Our terrible drafts have put us here

[funkytown]

Well let's don't kid ourselves. Claiborne is not a starter officially because Scandrick is playing lights out. But even so, does Claiborne, Wilbur, Crawford and Hanna not give you depth?

Claiborne and Crawford give you nothing right now because they are hurt.

There is a difference between depth and quality depth. Wilbur and Hanna are below average players, depth by default. You and I could provide depth. Being on the roster qualifies as depth, doesnt mean you are good enough to make a difference.

 

[movaughn88]

I'm not riding any pony. I'm just simply discussing this draft with you. You can sit here and say i'm viewing it with "rose colored glasses" but how about let's look at what other teams have done in the draft the past 3 years and see where it compares? But let me guess, you don't care what other teams are doing? So how can we accurately judge the drafts? What are you basing a good or bad draft on if you don't follow what other teams are doing? Are you basing it on the fact we don't hit on every single draft pick?

I want to be on your side and I am - the drafts for talent have been good. But look where they are. Perimeter postions for the most part. Ok yes we have built our O line, but our D line is a waste. Wilbur doesn't count. Mo has NOT been a shutdown which is what you expect when you draft someone that high. Now I'm left with Selvie being one of my favorite players.

 

[funkytown]

It is easy to see who is producing and who isn't. Sorry if I expect a top 10 draft pick to be elite. I guess the joke is on me. I don't know about you, but I don't trade up to #6 in the draft to get a backup corner.

And that is the problem with our drafts. The production of our picks do not merit their draft selections. They underachieve. When you trade up to the top 10, give up a 2nd rounder, that player needs to be elite. Especially by his 2nd season. Claiborne is not, and I dont think he ever will be. Could he end up being an average starter for the next years

 

[CyberB0b]

I want to be on your side and I am - the drafts for talent have been good. But look where they are. Perimeter postions for the most part. Ok yes we have built our O line, but our D line is a waste. Wilbur doesn't count. Mo has NOT been a shutdown which is what you expect when you draft someone that high. Now I'm left with Selvie being one of my favorite players.

Yes, you get it. It's pretty sad with all that we have invested on the defense in draft and FA dollars that Barry Church and George Selvie are the beacons of hope, while guys like Sean Lee get hurt, Bruce Carter loafs around and gets benched for Ernie Sims off the scrap heap, and Mo Claiborne sucks when he isn't injured.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Well, Claiborne and Crawford are physically unable to get on the field, so by definition, they don't give you depth. Wilbur and Hanna are a dime a dozen type players. If Hanna was the answer, they wouldn't have gone after Escobar.

I think they went after Escobar because of his size and the potential damage he can do with this offense. He gives Romo a bigger target. I don't think his draft position had anything to do with Hanna. Two different type of tight ends.

It is easy to see who is producing and who isn't. Sorry if I expect a top 10 draft pick to be elite. I guess the joke is on me. I don't know about you, but I don't trade up to #6 in the draft to get a backup corner.

Oh I don't either. I also don't expect a 2nd year cornerback to be a "elite" player though. Low expectations on my part I guess.

I want to be on your side and I am - the drafts for talent have been good. But look where they are. Perimeter postions for the most part. Ok yes we have built our O line, but our D line is a waste. Wilbur doesn't count. Mo has NOT been a shutdown which is what you expect when you draft someone that high. Now I'm left with Selvie being one of my favorite players.

I agree with you but at the same time you don't become a shutdown corner in your 1st or 2nd year as a cornerback. It does take time. Time we may not have but that's the risk you take when you draft corners that high.

Claiborne and Crawford give you nothing right now because they are hurt.

There is a difference between depth and quality depth. Wilbur and Hanna are below average players, depth by default. You and I could provide depth. Being on the roster qualifies as depth, doesnt mean you are good enough to make a difference.

Well it sounds like you expect pro bowlers at backup spots as well. Backups in this league are goign to be average to below average players. What they contribute to you is whatever your positional coaches get out of those guys.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yes, you get it. It's pretty sad with all that we have invested on the defense in draft and FA dollars that Barry Church and George Selvie are the beacons of hope, while guys like Sean Lee get hurt, Bruce Carter loafs around and gets benched for Ernie Sims off the scrap heap, and Mo Claiborne sucks when he isn't injured.

Bruce Carter should've never been benched for Ernie Sims. Bruce Carter was used as a scapegoat for a terrible defense and was used to set an example for the rest of the younger guys. But make no mistake Ernie Sims was not outplaying Bruce. He was playing well enough to warrant more playing time and it failed miserably and it proved he was inferior to Bruce Carter.

 

[CyberB0b]

Bruce Carter should've never been benched for Ernie Sims. Bruce Carter was used as a scapegoat for a terrible defense and was used to set an example for the rest of the younger guys. But make no mistake Ernie Sims was not outplaying Bruce. He was playing well enough to warrant more playing time and it failed miserably and it proved he was inferior to Bruce Carter.

Did you see him play tonight? There was a complete lack of effort. If they weren't down to their #4 and #5 LBs, he would have been benched again.

 

[BigStar]

We keep hyping up a lot of the players selected over the last 3-4 years, but how well have we really done?

Not going to comment on this year's draft. Still early.

2012:

Claiborne - We traded up to #6 for this guy? Can't stay healthy, can't play.
Crawford - Who knows?
The rest of the draft was terrible. Matt Johnson FTW

2011:

Smith - I really liked this pick, but the kid hasn't played up to his draft status. Not a lockdown LT. Just OK
Carter- Can't stay healthy and has regressed a ton this year. Looks like his work ethic is gone.
Murray - Can't stay healthy.
Harris - Good contributor.

2010:

Bryant - Can't put a complete game together. People saying he is # 2 behind Calvin are smoking something. He still has a lot of work.
Lee - Can't finish a season.
The rest of the draft was terrible.

2009: LOL

This is one huge reason why we suck. We have been hyping these guys up, but most of them are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

Agree with this, but do we really want to accept the worst coach in NFL to COMPLIMENT this crap of talent? Yes it can be both, crap coaching on top of crap talent. But if you have a decent QB and decent weapons, you can win in this new Arena style league.

 

[CyberB0b]

Agree with this, but do we really want to accept the worst coach in NFL to COMPLIMENT this crap of talent?

He has his fingerprints all over these drafts, so he is responsible, along with Owner/President/GM Falseface.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Did you see him play tonight? There was a complete lack of effort. If they weren't down to their #4 and #5 LBs, he would have been benched again.

I saw him play tonight. He was as bad as Romo was at quarterback, as bad as Dez was at receiver....I didn't get the impression he was loafing around. You might have to give me those plays because the only real bad play I saw him make was the "horse collar" that wasn't even a horse collar.

 

[wileedog]

The OL has improved drastically from last year..

No, it really hasn't. We are 25th in rushing in the league. Romo still has barely a few seconds to throw, particularly without Waters. Free has gone from Rob Pettiti levels to "not a fire hydrant." He still has too many penalties.

Smith is improving and Fredrick has been better than could be expected. Other than that, this is still not not a quality OL by any measure.

As for the DL, we had depth. When you hit your 17th player. im pretty sure no team in this history of the NFL has had that kind of depth at any position group.

Who after the first 4 were good? Ware, Rat, Hatcher and Spencer could be considered a good, even above average line. Who was here after that? What was the rotation? Selvie et al are being exposed with more playing time, and what DL worth a darn were here after them?

 

[BigStar]

I saw him play tonight. He was as bad as Romo was at quarterback, as bad as Dez was at receiver....I didn't get the impression he was loafing around. You might have to give me those plays because the only real bad play I saw him make was the "horse collar" that wasn't even a horse collar.

Carter was over aggressive and missing tackles but he wasn't waffling. Maybe winded?

 

[CyberB0b]

I saw him play tonight. He was as bad as Romo was at quarterback, as bad as Dez was at receiver....I didn't get the impression he was loafing around. You might have to give me those plays because the only real bad play I saw him make was the "horse collar" that wasn't even a horse collar.

About 11:00 left in the 4th. That whole drive. He basically walked into the full back every play.

 

[dcstands4]

We keep hyping up a lot of the players selected over the last 3-4 years, but how well have we really done?

Not going to comment on this year's draft. Still early.

2012:

Claiborne - We traded up to #6 for this guy? Can't stay healthy, can't play.
Crawford - Who knows?
The rest of the draft was terrible. Matt Johnson FTW

2011:

Smith - I really liked this pick, but the kid hasn't played up to his draft status. Not a lockdown LT. Just OK
Carter- Can't stay healthy and has regressed a ton this year. Looks like his work ethic is gone.
Murray - Can't stay healthy.
Harris - Good contributor.

2010:

Bryant - Can't put a complete game together. People saying he is # 2 behind Calvin are smoking something. He still has a lot of work.
Lee - Can't finish a season.
The rest of the draft was terrible.

2009: LOL

This is one huge reason why we suck. We have been hyping these guys up, but most of them are a dime a dozen in the NFL.

Outside of 2010 you name 2 players and dismiss the entire draft you know there are 7 rounds right?

 

[CyberB0b]

Outside of 2010 you name 2 players and dismiss the entire draft you know there are 7 rounds right?

You don't even realize it, but you just proved my point. I didn't list them because they aren't on the team anymore, probably out of the league.


2012:
Mo
Crawford
Wilber
Johnson
Coale
Hanna
McSurdy


2011:
Smith
Carter
Murray
Arkin
Thomas
Harris
Chapas
Nagy

2010:
Dez
Lee
AOA
Young
Wall
Lissemore

 

[dcstands4]

If we had drafted better, maybe we'd actually have some decent young prospects on the DL who could jump in when injuries occurred instead of having to resort to using journeyman scrubs. Could never figure out why people were saying Marinelli was doing such a great job and that street FA's like Hayden and Selvie were so good they made Ratliff and Spencer expendable when we had one of the worst run D's in the NFL even prior to this game. These guys were exposed for being the mediocre players they are. It's about more than sacks. Last time I checked, defending the run was a DL responsibility too. Coming into the game NO was only averaging 80 rushing yards/game, yet we allowed them 242. After this game we've given up the 5th most rushing yards/game to go along with the most passing yards. Worst D I've ever seen and probably the worst D in the history of the franchise and one of the absolute worst in the history of the league.

Bass, Crawford, hayden, Brent, Vega and Wilbur were the young guys we drafted in case of injures we just had too many to overcome

 

[CyberB0b]

Bass, Crawford, hayden, Brent, Vega and Wilbur were the young guys we drafted in case of injures we just had too many to overcome

Only 3 of those guys were drafted, and 1 of them was taken in the supplemental.

 

[dcstands4]

You don't even realize it, but you just proved my point. I didn't list them because they aren't on the team anymore, probably out of the league.


2012:
Mo
Crawford
Wilber
Johnson
Coale
Hanna
McSurdy


2011:
Smith
Carter
Murray
Arkin
Thomas
Harris
Chapas
Nagy

2010:
Dez
Lee
AOA
Young
Wall
Lissemore

no team hits on every pic you can get production out of half you're picks thats good. We're not there but close. Injured player's are our downfall

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Carter was over aggressive and missing tackles but he wasn't waffling. Maybe winded?

That's more along the lines of what I was seeing. A winded guy. The defense was out there for a long time.

 

[funkytown]

Well it sounds like you expect pro bowlers at backup spots as well. Backups in this league are goign to be average to below average players. What they contribute to you is whatever your positional coaches get out of those guys.

No of course I dont expect pro bowlers at backup spots. My point is that as a mid to late round draft pick, you should provide quality depth for your team. Not be hurt. Not get cut from the team. Not get on the field and play like crap. If you are backup and the starter gets hurts, you should step up and make some plays. You dont have to play at a probowl level, but some backups end up doing that. Ours dont. Except for our undrafted guys like Miles, Romo, Church, Leary, and a few others.