Parent busts bad teachers at his son's school

[rkell87]

Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs. It is great money for someone who is not college educated starting out.

few jobs start out higher than that straight out of school with a 4 year degree

 

[zrinkill]

I wish we could get rid of bad parents and bad teachers.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Well, if you got out of college at 21, it would of been 1998 for you. 1998 to 2012 is a big difference. Teachers are not guaranteed full time jobs coming out of college, usually they have to spend a year or so as a sub.

I know. My sister was a teacher for a while and she started around 96-ish. She actually made a very nice salary working in Long Island. Then she went to Atlanta and saw a big drop in pay. Of course, cost of living in Atlanta is much cheaper than Long Island.

It's not like I'm spouting this stuff half-cocked. This stuff has been disputed against teachers for years and we are talking about hourly pay compared to other professions like architectures and even engineers.

Like I said before, I'm ALL FOR teachers making more money like doctors and lawyers do. However, they should go thru the same rugged education, training and evaluation. Something tells me that if that happened, we would actually see the bad teachers who are in it for summer vacations and because they can deal with the real world be expurgated from the school systems and the true people who view teaching as a calling would be much more prevalent. The problem is that teachers want to have their cake and eat it. Life doesn't usually work that way.





YR

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Well, if you got out of college at 21, it would of been 1998 for you. 1998 to 2012 is a big difference. Teachers are not guaranteed full time jobs coming out of college, usually they have to spend a year or so as a sub.

you are no longer a Sub, you are now a teacher on call

 

[Bizwah]

This stuff goes on all of the time. It happened to me when I was in high school. Basically most of the teachers where there because they were afraid of working in the real world where they didn't have power over others and wanted summers off (of course, they would complain about their salaries despite not working during the summer).

The problem is that once a teacher gets tenure, anything outside of having sex or molesting a student will go unpunished. The bad teachers know this and use it to their advantage.It did teach me how to defend myself because even as a teenager, you don't quite understand that when you're dealing in a situation like that, you had better have detailed examples of the crap that a teacher pulls because nobody is going to believe you.

I could go on and on. I used to think 'well, someday you will look back and realize how much of a little pain in the neck you were.' But, I just look back now and think that if somebody pulled that stuff to my child, I would go ballistic. I still have a negative reaction when somebody tells me that they are a high school teacher, even though I know that not every teacher is a bad person.

I look back now and I think my parents just didn't believe me because it did come off as incredible. I never had a problem with bullying from students. Probably was in about 4 fist fights in total with other students. But, it was the bullying from the teachers that made high school a living hell for me. There's a lot of reasons why I feel sorry for this parent, but I really felt for him because he simply could not fathom that this stuff goes on. It does and the country really needs to wake up on putting every teacher on a pedastal.







YR

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

I grew up in NY.

The original post is talking about a story in NJ. I believe that as far as the rules and regulations with regards to teachers is about the same.

As you can see in this story with the autistic child, one of the offenders was simply relocated to another school. In NY it was virtually the same way. If you had tenure, the only thing that could make you lose your job was either a sexual or physical assault of a child.

In my school we had a tenured athletic director who was also a teacher who misappropriated funds and was deemed to have misappropriated funds thru a hearing. His punishment? He had to leave the school, but this would not be disclosed on his record and he could basically find a job somewhere else.

We had a teacher notorious for physically assaulting students, including myself who assaulted a football player on the football sidelines in front of a couple thousand people and all he got was a slap on the wrist and anytime another student filed a complaint about him assaulting them, the administration buried their head in the sand because there was no evidence.

We had a teacher who was notorious for hitting on girls and just so happened to be dating one of the girls within days of her graduation. This pile of garbage was best friends with the physics teachers until he had an affair with the physics teacher's wife (a computer science teacher). The school's decision? Tell the physics teacher to look for a new job while his wife and the piece of garbage get to keep their job without any reprimand.

We had a teacher who students complained that was going senile, yet kept her job for close to 10 years after this was first being reported. There was one incident in particular that was swept under the rug that I probably can't mention here. Yet, she wound up retiring. Why? She was clinicially suffering from dementia.

Obviously, some states are different. That's why I said earlier in this thread that while I cringe when I hear somebody tell me that they are a teacher, I know that it's not all bad.

But in some states if you have tenure, you just don't get fired unless it's under the most extreme circumstances.









YR

 

[Longboysfan]

I grew up in NY.

The original post is talking about a story in NJ. I believe that as far as the rules and regulations with regards to teachers is about the same.

As you can see in this story with the autistic child, one of the offenders was simply relocated to another school. In NY it was virtually the same way. If you had tenure, the only thing that could make you lose your job was either a sexual or physical assault of a child.

In my school we had a tenured athletic director who was also a teacher who misappropriated funds and was deemed to have misappropriated funds thru a hearing. His punishment? He had to leave the school, but this would not be disclosed on his record and he could basically find a job somewhere else.

We had a teacher notorious for physically assaulting students, including myself who assaulted a football player on the football sidelines in front of a couple thousand people and all he got was a slap on the wrist and anytime another student filed a complaint about him assaulting them, the administration buried their head in the sand because there was no evidence.

We had a teacher who was notorious for hitting on girls and just so happened to be dating one of the girls within days of her graduation. This pile of garbage was best friends with the physics teachers until he had an affair with the physics teacher's wife (a computer science teacher). The school's decision? Tell the physics teacher to look for a new job while his wife and the piece of garbage get to keep their job without any reprimand.

We had a teacher who students complained that was going senile, yet kept her job for close to 10 years after this was first being reported. There was one incident in particular that was swept under the rug that I probably can't mention here. Yet, she wound up retiring. Why? She was clinicially suffering from dementia.

Obviously, some states are different. That's why I said earlier in this thread that while I cringe when I hear somebody tell me that they are a teacher, I know that it's not all bad.

But in some states if you have tenure, you just don't get fired unless it's under the most extreme circumstances.









YR

The NJEA holds the parents and voters under their thumb. Who do you think is the top contributor to the campaigns and the party in power in NJ.

Look no furthur than the NJEA. You wouder why they go after this most powerful lobby. All they do is protect the bad at the cost of the 90% better educators in place.

You are right YR.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Yes, so $32K a year(not working summers), is not great money for someone who goes to school for 4yrs. It is great money for someone who is not college educated starting out.

In the United States, the average starting salary of a new worker with a four-year bachelor's degree is $31,500.00. Even the highest average starting salaries for four year graduates are only around $60,000. That is IF you get a job, as less than half of first year postgrads obtain a job in their desired career field these days.

The issue with teaching isnt the startign salary, it's the salary ceiling. Typically you have to work in the same district for 20+ years to crack $60,000 unless it's a very, very nice district (Katy or Highland Park, for instance).

 

[The30YardSlant]

I don't know where you get your information, but this is DEAD WRONG in my state!

I am a tenured teacher in MO. I can tell you that I can be fired at any time. The ONLY thing tenure does is give me due process. If I am not an effective teacher anymore, all my administrator needs to do is meet with me.....tell me the areas that are lacking....and give me an opportunity to correct it. If I don't, they can let me go.

One of the men I teach with (who is a fantastic teacher, BTW) questioned one of our administrators about an issue he thought was unfair. He was very much in danger of being fired. As a matter of fact, he would have been fired....but, he had to agree to read a book on effective communication strategies, and he had to meet with me (I was to act as a mentor and go-between) to discuss the book.

I agree....many teachers in the profession are in it because they don't know what else to do. Many teachers, especially later in their careers, check out. These teachers need to be replaced. But, don't blame the teachers. If you have effective administrators, then bad teachers aren't hired year after year. Bad teachers are replaced, or receive training to help them improve.

Most teachers I work with are in the profession because they love kids (nothing is more rewarding than to see the "Now, I get it" look!), they love their content area (history is my PASSION), or they want to make a difference. Actually, most of us are in it for all three reasons.

I honestly don't know what kind of education you had....but for you to have such a negative view of teachers it must have been pretty bad. Rest assured there are still many of us that love the profession, love the students, and love our communities!

Tenure means a lot more at universities than in does in K-12. A college professor, especially at a major university, essentially has to be caught on film commiting a felony to be fired. And that is not an exaggeration.

Now, grade school teachers are very different because frankly they are a dime a dozen and there will be 1,000 people lined up to apply for any job that comes open.

 

[Longboysfan]

The issue with teaching isnt the startign salary, it's the salary ceiling. Typically you have to work in the same district for 20+ years to crack $60,000 unless it's a very, very nice district (Katy or Highland Park, for instance).

Or just about anywhere in New Jersey where the bottom is well over 35K and the top is about $110K.

 

[tomson75]

Or just about anywhere in New Jersey where the bottom is well over 35K and the top is about $110K.

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

Yeah.

This isn't about the vid at all because I didn't even watch it. And I don't question that some teachers need to be fired but aren't. (That sounds more like a strong-union question than anything, which is why there's a difference between states.)

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I feel bad for them having to deal with unruly kids *and* their parents these days. It's just a different mentality that parents seem to have now.

(And again to be clear, this is not about what happened to the autistic child. If a teacher is a sorry SOB, of course they should be disciplined.)

 

[Yakuza Rich]

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I actually agree with this. I've never had to deal with this personally since I'm not a teacher or a coach. But, I've seen it up close and personal with others. There's a woman who manages a golf course I belong to and she basically allowed the kids to use a small ramp for skating in an area near the golf course as long as they didn't bother the golfers. The kids would hide the ramp behind a tree. One day the ramp went missing and the kid yelled at her, saying that she took the ramp away (which she had nothing to do with). Then the kids started skating thru the parking lot and bothering golfers. When the woman pulled them aside and told them to knock it off and how she let them have the ramp there even though the course was under no obligation, the kid skated off and called her a foul name at the top of his lungs. I was on the driving range hearing this and wanted to strangle the kid myself.

Of course, the mother calls up and the kid concocts a completely different story to his mother. His mother shows up to the course and starts yelling at the woman. I see it happening and intervene and tell the mother that I witnessed the entire thing and I don't work there and saw exactly what her 'angel' did. Incredibly, but not surprisingly, the mother starts yelling at me, which of course prompted me to yell back and put her down every single way I could.

That's why I wrote earlier in this thread that parents really need to be skeptical of BOTH their children and the teachers and what they say. I hate the high school I went to because of the teachers. Oddly enough, I got along swimmingly with the Principal. But, his hands were tied most of the time with the crap that went on. I had friends and family that went to other schools who had the same type of behavior and personality as I did and they didn't have much trouble with teachers. And I believe that it was a case of a different school with better teachers.

But the main point is that there are some bad teachers out there that are in it for all of the wrong reasons. Acting like that is never the case or an exception to the rule is just as bad as thinking your child is an angel. Treat every situation for what they are instead of what you pre-judge them to be.









YR

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

You would have to pay me a lot more than that to teach middle or high school students in New Jersey. A LOT more.

you don't want to teach a room full of Snookies, Deenas and JWowwws?

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Yeah.

This isn't about the vid at all because I didn't even watch it. And I don't question that some teachers need to be fired but aren't. (That sounds more like a strong-union question than anything, which is why there's a difference between states.)

But I don't envy teachers at all. As I think Idgit said earlier, there's a big disconnect between teachers and parents that used to not exist. When I was a kid, parents sided with the teacher. You were sent to school and were expected to do as you were told. If you did something wrong and the teacher punished you somehow, you deserved it. Now, too many parents believe their child is an angel who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, and at the first little incident, the teacher is being attacked for being mean to their precious. (Same thing with coaches, btw.)

I feel bad for them having to deal with unruly kids *and* their parents these days. It's just a different mentality that parents seem to have now.

I understand what you mean but I am not going to let some butthead teacher ruin my son's self-esteem by shaming him by making him stand outside class if he is loud, make him feel badly for whatever.

Irony of course is that I let his hockey coaches do more to him than his teachers. Then again, his hockey coaches know better how to handle 8 year old boys than any of the battle axes he has had for teachers so far.