Twitter: OTA Tweets Jun 2

[gimmesix]

It's so frustrating to watch that, but thanks for posting it. Clearly shows it's Biadasz's technique that is so wrong. Watch it...the first mistake Biadasz made was standing straight up and even leaning back on his heels. He was beat before the Nose Guard even touched him. Laws of Leverage. Doesn't matter how strong any Center could be, if you snap the shotgun snap, stand up straight up and start your stance on your heels, you're going to get pushed back 5+ yards easily by a bullrushing Nose Guard. This is why I dislike and distrust Joe Philbin so much. The Cowboys game was late in the season. Simple technique mistakes like this should not be happening by your 2nd your Center whom you have given starting reps for the past 2 years.

That was Frederick. Just showing that even centers considered the best get whipped badly at times. Biadasz has a lot to work on, but him getting pushed back 5+ yards a few times last season doesn't mean he can't be a very good center. Obviously, we want him to limit that, but he did much better at it later in the season.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I've got mechanics tools...metric and SAE...

We'll send you to the Star decked out ready to make repairs...

I'm picturing Goober Pyle or that guy on the old commercial about an automatic transmission.

 

[gimmesix]

Jerry Ball did it to Mark Stepnoski in the 90s.

Yeah, I was going to look up more examples, but decided not to spend too much time on it after finding that Frederick clip.

 

[America's Cowboy]

That was Frederick. Just showing that even centers considered the best get whipped badly at times. Biadasz has a lot to work on, but him getting pushed back 5+ yards a few times last season doesn't mean he can't be a very good center. Obviously, we want him to limit that, but he did much better at it later in the season.

I didn't realize that. I was being distracted while commenting earlier. Regardless if it was Frederick, I still stand on my initial statement: it was poor technique that got Frederick beat on that play.

 

[shabazz]

Just watch, Dak haters will blame Fehoko's drops on Dak by saying how Dak probably threw those passes too high.

…….I was thinking he probably threw it behind him and he tipped it.

 

[America's Cowboy]

…….I was thinking he probably threw it behind him and he tipped it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think unless Tyler Smith struggles or has to be moved to tackle because of Tyron's health, we'll see a big difference in Biadasz having power players on each side of him. On most pass plays, the center and a guard double-team one of the four pass rushers (if there's no blitz). On most run plays up the middle, the center and a guard start off with a double on the center's man with the guard peeling off to the second level.

I'm not saying we shouldn't want better play from our center, but last year was reflective of not only Biadasz having some struggles at times but Williams' struggles next to him.

On middle runs, its just as you say. You have power at both guard spots then the C can combo and peel as opposed to having to stay home on the double. It also makes it so that you can root out monsters like Vea who can normally sit on double teams.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's so frustrating to watch that, but thanks for posting it. Clearly shows it's Biadasz's technique that is so wrong. Watch it...the first mistake Biadasz made was standing straight up and even leaning back on his heels. He was beat before the Nose Guard even touched him. Laws of Leverage. Doesn't matter how strong any Center could be, if you snap the shotgun snap, stand up straight up and start your stance on your heels, you're going to get pushed back 5+ yards easily by a bullrushing Nose Guard. This is why I dislike and distrust Joe Philbin so much. The Cowboys game was late in the season. Simple technique mistakes like this should not be happening by your 2nd your Center whom you have given starting reps for the past 2 years.

That is just a nose who got a good jump attacking the snap hand. That is not a technique issue but a power issue. As has been pointed out you can more easily help on those types of isoes when you cna slide both ways. When one side is weak the defense can overload and guarantee an isolation.

 

[gimmesix]

I didn't realize that. I was being distracted while commenting earlier. Regardless if it was Frederick, I still stand on my initial statement: it was poor technique that got Frederick beat on that play.

100 percent agree. Sometimes you just get whipped. The defender gets off the ball quicker and gets the leverage advantage. And sometimes poor technique gets you. The point is that there are times a center is going to get beaten badly, no matter who the center is. The thing we need to see from Biadasz is that he can keep the number of times that happens limited. He's going to have times that they isolate him and will have to hold up against some stout linemen when they do that.

 

[America's Cowboy]

That is just a nose who got a good jump attacking the snap hand. That is not a technique issue but a power issue. As has been pointed out you can more easily help on those types of isoes when you cna slide both ways. When one side is weak the defense can overload and guarantee an isolation.

Bullcrap. Have you played the position? What would you know? If you're a Center, you're the one who knows when you're going to snap the ball, not the opponent. That was clearly a technique issue.

 

[America's Cowboy]

100 percent agree. Sometimes you just get whipped. The defender gets off the ball quicker and gets the leverage advantage. And sometimes poor technique gets you. The point is that there are times a center is going to get beaten badly, no matter who the center is. The thing we need to see from Biadasz is that he can keep the number of times that happens limited. He's going to have times that they isolate him and will have to hold up against some stout linemen when they do that.

I still somewhat disagree, because the Center is the one who knows when he's going to snap the ball. Not the Nose Guard. Had Frederick had better technique on that play, he wouldn't have gotten so easily beat.

 

[fivetwos]

That isn't saying much considering the Oline performed terrible in that playoff loss vs the 49ers.

They certainly were, but I thought it predated that game as well.

I wonder if the OL was at a bit of a disadvantage due to predictability.

I realize Tyron got hurt, etc, but they seemed to go from really good to pretty awful out of nowhere.

Thoughts?

 

[gimmesix]

I still somewhat disagree, because the Center is the one who knows when he's going to snap the ball. Not the Nose Guard. Had Frederick had better technique on that play, he wouldn't have gotten so easily beat.

But the nose guard is right there watching the ball. If he moves at the snap, the center still has to get the ball to the quarterback and then get his hand back in front for placement. If a nose tackle gets a great jump, he can get into the center's body before he can get his hand back in position. That's one reason we often see the guard chuck the NT, to cause enough hesitation to allow the center to set up. It's also one of the reasons you protect the center since he has to snap the ball and block. When it's a one-on-one block, that's tough on a center if the NT gets a great jump.

 

[America's Cowboy]

But the nose guard is right there watching the ball. If he moves at the snap, the center still has to get the ball to the quarterback and then get his hand back in front for placement. If a nose tackle gets a great jump, he can get into the center's body before he can get his hand back in position. That's one reason we often see the guard chuck the NT, to cause enough hesitation to allow the center to set up. It's also one of the reasons you protect the center since he has to snap the ball and block. When it's a one-on-one block, that's tough on a center if the NT gets a great jump.

I played the position and very well. A Center can master his technique and snap very well at the same time IF HE IS TRAINED PROPERLY and IF HE IS ABLE TO PICK IT UP (both mentally and physically). It's not easy. Once you learn how to, you are hard to be beat like that.

 

[gimmesix]

Bullcrap. Have you played the position? What would you know? If you're a Center, you're the one who knows when you're going to snap the ball, not the opponent. That was clearly a technique issue.

I think it's a good example of the help block not working. It looks like Martin was there to help, but the NT went to Frederick's left. The LG was occupied by design of the defense, so he didn't peel off the double until it was too late to help. Martin essentially ended up blocking no one. Frederick either had to hold the block long enough for help to get there, which he didn't, or force the NT to have to go around him to the right where he had help, which he didn't.

Of course, this isn't about Frederick. I was just using him to make a point. I believe on the two times I remember that Biadasz got driven into the QB, the NT (Vea, Hargrave) just bulled him off the snap. On the Hargrave one, it looked like Williams should have offered him initial help. But my memory is rusty, so I'd have to check. Don't know if Biadasz just did a poor job of setting his lower body on those snaps, but both of those defenders are hard to stop one-on-one, especially if they get a good jump on the snap.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bullcrap. Have you played the position? What would you know? If you're a Center, you're the one who knows when you're going to snap the ball, not the opponent. That was clearly a technique issue.

Your going have to do more than big time me if you want to compel anyone to your point of view.

I know that the center has to snap the ball. I know the motion of bringing the ball back and bacckup is about a steps worth of time.

I know that defenses over the past 40 years teach their nose tackles to attack the snap hand. I know that when a DL gets inside your pads with leverage and a better get off you cannot just sit down unless you want to get ragdolled. You have to take steps back and recover. Fred got turned as he stepped back. That is straight up a strength issue. Not one that many C in the league can overcome with that type of advantage to the defender.

But hey if your such an expert you should be able to school me on the technique. That you don't even try tells me you have nothing.

 

[gimmesix]

I played the position and very well. A Center can master his technique and snap very well at the same time IF HE IS TRAINED PROPERLY and IF HE IS ABLE TO PICK IT UP (both mentally and physically). It's not easy. Once you learn how to, you are hard to be beat like that.

And most of the time, that works. Sometimes, just like with any lineman, the defender just gets a good jump. Ware was a master of that, so much so that they would call him offside at times when he wasn't. For a center, it's especially tough when a lineman jumps the snap count no matter how much he has mastered the technique.

 

[America's Cowboy]

I think it's a good example of the help block not working. It looks like Martin was there to help, but the NT went to Frederick's left. The LG was occupied by design of the defense, so he didn't peel off the double until it was too late to help. Martin essentially ended up blocking no one. Frederick either had to hold the block long enough for help to get there, which he didn't, or force the NT to have to go around him to the right where he had help, which he didn't.

I don't have the time to fully explain what Frederick did wrong on that play. For starters, he didn't fire out (semi-step and punch forward). Secondly, he stands straight up and is on his heels. He's pretty much already beat by a quick, strong and aggressive NT like seen on the gif.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think it's a good example of the help block not working. It looks like Martin was there to help, but the NT went to Frederick's left. The LG was occupied by design of the defense, so he didn't peel off the double until it was too late to help. Martin essentially ended up blocking no one. Frederick either had to hold the block long enough for help to get there, which he didn't, or force the NT to have to go around him to the right where he had help, which he didn't.

I'm to the point where I am no longer going to waste my time.

It is clear that we can and will talk about the technique scheme etc. All his doing is making unsupported assertions and appeals to authority. He is not arguing in good faith.

 

[America's Cowboy]

Your going have to do more than big time me if you want to compel anyone to your point of view.

I know that the center has to snap the ball. I know the motion of bringing the ball back and bacckup is about a steps worth of time.

I know that defenses over the past 40 years teach their nose tackles to attack the snap hand. I know that when a DL gets inside your pads with leverage and a better get off you cannot just sit down unless you want to get ragdolled. You have to take steps back and recover. Fred got turned as he stepped back. That is straight up a strength issue. Not one that many C in the league can overcome with that type of advantage to the defender.

But hey if your such an expert you should be able to school me on the technique. That you don't even try tells me you have nothing.

You simply don't know because you never played the position, you never experienced what Frederick went through, and you never were trained to understand how to beat from getting beat like that.