Pacman suspended for 2007; Henry suspended 8 games

[bbgun]

This thread is rife with poseurs. My elder brother is a highly successful tax attorney, but he admittedly knows jack about con law, torts, libel, etc. Why? Because he specializes. After taking the bar, he left all that other crap behind and concentrated on what he excelled at. So unless some of you are verifiable employment or arbitration specialists, I don't see why you should be accorded any kind of deference. If I had to bet on any of you, it would be the newly-minted barrister Peplaw, because some of these issues might be fresh on his mind.

 

[theogt]

This thread is rife with poseurs. My elder brother is a highly successful tax attorney, but he admittedly knows jack about con law, torts, libel, etc. Why? Because he specializes. After taking the bar, he left all that other crap behind and concentrated on what he excelled at. So unless some of you are verifiable employment or arbitration specialists, I don't see why you should be accorded any kind of deference. If I had to bet on any of you, it would be the newly-minted barrister Peplaw, because some of these issues might be fresh on his mind.

All you have to do to learn about Due Process is be a first year law student. Heck most first year law students know more about Con Law than most practicing attorneys.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

NFL Adopts New Conduct Policy
By National Football League
April 10, 2007
In light of the NFL's suspensions of Tennessee Titans cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones and Cincinnati Bengals wideout Chris Henry, who were both informed of the decision today by commissioner Roger Goodell, a new personal conduct policy was born. Jones' suspension will be for the entire 2007 season, while Henry will be tagged for eight games. For more information about the suspensions, click here.

The NFL announced today changes to its long-standing personal conduct policy and programs for players, coaches, and other team and league employees.

The modifications focus on expanded educational and support programs in addition to increased levels of discipline for violations of the policy, Commissioner Roger Goodell said.

"It is important that the NFL be represented consistently by outstanding people as well as great football players, coaches, and staff," Commissioner Goodell said. "We hold ourselves to higher standards of responsible conduct because of what it means to be part of the National Football League. We have long had policies and programs designed to encourage responsible behavior, and this policy is a further step in ensuring that everyone who is part of the NFL meets that standard. We will continue to review the policy and modify it as warranted."

Added NFL Players Association Executive Director Gene Upshaw: "The NFL Players Association and the Player Advisory Council have been discussing this issue for several months. We believe that these are steps that the commissioner needs to take and we support the policy. It is important that players in violation of the policy will have the opportunity and the support to change their conduct and earn their way back."

Education


The annual rookie symposium of all drafted players will be expanded to include mandatory year-round rookie orientation by all clubs that will reinforce the information presented at the June symposium.

An expanded annual life-skills program for all players and clubs will be mandatory.

There will be mandatory briefings each year for all players and clubs given by local law enforcement representatives. These briefings will cover laws pertaining to possession of guns, drinking and driving, domestic disputes and other matters, including gang-related activities in the community that could be of significance to players, coaches, and other club-related personnel.

Every club will be required to implement a program for employees to enhance compliance with laws relating to drinking and driving.

Counseling and treatment programs for all club and league employees that violate the policy will be expanded.

Discipline


The standard of socially responsible conduct for NFL employees will be higher. Club and league employees will be held to a higher standard than players. Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL will be subject to discipline, even if not criminal in nature.

Discipline for individuals that violate the policy will include larger fines and longer suspensions.

Repeat violations of the personal conduct policy will be dealt with aggressively, including discipline for repeat offenders even when the conduct itself has not yet resulted in a conviction of a crime.

Individuals suspended under the policy must earn their way back to active status by fully complying with professional counseling and treatment that will include evaluation on a regular basis.

Clubs will be subject to discipline in cases involving violations of the Personal Conduct Policy by club employees. In determining potential club discipline going forward, the commissioner will consider all relevant factors, including the history of conduct-related violations by that club's employees and the extent to which the club's support programs are consistent with best practices as identified and shared with the clubs. Recommended best practices include having a full-time club player development director and a full-time club security director.

LINK

It appears they are definitely trying to backdoor this in. I wonder if theyll be able to get away with it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After looking over the old conduct policy and looking at the changes to the new one I think the league is trying to grandfather this or some other shady maneuvering.

Due process in this is essentially moot. Under the old system they had to await due process and in the new they dont. Taht is pretty clear.

Really what the NFL is doing is applying these new rules from today to an arrest that happened last month. Now unless there are specific provisons within the new CP Im not so sure they can get away with that.

The other thing they can do is it is apparent that the NFLPA gave the commish the right to arbitrarily decide that a players actions are worthy of a suspension. It basically allows Goodell to put the hammer down whenever he feels like it for no rhyme or reason.

The reps for the players suck is all I have to say. Sure this issue needs to be addressed but you dont have to relinquish all control.

 

[burmafrd]

As usual most of you miss the point: When you have a HABITUAL thug like Pacman- and no honest person can say otherwise- then his previous history is all you need. This is not a stupid court of law where on a technicality you can say the previous 5 armed robberies cannot be admitted into evidence showing that this guy is a total thug. Its much more clear and HONEST. Henry and Pacman are PROVEN thugs by their past behavior. Now they are paying the price as they should.

 

[burmafrd]

Shakespear's Henry VI Act 4, Scene 2:
"First, KILL all the LAWYERS!"
greatest line ol willy ever wrote.

 

[superpunk]

I'd like to thank everyone involved for another epic thread to nowhere.

Also, I'd like to tentatively welcome peplaw to our ******** little club. If you're not there yet, you will be soon. I couldn't have selected (I used "selected" here, because I couldn't come up with the proper use of "choose" in this situation - how pathetic is that?) a better new member had I tried.

 

[Doomsday101]

I hope the other sports leagues look at the NFL, it is time to clean up their act. Enough is enough these league are not obligated to cater to thugs regardless of your talent. Like any other company reputation does matter. I'm proud of the job the new commissioner is doing and as just as proud of the many players who agree that enough is enough

 

[sacase]

After reading this thread I must say it was interesting. Theo...I am sorry I would never hire you to defend me. I hope you stick to being a prosecuter. I got a feeling that if you represented a man in a divorce then he would be lucky to have his clothes on his back. You are supposed to represent the client, not look out for the best interest of the league.

To me this is obvious. The NFL has changed policy. Pacman's conduct happend prior to the policy change. The are attempting to punish him under a new policy, that is a no go. You should argue that under precident set under the OLD policy your client has been unfairly punished. The reason Tags waited on punishing players is also obvious. You can be arrested for almost any little thing. Here is a prime example, think back when Irvin and Williams got arrested for raping that woman. At the time it looked legit. Under the new policy the NFL can suspend you. So if they suspended Irvin and Williams for a year and then it goes to trial and it is found out that the woman made up the story guess what happens. The NFL gets a HUGE lawsuit by the players because they suspended them for something that was basically a false claim. Now, from the Cowboys perspective you just lost Irvin and Williams for a year when they didn't even do anything. Do you think you might want to persue leagal action against the league since you lost 2 important players and you might have had ticket and merchandise sales suffer? I really think the NFL best interest would be served to let DUE PROCESS run its course before deciding on suspending these players. Godell is just trying to make his mark. I saw this all the time in the military. You never wanted to be the first person to get in trouble with the new commander, he was intentionally hard to try and show he wasn't a push over.

 

[Doomsday101]

After reading this thread I must say it was interesting. Theo...I am sorry I would never hire you to defend me. I hope you stick to being a prosecuter. I got a feeling that if you represented a man in a divorce then he would be lucky to have his clothes on his back. You are supposed to represent the client, not look out for the best interest of the league.

To me this is obvious. The NFL has changed policy. Pacman's conduct happend prior to the policy change. The are attempting to punish him under a new policy, that is a no go. You should argue that under precident set under the OLD policy your client has been unfairly punished. The reason Tags waited on punishing players is also obvious. You can be arrested for almost any little thing. Here is a prime example, think back when Irvin and Williams got arrested for raping that woman. At the time it looked legit. Under the new policy the NFL can suspend you. So if they suspended Irvin and Williams for a year and then it goes to trial and it is found out that the woman made up the story guess what happens. The NFL gets a HUGE lawsuit by the players because they suspended them for something that was basically a false claim. Now, from the Cowboys perspective you just lost Irvin and Williams for a year when they didn't even do anything. Do you think you might want to persue leagal action against the league since you lost 2 important players and you might have had ticket and merchandise sales suffer? I really think the NFL best interest would be served to let DUE PROCESS run its course before deciding on suspending these players. Godell is just trying to make his mark. I saw this all the time in the military. You never wanted to be the first person to get in trouble with the new commander, he was intentionally hard to try and show he wasn't a push over.

The league also has a review board made up of current players, they are not just throwing out punishment without reviewing the situation.

 

[sacase]

The league also has a review board made up of current players, they are not just throwing out punishment without reviewing the situation.

They can have as many review boards as they like it doesn't change the fact that Jones should be punished under the old rules. Nor does it change the fact that the NFL is setting themselves up for possible legal action especially since players have been found Not Guilty.

 

[sacase]

I also find it funny that the NFL holds the employees to a higher standard that the players. I mean if Joe Janitor gets a charged with a DUI is he going to get a 2 year suspension despite the fact that no one knows who is is? The Superstar player gets charged with a DUI and only gets 4 games?

I am sorry I just see so many ways the NFL can get sued with this policy its not even funny. Look at the Sean Taylor DUI case. He gets charged with a DUI, gets arrested and the league suspends him for 8 games. 2 months later the Judge throws the case out. Fair?

 

[Doomsday101]

They can have as many review boards as they like it doesn't change the fact that Jones should be punished under the old rules. Nor does it change the fact that the NFL is setting themselves up for possible legal action especially since players have been found Not Guilty.

In your opinion. Mine I'm sick of it and think it is about time that the NFL stand up and do something about this type of behavior. It is not a god given right to play in the NFL despite what you may think and the league has every right to do what they are currently doing to clean up this mess. You want to cry over Pacman be my guest but pro sports has earned a reputation as a haven for thugs and that has to change. Thankfully many players feel the same way and have expressed support for something that was long over due.

 

[sacase]

Personally I don't care for people like Jones, however I also belive that you need to treat everyone equally. I don't belive in changing the rules and punishing someone. I also look at the reality of the situation and the fact that you were suspended without pay for something that you were not convicted of seems just wrong to me.

 

[Doomsday101]

Personally I don't care for people like Jones, however I also belive that you need to treat everyone equally. I don't belive in changing the rules and punishing someone. I also look at the reality of the situation and the fact that you were suspended without pay for something that you were not convicted of seems just wrong to me.

NFL has every right to set rules of conduct for it's players. I'm also sure NFL lawyers and reviewed what they can and can't do and now with the backing of the NFL players Union I don't think your going to find many who feel Pacman is being treated unfairly by the league. Being convicted or not does not change the fact that the league as set rules of conduct for it's members

 

[sacase]

NFL has every right to set rules of conduct for it's players. I'm also sure NFL lawyers and reviewed what they can and can't do and now with the backing of the NFL players Union I don't think your going to find many who feel Pacman is being treated unfairly by the league. Being convicted or not does not change the fact that the league as set rules of conduct for it's members

You are right the league can set up any rule the want. But tell me honestly, if you were arrested for a crime, your job suspended you without pay for 6 months and then you are found not guilty, don't you think you would have been unfairly treated? The funny thing about lawyers. You can ask 10 different lawyers a question and you will get 10 different answers.

 

[burmafrd]

The NFL is not going to get sued over this. Get used to it. With Upshaw and the players union already saying they have bought off on the punishment, there is no case. the thugs are FINALLY getting what is coming to them, at least in the NFL if not in our pathetic joke of a so called "justice" system.

 

[Doomsday101]

You are right the league can set up any rule the want. But tell me honestly, if you were arrested for a crime, your job suspended you without pay for 6 months and then you are found not guilty, don't you think you would have been unfairly treated? The funny thing about lawyers. You can ask 10 different lawyers a question and you will get 10 different answers.

Because you beat a criminal charge does not make you innocent of any wrong doing and many times guys will beat the criminal case only to go in front of a civil court and lose because the evidence does not have to meet the higher standard of a criminal court. Pacman could very well win his criminal case however that does not change the fact that his conduct is deemed detrimental to the league.

 

[burmafrd]

The sad fact is that people now think that just because you were found innocent or guilty means you actually are. Not anymore; now it all depends on how much you have to spend for a lawyer. Nothing else really matters.

 

[Hostile]

They can have as many review boards as they like it doesn't change the fact that Jones should be punished under the old rules. Nor does it change the fact that the NFL is setting themselves up for possible legal action especially since players have been found Not Guilty.

There's a line in their policy that is specifically pointed at this.

Repeat violations of the personal conduct policy will be dealt with aggressively, including discipline for repeat offenders even when the conduct itself has not yet resulted in a conviction of a crime.

In other words, there doesn't have to be criminal guilt for them to act. I think there will be some serious challenges to some of this, but I am not sure they will be successful.

Look at the Duke LaCrosse players rape story. All kinds of action directly affecting those kids, and now all charges are going to be dropped. They were sanctioned without Due Process. Too many in this discussion think the NFL or Duke owe these players Due Process and that has NEVER been the argument.

Due Process simply means that the legal wheels are allowed to turn first before any other action is taken. I was told this is me misusing the term and principle. Nonsense.

Due Process is the driving concept behind innocent until proven guilty. The problem with that is it is great in theory, but often it falls far short of the truth. In most cases I think this falling short is right. For example, accused murderers are not free until a trial finds them guilty. If found not guilty and they are freed what does that say about their incarceration?

I don't believe most challenges of this policy will be successful, but I do believe there are some lawyers who are licking their chops to do exactly that. Pacman's and Henry's lawyers will choose their language carefully and may take their time responding to this, but make no mistake about it, they will respond. It is in the best interests of their clients to do so. One of the main themes will be that judgment upon their clients has been passed without them being afforded Due Process by the government agencies involved in their trangressions and they will argue that all punishments like this should go forward from the point of this decision to enforce and not to be retroactive.

As I have already said, I am not saying these measures will be successful, or that they are right, but I will tell you this, if I were Pacman Jones it is exactly what I would expect my lawyer to be doing for me. It wouldn't matter how guilty I am or how innocent I am of the charges. I would not want to be sanctioned. I'd cling to any action that might reverse this. That is what good lawyers do as I repeatedly said yesterday.