Our defense is gonna be scary good

[silver]

it better be:

we've only spent our last 6 first round draft choices there. 7 if you include ekuban. so yes it better be damn scary finally.

 

[dbair1967]

we have added some more talent and alot of our young talent has more experience now, which are a both positives

that said, I am still worried about Mike Zimmer...he has never shown an ability to build a defense that can create turnovers and rush the passer with any consistency...they dont even stop the run with any real consistency on a yr to yr basis

the guy gets more excuses made for him than any coach we've ever had, but the fact is he has a 6yr track record of producing average defenses...and please dont go quoting me stats on yards allowed from 2003 either, because there is ALOT more to being a great or even good defense than just yards allowed...good coaches dont see their defenses taken to the woodshed anywhere near as often as Zimmer's defenses have...alot of the more embarrasing defensive games in franchise history (particularly since Jones has taken over) have been with him as coordinator

until he proves otherwise, he is just another average coach...and almost any other franchise probably would have fired him by now IMO...the excuses should be over for him now, if this years defense is no better than average he will be canned and IMO wont ever be an NFL defensive coordinator again

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

the guy gets more excuses made for him than any coach we've ever had, but the fact is he has a 6yr track record of producing average defenses...

it's because Zimmer has taken no talent on D and turned them into average unit, while our offensive coaches havent' been able to do that with no talent on O, yes, Zimmer isn't the greatest coordinator, but he does better than most with little to no talent, and last year, once we started to get talent, his unit fared better than most Ds in their 1st year in the 3-4

 

[Bob Sacamano]

alot of the more embarrasing defensive games in franchise history (particularly since Jones has taken over) have been with him as coordinator

and yet alot of the more embarrasing D games in franchise history have come with most of the more embarrasing talent level we've ever assembled on D

if this years defense is no better than average he will be canned and IMO wont ever be an NFL defensive coordinator again

David

last year's D was better than average, and we improved the talent level, I see no reason why our D can't improve, and if Payton can get an HC gig, then Zimmer will definitely get another coordinating job

 

[dbair1967]

it's because Zimmer has taken no talent on D and turned them into average unit, while our offense coaches havent' been able to do that with no talent on O, yes, Zimmer isn't the greatest coordinator, but he does better than most with little to no talent, and last year, once we started to get talent, his unit fared better than most Ds in their 1st year in the 3-4

the uses of draft picks since 1998 suggest otherwise

also add in the team has spent bookoo's of $$$ on free agency on defense, and what you said just doesnt add up at all

I'd say he has proven without a shadow of doubt to do less with more than anyone...contrast that with someone like Greg Williams in Washington, who CLEARLY does do more with less than anyone out there

and has there been ANY yr since he's been the defensive coordinator that we got BETTER as the season wore on, instead of WORSE?

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

the uses of draft picks since 1998 suggest otherwise

Jerry's draft picks

also add in the team has spent bookoo's of $$$ on free agency on defense, and what you said just doesnt add up at all

again, Jerry, the only money we spent that was well worth it was last year, and for a good 5 years, we didn't spend any money because we couldn't, we had our most productive D in terms of sacks and turnovers in awhile, in the 1st year in a new scheme

I'd say he has proven without a shadow of doubt to do less with more than anyone...contrast that with someone like Greg Williams in Washington, who CLEARLY does do more with less than anyone out there

look at the stats of the Commander and Cowboy's D last year

and has there been ANY yr since he's been the defensive coordinator that we got BETTER as the season wore on, instead of WORSE?

David

no, but we've never improved the talent level, from the talent level we never had on D before

 

[dbair1967]

and yet alot of the more embarrasing D games in franchise history have come with most of the more embarrasing talent level we've ever assembled on D



last year's D was better than average, and we improved the talent level, I see no reason why our D can't improve, and if Payton can get an HC gig, then Zimmer will definitely get another coordinating job

really? whats so embarrasing about guys like LaRoi Glover, Greg Ellis, Terrance Newman, Roy Williams, Dexter Coakley, Dat Nguyen, Darren Woodson, Ryan McNeil etc etc etc

as for last yrs defense...we ranked 10th in total yards allowed but gave up more than 300 a game...thats average...we ranked 12th in pts allowed at 19.3, which is slighly above avg...we ranked 15th in rush yds allowed, which is average...we tied for 22nd in rush yds per carry allowed, which is poor...we tied for 15rth in yds per pass attempt allowed, thats average...we tied for 19th in interceptions made, thats BELOW average and tied for 14th in the league in sacks, which is average

you were saying?

David

 

[Bob Sacamano]

really? whats so embarrasing about guys like LaRoi Glover, Greg Ellis, Terrance Newman, Roy Williams, Dexter Coakley, Dat Nguyen, Darren Woodson, Ryan McNeil etc etc etc

yeah, we were loaded with talent

we tied for 19th in interceptions made, thats BELOW average and tied for 14th in the league in sacks, which is average

you were saying?

David

you got me above, but we improved our sack and turnover total from any of the 5 previous years, with more talent...hmmm

 

[Eskimo]

This defense could be very good but I think most people here really overrate last year's defense. It played well in the first half of the year but then really struggled over the last 6 games of the season when we collapsed. Now injuries probably did play a role here with Singleton, Nguyen and Henry being sidelined but I don't think that entirely explains it.

During the first part of the year, most teams would try to run against us but they would tend to go away from it even though they were having success as judged by yards per carry.

Over the second half of the season, teams decided to try and pound it against us and they lots of success running up the middle and running at Fujita. Now Fujita is gone and we have tried to beef up the middle with Akin but I don't think this defense can make the next step up unless Fergy plays considerably better this year. Too often he only managed to engage the center and not control one of the OGs which made the ILBs look worse than they really were.

Now hopefully he is healthier this year and plays better.

I do have a worry that Parcells seems to be the only 3-4 guy out there who wants his NTs to be "thin". The best run-stuffing NTs out there usually got a bit of a belly and weigh more in the 330-350 pound range - Jamal Williams, Pat Williams, Ted Washington, Casey Hampton, Vince Wilfork. I know the bigger guy isn't as quick and won't get much penetration but the extra weight does make you harder to move and does improve your overall strength. I think given the demands of the position, it is probably better to get a guy who is a bit fatter.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

the D faltering in the 2nd half was the product of facing tough Os, being in the 1st year in a new scheme, and not having all the right personnel

 

[Typhus]

Make no mistake, Parcells has made a conscious effort to get the Cowboys bigger on defense, and for good reason: You can't play this 3-4 defense with a bunch of munchkins running around out there. Speed is one thing. But when you need linebackers standing up on the line of scrimmage on the edges and when you need defensive linemen big enough to keep the riff-raff off your inside linebackers, you had better go big.

Let's compare what Parcells inherited and what he has been able to assemble in four free-agent off-seasons and four drafts.

When Parcells emerged from his Jersey cocoon back in 2003, here is what became his first starting defensive line: Greg Ellis and Ebenezer Ekuban at defensive end and La'Roi Glover and Willie Blade (his idea) at defensive tackle.

Blade, of course, was the heaviest at 315 pounds. No one else weighed more than Glover, who checked in that year at 285, but probably was closer to 280 by time the season began.

So check this out: The average height and weight of the starting front four was 6-3½, 285½ pounds, and most of that heft comes compliments of Blade, who was 20 pounds heavier than the next heaviest, and a good 50 pounds heavier than the lightest (Ekuban, 265).

Then there were the linebackers, and this is not to say they weren't good players, because Dat Nguyen and Dexter Coakley were fine NFL linebackers in a 4-3 scheme. It's just that neither was 6-foot. Neither was 245 soaking wet.

As for the third guy, and this somewhat surprised me, but when he arrived here on that four-year free-agent deal from Tampa Bay, fresh off winning a Super Bowl ring, he weighed in at only 228 pounds. I mean, he's 250 now - or so they say. But then, at least he was 6-2, towering over the other two guys by comparison.

So check this out, too: The average height and weight of the starting linebackers back in 2003 was 6-foot, 236 pounds.

Now then, let's compare to today, or at least what we project will eventually become the starting front seven. The three in the 3-4 should be Marcus Spears, Ferguson and Chris Canty, with Greg Ellis, Jay Ratliff, Jason Hatcher, Stanley and possibly Thomas Johnson backing them up. Kenyon Coleman also still is there, but a non-starter heading into his fifth season automatically puts him on the bubble.

Of those guys, Ellis is the lightest at 280. That's a far cry from 2003. I mean, the starters likely will go 294 (Spears), 310 (Feguson) and 295 (Canty). And to think Spears and Canty are just second-year players.

So the current average up front would be 6-5, 300 - nearly two inches taller and 15 pounds heavier than 2003.

Then for the four, or the starting linebackers. At this point looks like that will be DeMarcus Ware, Bradie James, Akin Ayodele and eventually, if all goes well, Carpenter. That would be 255, 250, 246 and 254. And no munchkins. All at least 6-2, with Ware checking in at 6-4.

Add it all up, the projected starting linebackers will average 6-2½, 251 pounds - 2½ inches taller and 15 pounds heavier. And that sure won't change much if Singleton starts off at left outside linebacker since he's now 250.

A serious growth spurt up front.

Not only that, a youth spurt, if you will. OK, Ferguson is the old man of the starting bunch in the front seven. He'll be 32 just after Thanksgiving.

But after that, Ayodele is the next oldest. He's going to turn all of 27 when the Cowboys meet Washington the second game of the season.

And, while we're on this defensive age kick, and since we're not sure of what will happen at free safety, if we look at the other three starters back there, Anthony Henry will be the only other 30-year-old starter, but that won't happen until Nov. 3, two days before the ninth game of the season.

Now the Cowboys might have one more Thirtysomething starter if veteran Marcus Coleman should win the free safety job. He turns 32 May 24. But if he doesn't, that likely means the free safety is either Keith Davis (27) or Justin Beriault (25 in August) or rookie Pat Watkins (23).

All meaning the Cowboys have gotten bigger and younger simultaneously on defense, so you would have to admit, health willing, this is a pretty good defensive foundation that's been laid here in just four off-seasons.

And if compared to 2003, a much more sturdy one, too.

 

[AbeBeta]

This defense could be very good but I think most people here really overrate last year's defense.

I think last year's D could have been great.

If the O didn't suck.

Had we been able to score more then our D would have been in a much better situation -- all those close games wear a defense down. We were very good against the pass (don't let the Skins game fool you) but below average against the run.

We played close games where teams didn't have to abandon the run. The O gets better and opponents have to pass more.

 

[bobbie brewskie]

i dont think people realize how good akin ayodele is, the guy is easily as good as Dat Ngyuen, yea dat recorded tons of tackles but if you watch ayodele play you will see, the guy can ball and will definately do what Ngyuen did if not more.

 

[The30YardSlant]

How you can say our defense will be "dominant", at least this year, is beyond me. We are relying on 4 players (Spears, Ware, Canty, Carpenter) in our front 7 to be starters that have 1 year or less experiance. That is not the making of a dominant defense, no matter how good they are.

 

[Eskimo]

I think last year's D could have been great.

If the O didn't suck.

Had we been able to score more then our D would have been in a much better situation -- all those close games wear a defense down. We were very good against the pass (don't let the Skins game fool you) but below average against the run.

We played close games where teams didn't have to abandon the run. The O gets better and opponents have to pass more.

I agree that the pass defense was very good last year for the most part. This was especially true when we had Tnew, Henry and AGlenn manning the 3 CB spots.

I also agree that the run D was a big weakness last year and I am not yet convinced it has been adequately addressed. I do agree the ILB spot should be improved with Akin and the OLB spot will be better with either Singleton or Carpenter manning the spot. I also expect Canty and Spears to be better. My big concern is the play of Fergy - he was underwhelming last year, especially in the second half of the year. Hopefully Stanley develops quickly and can give him a series or two off a game.

 

[jem88]

yeah, we were loaded with talent

Maybe not loaded, but hardly an embarrasment (talent-wise.) This year, it's time for Zimmer to put it all together. There are no excuses now.

 

[The Answer]

The switch to the 3-4 defense has been one of the best moves Parcells has made since becoming coach of this team. And now with the addition of Carpenter, Adoyle, and Hatcher we have more than enough fresh bodies to throw at offenses over the course of a full game with complex blitz packages.

I'm still apprehensive over the FS position, but I'm optimistic that the combination of Coleman/Davis/Watkins can get it done. However I prefer that one of them emerges as the clear cut starter this summer and proves to be THE ANSWER.

This defense needs to wreak havoc and create turnovers to set up the offense with short fields, if they do that I could care less about whether they finish 1st overall or 10th overall, either way they should be a top unit.

~The Answer

 

[Bob Sacamano]

How you can say our defense will be "dominant", at least this year, is beyond me. We are relying on 4 players (Spears, Ware, Canty, Carpenter) in our front 7 to be starters that have 1 year or less experiance. That is not the making of a dominant defense, no matter how good they are.

I knew it was only a matter of time before someone started *****ing about us being too young on D, 1st it was we're too old, now we're too young? I don't know, but having alot of supremely talented youngsters who know how to play the 3-4 now is the making of a very good D, now, and in the future

 

[cowboyeric8]

I don't know about scary good, but good nonetheless, still some inexperience and you never know about the injury bug

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Maybe not loaded, but hardly an embarrasment (talent-wise.)

in the front 4 and secondary, yes it was

This year, it's time for Zimmer to put it all together. There are no excuses now.

yep, I fully understand that, but all I'm asking from the Zimmer bashers is to wait and see what he can do with a D fit with the personnel to run it successfully, coaching can only take you so far