in the past. Excellent. This changes everything.

Colledge was really the only tackle prospect in the draft that might have been able to contribute right away. Anyone else that Dallas had a shot at probably would have been developmental. You can only have so many developmental guys in the mix and I think Colledge was better suited to guard/LT.

As I already said, I was more comfortable at OT than I am at LG, C, and RG. In other words, Colledge is only one option, there were others.

If Flo went down, would you be more comfortable with a guy that has several seasons experience under his belt at LT.....or Colombo? Nice story, but a major question mark.

I must have missed where I am selling Columbo. You keep bringing him up like I'm am beating the guy's drum. I'm not. As far as I am concerned we still need to address the OL depth. Hence why I've been mentioning Eric Steinbach lately.

Like I said, I think its early to be smug about this whole deal. I doubt he was doing much strength work while he was injured. He didn't play in the last half of the season. I expect he'll be rusty for a bit. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him challenge for or win that RT spot.

I wasn't intending to come across as smug, but if that's how you read it, that's how you read it. I was mostly just joking with MW because we took a lot of flack for not wanting him from long before he signed. Once he actually signed, we took some more flack. Now that he isn't impressing it's wrong for us to give some of the flack back. It makes us smug. Okay. Whatever.

 

[junk]

2. I am usually not keen on signing Free Agents over 30. I realize some are difference makers, but I am still pretty much always hesitant about it. I am not opposed to over 30 Free Agents, but I will rarely be all in favor of it. Very rarely. I believe in building for the long term, not just quick fixes.

And I agree on signing free agents over 30....if that is the plan to fix the hole. Fabini obviously isn't the long term answer, but what do you do if you are unsure if Petitti/Colombo are going to pan out? You want to continue to develop them while still having an option that won't cripple the team as tackle did last year.

3. He was coming off an injury. 9 times out of 10 this is a huge red flag for me. Especially when they are over 30. Bodies do start breaking down as age advances. Look at the last 3 years. It's a bad pattern.

Sure, it is a concern, but that is why they didn't pay him anything. He also played 114 games. You don't play through an injury or two with a streak like that.

Ryan Young...Marco Rivera...now Fabini. He can still prove me wrong, but I'm going to be shocked if he does. I'll gladly eat crow and I am rooting for him. Faith in him? Not much.

Well, that is quite the optimistic approach.

4. I never thought he was all that good in the first place. JMO.

Yet you are rooting for Petitti to win the job full time? Did you see him play last year?

5. There were other options, including the Draft if we wanted to address the OL. There were other Free Agents.

Do a search for my post on OL. High draft picks and throwing big money at the OL rarely works. Schaffer was the only other tackle candidate I can think of off the top of my head and he got big money as a LT candidate.

6. I felt the starting OTs were better than the interior line. If you go back and check I really wanted LeCharles Bentley, and I've recently menioned Eric Steinbach. Interior line.

Really? I must have imagined the plethora of sacks that the tackles were giving up. Must have been an illusion that the offense went in the crapper once Flozell went down.

Spending big money on interior linemen is a serious mistake in my opinion. Again, search for my offensive line thread (about how the top lines in the NFL have been built). Paying Steinbach 5-6 million per year is a much bigger mistake than signing Fabini as a potential stop gap tackle. He isn't available yet anyway, so why are we discussing him like he was even an option?

I knew this was going to come back to jealousy over Petitti somehow. I saw something in the kid, naturally I must be a flag waver.

It does come back to Petitti. Like any fan, I hope he pans out. Last year didn't leave me with a lot of optimism. I'm glad he worked hard and seems to have improved physically, but I think he has a lot more fans around here because his Dad posts around here. It probably shouldn't be due to his performance.

It's just like the Quincy fans. Any threat to their guy and the competition is the enemy.

I have no way of knowing. Neither do you. As a forum we knew from his Dad that he wasn't satisfied with the way 2005 ended. I tend to think a player who plays through injuries, and loses 40 pounds, to be someone who is showing dedication. When a player like that isn't satisfied good things can happen.

Sure, I hope so too. There have also been a lot of hard workers that didn't make it in the NFL though.

Parcells also raved about Vinny being able to squat 400 pounds. Forgive me if I'm not sold on every subject Parcells raves about but I'm not. I wasn't sold on Fabini. Parcells assurances weren't going to change my mind.

Vinny also played in the league for 19 years. Parcells may have been on to something regarding his conditioning.

A guy with that kind of knowledge and a familiarity with what Parcells likes to do is like having another coach on the field and in the film room. I fail to see how that isn't a good thing.

So, if Fabini never measures up physically and gets cut, yet Petitti credits him for developing him into a tackle, is it a bad signing then?

Past tense. Prove it now. If he can, great. I'll give him credit. Most reports I've heard, including a couple not posted, aren't good.

And who has looked good on the OL? Defense is always ahead of the offense. Especially if you haven't played since November. I'll wait and see myself before I make rash declarations after 4 practices.

As I already said, I was more comfortable at OT than I am at LG, C, and RG. In other words, Colledge is only one option, there were others.

Right. I like seeing QBs sacked too.

I must have missed where I am selling Columbo. You keep bringing him up like I'm am beating the guy's drum. I'm not. As far as I am concerned we still need to address the OL depth. Hence why I've been mentioning Eric Steinbach lately.

Because the options are RT without Fabini are Colombo and Petitti. I know you aren't selling Colombo. You are squarely in Petitti's corner. I don't want the options at a position to be a guy who failed miserably last year and a guy who is trying to overcome a potentially career ending set of injuries. Hence, Fabini.

What good does Steinbach do this team this year? It is irrelevant to the discussion. Of course, Dallas needs to address the OL.

I wasn't intending to come across as smug, but if that's how you read it, that's how you read it. I was mostly just joking with MW because we took a lot of flack for not wanting him from long before he signed. Once he actually signed, we took some more flack. Now that he isn't impressing it's wrong for us to give some of the flack back. It makes us smug. Okay. Whatever.

I guess I get annoyed see a bunch of back slapping over the poor play of a player that I consider somewhat critical to the team's success.