Packers propose banning Tush Push

[FanofJerry]

Philly does a really good job with the shoving aspect, too. When other teams like ours run it, it just looks like a quarterback sneak. When Philly does it, both of the players in the backfield actually shove their QB forward. It's the shoving aspect that is the concern.

I have little doubt without the shoving that Hurts would still have a high success rate because of his lower-body strength.

I agree with this.

I didn't get into it...as it creates me looking like a conspiracy theorist...

But from the few plays ive watched...other teams aren't running this play like Philly. And, I dont buy the 'it's Hurts leg strength' fully. Though, that is very important.

It's a situation like Dallas QBs failing in playoffs. It doesn't make sense.

I watched a few videos on YouTube and no team runs it like Philly when Philly is trying hard.

It's hard to explain.

I don't fault Philly for being good at shoving...but other teams should be just as good, as it doesn't seem like rocket science to perfect, but they aren't. And, again, I don't fully buy into Hurts leg strength. I think perfecting shoving is the key...and find it easily replicateable, but for some reason only Philly is good at it right now.

Which leads to my main argument...once teams perfect it...the game is changed

 

[FanofJerry]

So...there are rules in place already that most agree with...

I don't see an issue with adding another if it saves the game...assuming the tush push gets out of hand.

Why is there a rule against two guys going in motion at the same time? Or am i mistaken on the rule?

Why can't there be two guys going in motion and why aren't fans claiming this is not right?

I might be missing something or incorrect...but....rules are there...if something seems unfair, make a rule.

 

[KingCorcoran]

So...there are rules in place already that most agree with...

I don't see an issue with adding another if it saves the game...assuming the tush push gets out of hand.

Why is there a rule against two guys going in motion at the same time? Or am i mistaken on the rule?

Why can't there be two guys going in motion and why aren't fans claiming this is not right?

I might be missing something or incorrect...but....rules are there...if something seems unfair, make a rule.

In this case there was a rule that would make the “tush push” an illegal play and they changed the rule, 20 years ago. The owners are not suggesting the ball carrier cannot be pushed. The issue is with a play, they admit is legal under current rules, one team utilizes and the circumstances in which they use it.

There have been no injuries on the play. Philadelphia is scheduled for at or near the limit of premier games each of the last three seasons, so citing it hurts entertainment value is a hollow claim, as well. This is sour grapes, nothing more.

 

[FanofJerry]

In this case there was a rule that would make the “tush push” an illegal play and they changed the rule, 20 years ago. The owners are not suggesting the ball carrier cannot be pushed. The issue is with a play, they admit is legal under current rules, one team utilizes and the circumstances in which they use it.

There have been no injuries on the play. Philadelphia is scheduled for at or near the limit of premier games each of the last three seasons, so citing it hurts entertainment value is a hollow claim, as well. This is sour grapes, nothing more.

You're still side stepping a lot of info/scenarios I have already provided

No one is addressing things, they are passing the buck to something else. In your case, the owners agreed on it. Who cares what they did if it could potentially ruin the sport.

Your reply will be...'why would owners approve something that hurts their profits'

I already addressed that.

it all must be fake if anyone is defending what owners vote on. They are all in collusion

You're side stepping

 

[gimmesix]

I agree with this.

I didn't get into it...as it creates me looking like a conspiracy theorist...

But from the few plays ive watched...other teams aren't running this play like Philly. And, I dont buy the 'it's Hurts leg strength' fully. Though, that is very important.

It's a situation like Dallas QBs failing in playoffs. It doesn't make sense.

I watched a few videos on YouTube and no team runs it like Philly when Philly is trying hard.

It's hard to explain.

I don't fault Philly for being good at shoving...but other teams should be just as good, as it doesn't seem like rocket science to perfect, but they aren't. And, again, I don't fully buy into Hurts leg strength. I think perfecting shoving is the key...and find it easily replicateable, but for some reason only Philly is good at it right now.

Which leads to my main argument...once teams perfect it...the game is changed

I really think a lot of teams don't want to actually try to push their QB through a pile. That's why they don't run it like Philly. That may be a product of Hurts' leg strength ... they feel he's tough enough to take it. Some QBs might snap if you tried to push them through 300-plus-pound linemen.

 

[gimmesix]

In this case there was a rule that would make the “tush push” an illegal play and they changed the rule, 20 years ago. The owners are not suggesting the ball carrier cannot be pushed. The issue is with a play, they admit is legal under current rules, one team utilizes and the circumstances in which they use it.

There have been no injuries on the play. Philadelphia is scheduled for at or near the limit of premier games each of the last three seasons, so citing it hurts entertainment value is a hollow claim, as well. This is sour grapes, nothing more.

There have been a lot of rules passed over the years that some team's fan saw as sour grapes. We've had multiple penalties named after our players.

 

[gimmesix]

Maybe we should hire Kelce as a consultant and have him teach us how to do it. Everyone has a price.

I don't think it's a question of knowing how. Every team can watch Philly and duplicate what the Eagles do. I think it is a) spending the practice time necessary to perfect the play and b) feeling comfortable having players shove your quarterback into and through a pile.

 

[gimmesix]

The rule change allowing the ball carrier to be pushed happened in 2006. The NFL has never felt compelled to allow the defense to do the same. The rule change proposal does not disallow the ball carrier to be pushed, except in the manner the Eagles do it. The “scrum” which happens frequently and will happen more frequently going forward is something the owners want to be part of the game.

There has been zero conversation about rule changes giving advantages to the defense.

I think all direct pushing by the offense should be disallowed, not just the way the Eagles do it. They would need to establish a way of judging it that makes it easy to determine for officials. For example, if a ball carrier if fighting for yardage and a lineman comes up and blocks someone trying to tackle him, that should be legal. But if he runs up and pushes the ball carrier forward, that should be flagged. Linemen should be able to block until the whistle is blown.

I don't really agree with just singling out the Eagles' play. To me, the danger is 300-pound men playing rugby with the QB, RB, WR as the ball.

 

[FanofJerry]

I think all direct pushing by the offense should be disallowed, not just the way the Eagles do it. They would need to establish a way of judging it that makes it easy to determine for officials. For example, if a ball carrier if fighting for yardage and a lineman comes up and blocks someone trying to tackle him, that should be legal. But if he runs up and pushes the ball carrier forward, that should be flagged. Linemen should be able to block until the whistle is blown.

I don't really agree with just singling out the Eagles' play. To me, the danger is 300-pound men playing rugby with the QB, RB, WR as the ball.

The controversy is...it's allowed down field, why not during tush push.

It's a fair argument but has a difference.

The downfield scenario involves a play, while it still might be crucial to a first down, that doesn't involve the defense using most of its manpower to prevent.


The tush push involves a defense to choose between a first down or a potential chuck play.

At some point this thing will get perfected to the point the League has to protect the game.

 

[gimmesix]

The controversy is...it's allowed down field, why not during tush push.

It's a fair argument but has a difference.

The downfield scenario involves a play, while it still might be crucial to a first down, that doesn't involve the defense using most of its manpower to prevent.


The tush push involves a defense to choose between a first down or a potential chuck play.

At some point this thing will get perfected to the point the League has to protect the game.

I don't know, when you've got a RB trying to churn for extra yardage with two or three defenders trying to get him down and a 300-plus-pound offensive lineman charges into the pileup and knocks the back forward, that seems more dangerous to me than the tush push, which is more controlled.

I just don't see the need to give anyone the advantage of being shoved forward. If the back or QB can get the yardage on his own, that's great. If not, this isn't rugby.

 

[FanofJerry]

I don't know, when you've got a RB trying to churn for extra yardage with two or three defenders trying to get him down and a 300-plus-pound offensive lineman charges into the pileup and knocks the back forward, that seems more dangerous to me than the tush push, which is more controlled.

I just don't see the need to give anyone the advantage of being shoved forward. If the back or QB can get the yardage on his own, that's great. If not, this isn't rugby.

I completely agree.

I don't think that play changes the game significantly like the tush push could.

But, to be fair, its the same thing.

I agree it seems more dangerous. Marc Columbo(sp) full speed hitting a stalemate seems more dangerous.

I'm not focusing on the danger part, though there is an element. And, I have been very pro 'get horse tackle out of the game'...im focusing on if it stresses defenses out too much. Which, I forsee happening

 

[FanofJerry]

Spotswood said it more elegantly than I could...

The defense can't commit fully to stopping the play...especially with the fake.

I'm not trying to stymy creativeness, I'm trying to protect parity(if that's the right word)...for the viewer

 

[Spottswoode]

I don't think it's a question of knowing how. Every team can watch Philly and duplicate what the Eagles do. I think it is a) spending the practice time necessary to perfect the play and b) feeling comfortable having players shove your quarterback into and through a pile.

I was just joking with the Kelce comment.

He has shared on numerous occasions why they are successful and how when executed properly, it is virtually impossible to stop. He also talks about how much it sucks to be the center on the play.

 

[gimmesix]

I was just joking with the Kelce comment.

He has shared on numerous occasions why they are successful and how when executed properly, it is virtually impossible to stop. He also talks about how much it sucks to be the center on the play.

I didn't take that comment seriously ... even though I guess I provided a serious response.

 

[Jarntt]

The rule should be that when behind the line of scrimmage you cannot push the ball carrier forward.

I don't think it should be allowed downfield either. I don't like when the OL come running up to the pile and push it forward when a RB is slowed but not quite stopped enough for forward progress to be deemed stopped.