Packers are asking that fans in the stands join arms in unity

[Sydla]

got it....so basically you're aware people hold the flag/anthem sacred but you don't understand or respect their reasons why. In short, you believe it's fabricated patriotism. So I then go back to what I originally wrote................sigh

I never made them out to be villains.

Just misguided souls, in many cases, who have shown far more passion and outrage over something that really has no effect on their lives but than compared to real issues that face them and our society in general.

 

[Doomsday101]

And those people are silly IMO.

They are silly because this garners more outrage for MANY of them than the stuff the nitwit in the WH pulls. So some players not standing for the anthem is disrespectful but it's OK if the President rants about McCain being a bad soldier for being a POW, or insulting a family whose son died a hero simply because they were Muslim and didn't like him, or the fact that leading up to his nomination, he trashed the military leadership.

Nah, that's not going to get your dander up. But some guys kneeling for the anthem, yeah, that's something we need to really get outraged over.

If this many people showed this type of outrage over what our politicians do, we might be better off as a country. But instead, we don't. Instead we get outraged over silly, petty BS that really has not one effect on our every day lives.

It's beyond idiotic.

They may be silly in your view but a vast majority around the NFL stadiums seem to feel different and we too are entitled to our views, Freedom of speech is not a 1 sided. This in my view has nothing to do with Trump, people were pissed when Kap did it and to this day no NFL team has brought him in.

 

[Sydla]

Prove institutional racism exists in law enforcement today.

Sorry, I'm not just going to take your word for it.



YR

A quick google search will provide much of what you want. Here is a small sampling.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/06/28...-shows-racial-profiling-police-traffic-stops/

In 2013, a federal court truck down a NYC law on "stop and risk" because data showed that of the 4.4 million stops were made under that policy over an 8 year period. 88% of those stops resulted in no further action. However 83% of the stops involved black and Hispanic citizens despite the fact that whites make up the largest population segment in the city.

There is more than enough data out there that would suggest there very well could be a racial profiling issue facing various police departments around the country. Now, I don't believe it's as widespread as some would want you to believe, where it invades every police force in this country, but I think it's apparent enough that it's an issue we need to address as a country.

 

[Kevinicus]

LOL. Facts?

They didn't insult him. The father gave a speech at the DNC criticizing Trump for how he spoke about Muslims in general. He never said anything insulting about Trump other than criticized him for smearing Muslims and the implication that Muslims haven't sacrificed for this country and wondered if Trump ever read the Constitution (which despite his claims, I believe there is a strong chance Trump actually has never read the full Constitution). Then Trump goes on TV and insinuates the mother can't speak for herself because you know, Muslims treat women poorly.

Dude,

He just went off and spouted stupid talking points attacking Trump for things he didn't do/say. I call that insults. I have no problem with someone responding to that. It's disgusting that their son's death is used as a shield for criticism.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

I never made them out to be villains.

Just misguided souls, in many cases, who have shown far more passion and outrage over something that really has no effect on their lives but than compared to real issues that face them and our society in general.

that really doesn't add up. In light of when the outrage began for these misguided soles, with their "new-found" patriotism, they must be showing this passion for a reason. Why is that?

 

[theebs]

that fans in the stands join arms in unity. Ain't that funny. How bout everyone hold their hand over their heart while the Anthem is played. That would be unity.

I thought this guy quit the nfl last week and was done watching and spending his hard earned money on the nfl?

 

[Cmac]

You don't get people to listen by doing things that divide people. People are there to see a game not players disrespecting what they hold dear. They have days off during the week where they can stage a protest and standup and talk about the issue but doing something that is going to make people angry is just really a stupid stunt is not the way to go about it.

In that case....next time we see another Charlottesville bad day or similar....I hope someone breaks out with the National Anthem instead of divisive words, venom, sticks, disagreement, unwillingness to talk it out in calm voices, be disruptive or attack someone simply because they are there and with differing opinion........I guess we'll be ok, at least for 4 - 6 minutes while we stand at attention.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I don't know. I do know that the white nationalists marched peacefully the night before the day of the riots. And I was against that because despite peacefully protesting, they were also protesting against the country. I know that was okay when I felt that way, but when players protest against the country...it's supposedly not cool for me to do so. And that Trump's words are divisive and the White Nationalists peaceful protest that night is divisive...but not the players protesting the anthem and the flag.

I do know many people that are against the players protest and against Trump and the confederate flag. I should know since I'm one of them who marched in protest against the confederate flag symbol being on the state of South Carolina's flag...back in 1996, at the SC state capital.




And this has nothing to do with the protest at hand. It's about the allegation that this country, particular law enforcement, stands for racism and oppressing blacks.



And many people don't do any of that and are against the anthem and flag protests.




How many saw the scientific evidence and ignored it and continue to ignore it? And they still describe it as a 'senseless killing?'



So you want somebody to take down their own confederate flag at their own house?

That's the difference...the players are bringing their politics and protesting of the country to the public (and at work). I care about as much about a redneck having his own confederate flag at his own house as I would about a brain-dead football player claiming institutional racism at his own home.



Who said that?

That was widely considered reprehensible by just about every single person.

OTOH, a chapter president of BLM stated that white people should give their houses to black families for free, put black people in their will, etc.

That one moronic racist who somehow condoned running over a protester over with a car isn't an established person of power like the chapter president of BLM who says equally asinine things.




And memes have been made to encourage killing white people as well. Not to mention fun lil' games like the 'knockout game' that target whites.



Good for you.




YR

Because many in the country does stand for oppression against black people. Including those law enforcement. Is every officer in Law enforcement racist, No. But, there are indeed SOME in law enforcement who hold racist views. And there always will be as long as racism exist. Unless you want to honestly believe that racism isn't around anymore. Then there will be racist getting into every career in America, including Law enforcement. To deny this is a denial of racism in a way.

If you can have one fire fighter saying that one dog is worth more than the lives of a million black people and another calling Mike Tomlin a racial slur over the Steelers staying in the locker room. Then you can have men on the police force who have racist views, even if they all don't openly admit to it. And their racism shows in cases like I pointed out with the fire fighters who may not have always openly shown their racism to people out in public. And a case where a officer had a **** tattoo on his arm and is defended by the leader of the police union calling BLM "A pack of rabid animals."


Confederate flags/statues are up in public places, waved at public events. put above the American flag in some places like Nascar. And some schools are named after Confederate leaders. It's not just about people waving their Confederate flags in private, but the fact that in public places and in front of public buildings the Confederates are honored/glorified. To me would be like Germany having a bunch of statues of Hitler and other **** leaders up. While naming schools. roads, etc....after Hitler and **** leaders. Like it is done here in America with Confederate leaders.

 

[Cmac]

The root of the problem is that the anthem protesters protested the wrong thing and made their protest built on a lie.

This protest started to gain momentum after Mike Brown, a man who strong armed a store owner and attacked a cop, was justly killed by a cop trying to protect himself and the community.

Then it was further perpetuated by the lying of the anthem protesters who have the acid-trip logic of stating that they are not actually protesting the anthem and the flag. As well as people like Mike Tomlin who pressured players into either protesting the anthem or not properly addressing the anthem.

We used to have unity and players that protested or spoke their mind about issues that bothered them. We used to stand for the anthem to show that even though we disagree at times, even though there are a lot of things that are wrong with this country that need to be resolved, that we are unified by what the country stands for which is all men are created equal and that as a country we've always worked to right the ship towards inequality. And afterwards if a player had an issue to raise, we could hear them thru the press or social media and the people would hear them and support their cause.

But the players and the NFL want it all one way. And to complain towards anybody who is protesting the NFL in response to their protests against the anthem and the flag is wildly hypocritical.



YR

Respect your opinion.....however racial inequality or Bad cop work (only bad cops) held without accountability has been going on before the Mike Brown incident you identify.....and continues. The beauty of the ugliness is that cell phone cameras place it for all to see.

This is not a new request to simply have fairness.....been sought for years. Video is showing incidents are happening for all to see, yet the response is "You didn't see what your eyes saw". Mike Brown incident didn't start this.

 

[Doomsday]

A quick google search will provide much of what you want. Here is a small sampling.

http://news.stanford.edu/2016/06/28...-shows-racial-profiling-police-traffic-stops/

In 2013, a federal court truck down a NYC law on "stop and risk" because data showed that of the 4.4 million stops were made under that policy over an 8 year period. 88% of those stops resulted in no further action. However 83% of the stops involved black and Hispanic citizens despite the fact that whites make up the largest population segment in the city.

There is more than enough data out there that would suggest there very well could be a racial profiling issue facing various police departments around the country. Now, I don't believe it's as widespread as some would want you to believe, where it invades every police force in this country, but I think it's apparent enough that it's an issue we need to address as a country.

That is misleading though, NY is a very big city. They would have to break those stats down by neighborhood and the make up plus crime rates of those neighborhoods. If 80% of those stop and frisks came in high crime neighborhoods where the make up those neighborhoods is 90% black and Hispanic, that is not racial profiling. People living in higher crime areas are going to be stopped more often.

That said, I never understood how "stop and frisk" was Constitutional to begin with.

 

[Doomsday101]

In that case....next time we see another Charlottesville bad day or similar....I hope someone breaks out with the National Anthem instead of divisive words, venom, sticks, disagreement, unwillingness to talk it out in calm voices, be disruptive or attack someone simply because they are there and with differing opinion........I guess we'll be ok, at least for 4 - 6 minutes while we stand at attention.

I fault all who got violent both sides. I can't stand the KKK or other white supremacist groups they are walking trash, on the other hand those on the other side who attacked were just as wrong. I don't have to agree with a group but I do not have the right to physically attack them. Had people let those moron just march down the street and paid them no attention this would not even be an issue. That did not happen and fault can be found on both sides. This notion that people can attack others because they are offended is BS. Fans have not physically attacked players however those who choose to spend their money else where instead of buying tickets or merchandise that is their freedom to do that.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Prove institutional racism exists in law enforcement today.

Sorry, I'm not just going to take your word for it.





YR

Black and Latino drivers are searched based on less evidence, are more likely to be arrested

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-stanford-minority-drive-disparties-20170619-story.html


Black drivers more likely to be pulled over

http://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/missouri-report-black-drivers-pulled-47826335


Black People More Likely to Be Stopped by Cops

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...re-likely-be-stopped-cops-study-finds-n616546


Marijuana use is roughly equal among Blacks and whites, yet Blacks are 3.73 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession

https://www.aclu.org/issues/mass-incarceration/smart-justice/war-marijuana-black-and-white


Killings of Blacks by Whites Are Far More Likely to Be Ruled ‘Justifiable’

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/...-far-more-likely-to-be-ruled-justifiable.html


Young black people nine times more likely to be jailed than young white people

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/01/young-black-people-jailed-moj-report-david-lammy


Black Americans shot dead by police are twice as likely to be unarmed as white counterparts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...hite-people-us-african-american-a7567471.html


Police respect whites more than blacks during traffic stops, language analysis finds

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown...blacks-traffic-stops-language-analysis-finds/


Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/20/health/black-men-killed-by-police/index.html


Young black men again faced highest rate of US police killings in 2016

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men


Study: Vermont Police Stop, Search Black Drivers More Than Whites

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMess...ce-stop-search-black-drivers-more-than-whites


Halifax police far more likely to stop black people, data shows

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/halifa...ely-to-stop-black-people-data-shows-1.3234363


Black motorists in Md. are pulled over, searched at higher rates

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-police-traffic-stops-20161116-story.html


Black and Hispanic people more likely to be victims of police brutality, study says

https://news.vice.com/article/black...-to-be-victims-of-police-brutality-study-says


Stop & Frisk Demographics

https://www.nyclu.org/en/stop-and-frisk-data


You can save the incoming dismissive comment from the alt-right playbook. Just wanted to show everyone that facts you keep on insisting do not exist do indeed exist. Stop-and-frisk data alone proves institutional racism.

 

[Doomsday]

Showing articles that skew numbers to highlight certain facts or points of view is easy to do.

For every one of those you can find a counter point that says the exact opposite.

Case in point. I can just as easily show stats that white cops are less likely to shoot black people because they are scared of being destroyed by the media
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/...se-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?mcubz=3
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

Case #2 speeding in New Jersey
https://www.city-journal.org/html/racial-profiling-myth-debunked-12244.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/mar/22/20020322-041229-2114r/

 

[Cmac]

I fault all who got violent both sides. I can't stand the KKK or other white supremacist groups they are walking trash, on the other hand those on the other side who attacked were just as wrong. I don't have to agree with a group but I do not have the right to physically attack them. Had people let those moron just march down the street and paid them no attention this would not even be an issue. That did not happen and fault can be found on both sides. This notion that people can attack others because they are offended is BS. Fans have not physically attacked players however those who choose to spend their money else where instead of buying tickets or merchandise that is their freedom to do that.

Can we call the group you mention....domestic terrorist?

 

[Denim Chicken]

Showing articles that skew numbers to highlight certain facts or points of view is easy to do.

For every one of those you can find a counter point that says the exact opposite.

Case in point. I can just as easily show stats that white cops are less likely to shoot black people because they are scared of being destroyed by the media
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/...se-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html?mcubz=3
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/

Case #2 speeding in New Jersey
https://www.city-journal.org/html/racial-profiling-myth-debunked-12244.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2002/mar/22/20020322-041229-2114r/

Skew the Stop & Frisk numbers. I'll wait.

 

[Doomsday]

Skew the Stop & Frisk numbers. I'll wait.

Unless you break it down in smaller chunks by crime rate and demographics, not by an entire city, especially one as large as NY, the stats are meaningless.

 

[Doomsday101]

Can we call the group you mention....domestic terrorist?

yes we can, anytime a group like that or even BLM or Antifa as well commit acts of violence I think calling them domestic terrorist is fair. As I said I do not condone violence for any group, BLM or Antifa, KKK, skinheads or any other fanatical groups.

 

[Denim Chicken]

Unless you break it down in smaller chunks by crime rate and demographics, not by an entire city, especially one as large as NY, the stats are meaningless.

OK


Geographically, Brooklyn and the Bronx received the most stop-and-frisks in New York City.


According to a 2013 Census Bureau estimate, 45.8% of the Bronx's population was white, 43.3% was black or African American, 4.2% Asian, 3.0% American Indian, 0.4% Pacific Islander, and 3.3% of two or more races. In addition, 54.6% of the population was of Hispanic or Latino origin, of any race.

According to the 2010 Census, 35.7% of the population was non-Hispanic White, 31.9% non-Hispanic Black or African American, 10.4% non-Hispanic Asian, 0.4% from some other race (non-Hispanic) and 1.6% of two or more races (non-Hispanic).

 

[Yakuza Rich]

To those who asked what my issues are with those who have issues with this, here is a good example of the ridiculous and over the top reactions by some.

Treasonous? LOL.

And there's plenty of ridiculous claims and over the top reactions from the other side.

I've been told on this very forum that:

1. Cops shouldn't have 'special rights.'

2. Your life should not be in danger when you resist arrest.

3. Mike Brown was murdered by Darren Wilson.

4. A Baltimore cop must have been practicing racial profiling when he was told by superiors to leave his patrol where wealthy people lived with a super low crime rate and to start to go patrol urban areas with high crime rates in Baltimore.

5. Nobody is protesting the anthem.

6. Why would a veteran or soldier be offended by this protest of the anthem?

7. You can't get rid of bad cops in this country because they are protected by their friends and a DA...and specifically cite bad cops...that were fired and prosecuted.

8. Why do people focus on Fidel Castro murdering all of those people? Listen to all the good things Castro did.





YR

 

[Doomsday]

OK


Geographically, Brooklyn and the Bronx received the most stop-and-frisks in New York City.


According to a 2013 Census Bureau estimate, 45.8% of the Bronx's population was white, 43.3% was black or African American, 4.2% Asian, 3.0% American Indian, 0.4% Pacific Islander, and 3.3% of two or more races. In addition, 54.6% of the population was of Hispanic or Latino origin, of any race.

According to the 2010 Census, 35.7% of the population was non-Hispanic White, 31.9% non-Hispanic Black or African American, 10.4% non-Hispanic Asian, 0.4% from some other race (non-Hispanic) and 1.6% of two or more races (non-Hispanic).

Demographics doesn't mean anything without the crime rates as well.

https://www.amren.com/archives/reports/the-color-of-crime-2016-revised-edition/