Patrick Chung - why the love

[Bob Sacamano]

Witten is 6'5" and 265. That is 8 inches in height and about 60 pounds in weight.

which is why putting a smallish safety on them is putting them at a disadvantage

 

[tomson75]

LOL. I don't think so. I am not making any sweeping claims. I am only saying that even the short speedy safeties are getting bigger (Polamalu, Sanders, Reed, are speed/coverage guys who are at least 200 lbs). Once upon a time, the FS could play under 200 lbs. No longer.

Mmmm...OK. So now you're just limiting it to FS? There are still plenty of FS playing under 200lbs, but you're right, they are typically getting slightly bigger because the two positions are becoming more versatile and interchangeable. There aren't, however, very many 220+ lb SS that used to be a dime a dozen in the league. There just aren't very many guys that size that can match up with todays passing attacks. Let's try and stick to the safety position as a whole, rather than sway the argument to FS just to suite your side of the discussion.

Vela uses 2008 as his sample, too limited, any researcher knows that a larger sample size will produce more accurate results.

He uses 2008 because we're talking about the latest trends in the uses of the safety position. Why wouldn't he? He uses the playoff teams because he wants to show what trends the successful teams were using. It's common sense.

I would've been more useful if he had given a comparison year however, say....2001.

Besides, in any era, the LB sized safety that could run/cover like a corner was a precious commodity. There were less in 2008, not just b/c teams wanted cover safeties, but because they were rare players to begin with. If a team had a choice of Jim Leonard and Adrian Wilson, I think 99.9% would choose Adrian Wilson.

No, 210+ lb (not so long ago, that was "LB size) safeties have been around for quite some time, and they have been used with great success in various eras of the NFL. It's cyclical. When the NFl was dominated by big OLines and bruising RB's, the Roy Williams of the NFL were the ****. Guess what? He's not anymore...and it's not because he's getting bigger.

Overall, the safety position is getting smaller and faster.

 

[BAT]

Mmmm...OK. So now you're just limiting it to FS? There are still plenty of FS playing under 200lbs, but you're right, they are typically getting slightly bigger because the two positions are becoming more versatile and interchangeable.

Overall, the safety position is getting smaller and faster.

So you agree that the FS safety is getting bigger, but you conclude that "overall" the position group is getting smaller (and faster, but I already agreed with this)? Which is it?


If you are saying that the SS position is getting smaller and faster, your argument (though not necessarily correct) would make more sense.

 

[BAT]

There aren't, however, very many 220+ lb SS that used to be a dime a dozen in the league.

LB sized safeties may have been MORE common, but LB sized safeties who could cover like a corner, have NEVER been a dime a dozen, in ANY league.

He uses 2008 because we're talking about the latest trends in the uses of the safety position. Why wouldn't he? He uses the playoff teams because he wants to show what trends the successful teams were using. It's common sense.

Trend is a PATTERN, one year does not a pattern make. For now, it is a coincidence, or an emerging trend. Like I said, next year's draft will blow this hypothesis out of the water when Taylor Mays & others (LSU Chad Jones, Ole Miss Jamar Hornsby, ARK Anthony Leon, etc.) come out. Not to mention, Vela's results would have been significantly different if Sean Taylor were still alive and playing.


I would've been more useful if he had given a comparison year however, say....2001. No, 210+ lb (not so long ago, that was "LB size) safeties have been around for quite some time, and they have been used with great success in various eras of the NFL. It's cyclical. When the NFl was dominated by big OLines and bruising RB's, the Roy Williams of the NFL were the ****. Guess what? He's not anymore...and it's not because he's getting bigger.

???

Size AND speed (you keep leaving this out) combo at safety is less common simply b/c it is uncomon. Josh Garrett is going to be a player in Denver (and he is LB sized w/DB speed), same w/Sabby Piscatelli in Tampa Bay. What happens to your "trend" then? Or even sooner, when William Moore, Chip Vaughn & Bruton line up at safety for whichever team that picks them (they will not be NFL LBs).

Bottom line, Vela's "trend" is premature. Lets see what happens with a sampling of a season, or two, more.

 

[tomson75]

???

Size AND speed (you keep leaving this out) combo at safety is less common simply b/c it is uncomon. Josh Garrett is going to be a player in Denver (and he is LB sized w/DB speed), same w/Sabby Piscatelli in Tampa Bay. What happens to your "trend" then? Or even sooner, when William Moore, Chip Vaughn & Bruton line up at safety for whichever team that picks them (they will not be NFL LBs).

Bottom line, Vela's "trend" is premature. Lets see what happens with a sampling of a season, or two, more.

I've been referring to the Safety positions as a whole form the beginning of this discussion. The entire premise of my original post with the link suggests as much.

I never said that LB sized safeties that could cover were common. They still aren't. Hence the current trend of very few LB size safeties....due to the current need for safeties to cover far more than in the past.

SS in general are 10-20lbs lighter. FS in general are 0-10lbs heavier.....see what I mean? They're meeting in the middle...but overall, they're getting lighter.

...at least that's what the current facts suggest, and that's what I was attempting to convey.