Owens game = Irvin game

[AbeBeta]

I have an interesting question that begs pondering. If Owen's wouldn't have trashed his QB's and coaches in SF and Philly how good could those teams and teamates have become. Could he have a superbowl ring as we speak. If he would have been in a Cowboy uniform and not Irvin way back when would we have even 1 ring of which to speak? Could he have catapulted Garcia and Mcnabb to Aikman like status by being a team player like Irvin, and conversely would he have relegated Aikman to being an above average afterthought because of the destuction he may have left in his wake with the 90's Boys.

Important thing to remember is that the 90's dynasty didn't occur by accident my friend, it took alot of "cohesive" parts to get us there. A big part was Michael Irvin and his fire and leadership. I have my serious doubts if those two receivers would have switched places that you would be remembering the 90's the same way.

Are you saying that Irvin made Aikman? Irvin was great but, for various reasons, he remains a borderline HoF candidate -- so by comparison with others, he wasn't as great as many of us give him credit for. He was a great leader. Of course, we didn't have nearly the access to players that exists now so he could have had his share of conflicts with teammates that we don't know about.

TO was totally wrong to feud with his Garcia and McNabb -- but if you look at the McNabb situation, it wasn't only TO that had a problem with him -- when TO challenged McNabb to fight not a single Eagle player stood up and told him to shut it. The only reason that TO is no longer an Eagle is that Reid sided with McNabb from day 1. Did TO destroy that team? Or was he the only guy who had the guts to call McNabb out? Again we don't know -- and if this were the mid 90's we likely wouldn't have heard about any of it.

 

[Screw The Hall]

Are you saying that Irvin made Aikman? Irvin was great but, for various reasons, he remains a borderline HoF candidate -- so by comparison with others, he wasn't as great as many of us give him credit for. He was a great leader. Of course, we didn't have nearly the access to players that exists now so he could have had his share of conflicts with teammates that we don't know about.

TO was totally wrong to feud with his Garcia and McNabb -- but if you look at the McNabb situation, it wasn't only TO that had a problem with him -- when TO challenged McNabb to fight not a single Eagle player stood up and told him to shut it. The only reason that TO is no longer an Eagle is that Reid sided with McNabb from day 1. Did TO destroy that team? Or was he the only guy who had the guts to call McNabb out? Again we don't know -- and if this were the mid 90's we likely wouldn't have heard about any of it.

Didn't want to leave you in limbo, I've got to leave and won't be around a computer until tonight, but I'll reply then. It takes me so long to type , part of the reason I haven't been a bigger part of this board. All good points you've made though.

 

[Doomsday101]

TO was wrong for trashing McNabb and Garcia....I agree. I don't agree with the selfish tag people are trying to put on him.

Why isn't Gregg Ellis the most hated Cowboy now? Everytime I turn around he's questioning his role with the team, and expecting to be traded.

Because Ellis is not going out trashing the team or teammates and he is doing this through his agent and Jerry Jones he is not out in his drive way or the facilities parking lot doing situps for the press and making a mockery out of the whole deal. Believe me if Ellis becomes a distraction for this team as we approach training camp I'll be calling for his head but for those coming down on Ellis for dealing with this during the off-season please use the same lack of tolerance for TO as your doing for Ellis.

 

[Doomsday101]

Are you saying that Irvin made Aikman? Irvin was great but, for various reasons, he remains a borderline HoF candidate -- so by comparison with others, he wasn't as great as many of us give him credit for. He was a great leader. Of course, we didn't have nearly the access to players that exists now so he could have had his share of conflicts with teammates that we don't know about.

TO was totally wrong to feud with his Garcia and McNabb -- but if you look at the McNabb situation, it wasn't only TO that had a problem with him -- when TO challenged McNabb to fight not a single Eagle player stood up and told him to shut it. The only reason that TO is no longer an Eagle is that Reid sided with McNabb from day 1. Did TO destroy that team? Or was he the only guy who had the guts to call McNabb out? Again we don't know -- and if this were the mid 90's we likely wouldn't have heard about any of it.

I think a great WR helps to make a great QB. Troy had confidence in Irvin no matter if it were single coverage or double coverage Troy knew Mike would go up and get it. I think Troy was no doubt a great player in his own right but having the WR like a Rice or an Irvin no doubt is a big boost for your QB and can make them even greater.

 

[Trip]

Important thing to remember is that the 90's dynasty didn't occur by accident my friend, it took alot of "cohesive" parts to get us there. A big part was Michael Irvin and his fire and leadership. I have my serious doubts if those two receivers would have switched places that you would be remembering the 90's the same way.

I agree with you. Irvin may not have had the physical talent of Owens, but he had plenty of physical talent, along with the ability to motivate and inspire that group he played with.

Not bashing TO, but he hasn't shown the ability to motivate or inspire anyone. Hopefully that changes this year.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree with you. Irvin may not have had the physical talent of Owens, but he had plenty of physical talent, along with the ability to motivate and inspire that group he played with.

Not bashing TO, but he hasn't shown the ability to motivate or inspire anyone. Hopefully that changes this year.

I agree. I hope Irvin gave that 1 bit of advice to TO. If you want the Dallas fans to embrace you be a team player go out and help and encourage those around you.

 

[lspain1]

As a WR TO>MI.

 

[RCowboyFan]

I agree. I hope Irvin gave that 1 bit of advice to TO. If you want the Dallas fans to embrace you be a team player go out and help and encourage those around you.

I think all the advice Irvin should give to Owens is, just score those TDs and shut your yap or do not be a distraction. No need to be team leader at all.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think all the advice Irvin should give to Owens is, just score those TDs and shut your yap or do not be a distraction. No need to be team leader at all.

When a player gets that much focus I'm not sure you can get away with just being a player. You will lead by example or being vocal in a positive manner but players with great talent will be looked too from the media and teammates.

 

[RCowboyFan]

When a player gets that much focus I'm not sure you can get away with just being a player. You will lead by example or being vocal in a positive manner but players with great talent will be looked too from the media and teammates.

True, but like Allen did, just do your thing and get along with your team mates, and we cowboys fans will start to like him. I mean guys like you, me and others who are not particularly found of Owen at all.

Like I said, Media will try to bait him, thats where he needs to do the right thing and just do his job.

 

[jrumann59]

TO is a YAC guy. Irvin was more of a big physical Marvin Harrison type.

Marvin Harrison is a smaller fast WR not a tall prototype WR

 

[Screw The Hall]

Are you saying that Irvin made Aikman? Irvin was great but, for various reasons, he remains a borderline HoF candidate -- so by comparison with others, he wasn't as great as many of us give him credit for. He was a great leader. Of course, we didn't have nearly the access to players that exists now so he could have had his share of conflicts with teammates that we don't know about.

TO was totally wrong to feud with his Garcia and McNabb -- but if you look at the McNabb situation, it wasn't only TO that had a problem with him -- when TO challenged McNabb to fight not a single Eagle player stood up and told him to shut it. The only reason that TO is no longer an Eagle is that Reid sided with McNabb from day 1. Did TO destroy that team? Or was he the only guy who had the guts to call McNabb out? Again we don't know -- and if this were the mid 90's we likely wouldn't have heard about any of it.

I think great players make each other great, Irvin and Aikman were a match made in heaven. My point is before Owens can even talk about being in Irvin's league he has to allow another great player to make him better and visa versa ... in my estimation this is the true meaning of greatness in the sports world. What do Jordan, Magic, and Bird have in common ... besides being the best basketball players of my generation they made everyone around them better. Some people say this player had a better supporting cast than this player, I say that said player plays a huge role in that supporting cast being great, it's not a coincidence.

As far as Irvin being a borderline HOF'er I say hogwash. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying they are. My screen name correctly conveys they way I feel about about the HOF and it's popularity contest mentality. Irvin was the second best WR of my era, period. Stats won't back that up, only rings will, which strangely enough is exactly what gets Aikman in as well. Irvin changed the way the game is played. Some say he wouldn't be able to push off now, I say everyone had the same rules to play by, they changed them because of 88, that's having an impact on the game. Same arguement can be made for Bullet Hayes by the way. In the end I believe he'll get in but it's a travesty he wasn't a 1st ballot man.

Gotta go fish'n ... fun discussion though, take care.

 

[2much2soon]

Irvin didn't have the weight room physique but, interestingly, he was probably stronger and certainly more physical against defenders than TO.
Who would I rather have in their prime? Irvin, hands down.

 

[Chief]

I think great players make each other great, Irvin and Aikman were a match made in heaven. My point is before Owens can even talk about being in Irvin's league he has to allow another great player to make him better and visa versa ... in my estimation this is the true meaning of greatness in the sports world. What do Jordan, Magic, and Bird have in common ... besides being the best basketball players of my generation they made everyone around them better. Some people say this player had a better supporting cast than this player, I say that said player plays a huge role in that supporting cast being great, it's not a coincidence.

As far as Irvin being a borderline HOF'er I say hogwash. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying they are. My screen name correctly conveys they way I feel about about the HOF and it's popularity contest mentality. Irvin was the second best WR of my era, period. Stats won't back that up, only rings will, which strangely enough is exactly what gets Aikman in as well. Irvin changed the way the game is played. Some say he wouldn't be able to push off now, I say everyone had the same rules to play by, they changed them because of 88, that's having an impact on the game. Same arguement can be made for Bullet Hayes by the way. In the end I believe he'll get in but it's a travesty he wasn't a 1st ballot man.

Gotta go fish'n ... fun discussion though, take care.

Very good post.

 

[Screw The Hall]

Very good post.

Why thank you sir. You've always been one of the posters I respect the most here going all the way back to the old board.

 

[cowboyuptx]

Comparing the butthole to Irvin= blasphemy. Rot in purgatory.

I'm with ya dude!

Owens does score more TD's. that's about the only thing he does better than Irvin, IMO.

Irvin caught alot deep balls, tons of catches over the middle, and throw in a few fade routes for TD's.

As far as talent, Owens and Irvin are about the same. Aside from that, Irvin was all about the team and all about the rings, Owens is all about himself........hopefully it still works.

 

[Zaxor]

Perhaps the greatest Cornerback of all times...Deion Sanders... when every team stopped throwing towards him...except Dallas... Mike hung a 100 on him time and time again...

Could Owens have done that I doubt it...

Eric Allen, Gill Byrd, Ronnie Lott in there prime could not stop Irvin..

Could Owens have done that I doubt it...

there was a time between 91 -95 no one stopped Irvin...

Has Owens ever done that nope...

Perhaps some of you should check what Owens has done against the skins since he has been in the NFC East...

***random thoughts***

my goodness why must you children always put down a great Cowboy to prop up the next best thing...

something you might not understand

Terrell played WCO which lends itself for RAC...receptions and eventually TD's...

so you people with a silly idea of fantasy football better forget it...its not gonna happen on a ball controlled Offense and that is what Irvin was in... we will get to see how Terrell does this year...

until then compare terrel to Rice who also ran a WCO or Sterling Sharpe or any other wco WR's...

imho Irvin was so much greater than terrell you would have to use lightyears as the measurement

 

[BLEU3ASY]

i think Owens scares defenses more than Irvin did.....Irvin has better hands

 

[WV Cowboy]

I am of the mind set that Irvin and Aikman were a match made in Heaven.

Irvin made Aikman a better QB by catching all of the tough balls, or poorly thrown balls, (even though they were few) and Aikman made Irvin a better WR by placing the ball where it was catchable even if he wasn't open or if he had not run a great route.

If TO had Aikman he would be better than he is now.

Nobody does it alone, Aikman was an awesome passer, and Irvin was an awesome receiver.

TO is awesome as well.

 

[royhitshard]

A freakin' NO!!!

TO is a self centered MO-RON with his own agenda.

Irvin was flashy and flamboyant, but he was the consumate team player.

Putting them in the same sentence is a disgrace.

When TO breaks his back for a game turning first down, and then gets up for more ... then I'll have respect for him.

Until then, he's not a real Cowboy.

Somebody needs to take a chill pill. Geesh...