Our pass rush is putrid

[joseephuss]

I certainly don't think he is bad - those who go to that extreme or just part of the increasing group of people that tend to overexaggerate everything. Ware is unquestinoably a good player, but he is probably not at the level many wanted to put him at early on. If, somehow, he could develop different moves and learn to find different ways to get to the QB rather than just the outside speed rush he can again reach some pretty impressive levels.

He has already reached some impressive levels. Some here are saying he is not as good as Freeney, but Ware actually gets more sacks than Freeney.

 

[Stautner]

He has already reached some impressive levels. Some here are saying he is not as good as Freeney, but Ware actually gets more sacks than Freeney.

The problem is the "has" is from the past. I previously posted these words:

Ware was very successful for a couple of years while relying on his pure athleticism and speed, but at this point team know he is a one dimensional pass rusher - he relies almost exclusevilly on his speed move to the outside, and OT's are more prepared to deal with that now. Ware is getting a lot more 1 on 1 blocking than he used to, but he is having less success than he used to.

What I was saying is that for him to get back to the success he had a couple of years ago he needs to improve his chances of getting to the QB by incorporating more moves.

That's not to say I think he is a bad player now. I think he is still a wuality player, he just ins't quite the impact player he has been in the past. He is not consistently pressuring the QB, and it's not because of consistent double teams like he once faced. As long as he stays one-dimensional he will not be the feared/dominant player he started out to be.

 

[joseephuss]

The problem is the "has" is from the past. I previously posted these words:

Ware was very successful for a couple of years while relying on his pure athleticism and speed, but at this point team know he is a one dimensional pass rusher - he relies almost exclusevilly on his speed move to the outside, and OT's are more prepared to deal with that now. Ware is getting a lot more 1 on 1 blocking than he used to, but he is having less success than he used to.

What I was saying is that for him to get back to the success he had a couple of years ago he needs to improve his chances of getting to the QB by incorporating more moves.

That's not to say I think he is a bad player now. I think he is still a wuality player, he just ins't quite the impact player he has been in the past. He is not consistently pressuring the QB, and it's not because of consistent double teams like he once faced. As long as he stays one-dimensional he will not be the feared/dominant player he started out to be.

Freeney has more than one move and still Ware has more sacks than Freeney this season. I've watched Ware all season and he seems pretty dominant to me. I don't think he is above criticism, but I do think much of the criticism thrown his way is nit picking.

 

[Stautner]

Freeney has more than one move and still Ware has more sacks than Freeney this season. I've watched Ware all season and he seems pretty dominant to me. I don't think he is above criticism, but I do think much of the criticism thrown his way is nit picking.

Your discussion about Freeney is with someone else, not me. I am not comparing the two. I don't feel I know enough about Freeney's play game in and game out to discuss him. Everything I have discussed is strictly about Ware.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

The OT blocking Ware was pushed back into Manning on the Lee interception. The OT hit Manning's plant leg during the throw. This contact with the OT prevented Manning from putting everything into that throw. That pressure goes to Ware.

On the final interception, Manning had to step up away from pressure and then try to throw the ball kind of while hopping in the air. He didn't get to step into the throw because of the pressure.

I just re-watched all the picks on youtube and didn't see that any pressure caused Manning to throw any of those picks. By the time Ware got there he was already cocked and throwing and I couldn't see where anyone hit Manning's leg. All his throws just looked like bad decisions and all the throws had plenty of "umf" on'em, just bad reads.

 

[tomsanders921]

Well, considering that the Colts on average allow Manning to be sacked about 12 times a year, I'd say it would've been stupid to expect us to go in there and run up a bunch of sacks.

Also, do you really think there was no pressure on him? You think those 4 picks didn't happen because he had to throw the ball sooner than he wanted to? On Lee's 2nd pick, he most definitely got picked because Ware was in his face and he didn't see Jenkins being as close as he was.
:laugh2:

That 12 sacks stat doesn't tell the hole story. The chargers knocked him down over and over last week. They were in there just about every play. We were not even close half the time

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

Despite the constant chirping of some fans, D-Ware does not only have one move. He routinely bull rushes tackles back into the QB, and that is most definitely not an outside speed rush. Is the speed rush his best move? Yes. Is it his only one? Not a chance.

 

[Stautner]

Despite the constant chirping of some fans, D-Ware does not only have one move. He routinely bull rushes tackles back into the QB, and that is most definitely not an outside speed rush. Is the speed rush his best move? Yes. Is it his only one? Not a chance.

He routinely tries to bull rush, but it almost never actually gets back to the QB. All it accomplishes most of the time is to shrink the pocket a little, but it poses no real threat of getting to the QB.

 

[Kevinicus]

I just re-watched all the picks on youtube and didn't see that any pressure caused Manning to throw any of those picks. By the time Ware got there he was already cocked and throwing and I couldn't see where anyone hit Manning's leg. All his throws just looked like bad decisions and all the throws had plenty of "umf" on'em, just bad reads.

You're blind if you don't see the guy bumping into Manning, and guys getting closer to the quarterback cause them to **** and throw in an attempt to get it off before they get there...The very definition of pressure.

 

[Venger]

Despite the constant chirping of some fans, D-Ware does not only have one move. He routinely bull rushes tackles back into the QB, and that is most definitely not an outside speed rush. Is the speed rush his best move? Yes. Is it his only one? Not a chance.

He literally tossed his blocker yesterday in the second half. Tossed him. Reminded me of Reggie White. If we can get just ONE MORE pass rusher to beat his man and take away some of the help aimed at blocking Ware, you'd see a huge increase in our pass rush efficacy.

As I said before - even without sacks Ware was upping the tempo on Manning.

I wish someone would post that clip of Ware tossing his blocker like a used kleenex. It was awesome.

 

[Stautner]

You're blind if you don't see the guy bumping into Manning, and guys getting closer to the quarterback cause them to **** and throw in an attempt to get it off before they get there...The very definition of pressure.

There were a couple of moments where the pocket shrunk, maybe once/twice where an O-lineman bumped Manning slightly, but over the course of the game Manning had no real worries whatsoever. The kind of thing you are talking about only becomes a factor when the QB gets hit some and feels a real threat, and that's when a shrinking pocket starts worrying the QB, but when the QB never gets hit and enjoys a secure, rock solid pocket almost every play and only once in awhile feels the pocket shrink a little he really isn't worrying too much.

 

[Kevinicus]

There were a couple of moments where the pocket shrunk, maybe once/twice where an O-lineman bumped Manning slightly, but over the course of the game Manning had no real worries whatsoever. The kind of thing you are talking about only becomes a factor when the QB gets hit some and feels a real threat, and that's when a shrinking pocket starts worrying the QB, but when the QB never gets hit and enjoys a secure, rock solid pocket almost every play and only once in awhile feels the pocket shrink a little he really isn't worrying too much.

I'm talking specific plays, his interceptions, not in general. Ware had pressure on two of them.

 

[Stautner]

I'm talking specific plays, his interceptions, not in general. Ware had pressure on two of them.

I noticed one where the OT was backed up very close to Manning and Manning may have even been jostled slightly. There may have been another. If so, that's good, but it really doesn't constitute much of a pass rush in th context of a game where Manning was essentially able to ptich a tent in the pocket on almost every pass play.

 

[Seven]

I paint the whole house, right. My wife finds one little spot that I missed. Behind a door that's always open.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

You're blind if you don't see the guy bumping into Manning, and guys getting closer to the quarterback cause them to **** and throw in an attempt to get it off before they get there...The very definition of pressure.

No you said originally a lineman bumped his plant foot and I didn't see that. I can see where maybe, MAYBE a O-lineman bumped his plant leg but either way the ball was right there for the receiver had Lee not jumped the route. Manning didn't throw because he was getting pressure, your grasping at straws here. I don't call being in the viscinity of Manning, with a o-lineman on you, getting real pressure. He didn't look hurried or in desparation when he made those throws so I don't attribute those pics to pressure. He just made poor decisions.

 

[RCowboyFan]

No you said originally a lineman bumped his plant foot and I didn't see that. I can see where maybe, MAYBE a O-lineman bumped his plant leg but either way the ball was right there for the receiver had Lee not jumped the route. Manning didn't throw because he was getting pressure, your grasping at straws here. I don't call being in the viscinity of Manning, with a o-lineman on you, getting real pressure. He didn't look hurried or in desparation when he made those throws so I don't attribute those pics to pressure. He just made poor decisions.

You still arguing like an guy who has no clue I see. LIke Aikman said, everyone has an photographic memory, except they don't have the pictures to prove it.

Go rewatch the game again. Ware was ready to sack Manning if he didn't throw the ball when Sean Lee picked it off. But I am sure you will bable something about no pressure and talking with both sides yada yada, and refuse to accept any facts or what actually happened. ALl you care about, Waah, Waah, cowboys didn't sack Manning.... Look and see how great New England is at sacking QB. Oh I forgot pressuring.... What a joke. :laugh2:

 

[Royal Laegotti]

You still arguing like an guy who has no clue I see. LIke Aikman said, everyone has an photographic memory, except they don't have the pictures to prove it.

Go rewatch the game again. Ware was ready to sack Manning if he didn't throw the ball when Sean Lee picked it off. But I am sure you will bable something about no pressure and talking with both sides yada yada, and refuse to accept any facts or what actually happened. ALl you care about, Waah, Waah, cowboys didn't sack Manning.... Look and see how great New England is at sacking QB. Oh I forgot pressuring.... What a joke. :laugh2:

Oh hey, I thought you were finished with this conversation last night, just couldn't help yourself huh! You had to come and "correct" me some more! Not sure what game you watched yesterday, to hear you tell it Dallas destroyed Manning with their "pressure" and wore his jock out! If clueless is going on it's certainly emitting into cyberspace like beer and boiled egg toots from your fingertips. But hey keep telling me your confabulated "facts" about how pressure caused those turnovers. There's "rocket scientists" out there who believe you. Maybe you can start your own cult while your at it also, there's always people out there looking for a blind man to lead them off a cliff.

 

[jblaze2004]

lets not act like Manning wasn't getting hit...but i do believe he felt the pressure

 

[RCowboyFan]

Oh hey, I thought you were finished with this conversation last night, just couldn't help yourself huh! You had to come and "correct" me some more! Not sure what game you watched yesterday, to hear you tell it Dallas destroyed Manning with their "pressure" and wore his jock out! If clueless is going on it's certainly emitting into cyberspace like beer and boiled egg toots from your fingertips. But hey keep telling me your confabulated "facts" about how pressure caused those turnovers. There's "rocket scientists" out there who believe you. Maybe you can start your own cult while your at it also, there's always people out there looking for a blind man to lead them off a cliff.

You keep throwing out how I implied Dallas had great pass rush. Thats most idiotic thing to say. Just read my posts. But seems like Facts are not strong suit, but throwing out names and calling names seem to be yours. I pretty much shot down every one of your claims, but you keep scatter shooting everywhere.

You can't keep one thing straight or keep one fact straight. Its almost like arguing with a 2 year old . Actually scratch that, I can at least reason with 2 year old.

Now I will be off lead some of my followers off the cliff, while you keep dreaming somehow you made sense

 

[Baileyneverfailey]

He routinely tries to bull rush, but it almost never actually gets back to the QB. All it accomplishes most of the time is to shrink the pocket a little, but it poses no real threat of getting to the QB.

He got a sack against Detroit using the bull rush, and he caused 2 picks against Indianapolis using it. So yeah....