Patrick Chung - why the love

[BAT]

Moore is more athletic than Chung though and won't be as easily outmatched at the next level. He makes more plays on the ball and would be great at SS. The only thing that worries me about Moore is his injuries.

Moore sucked at SS. The thing that worries me about Moore is his lack of instincts. He is at his best playing downhill as a center fielder type FS, great size but his tackling is inconsistent and he is really not comfortable in man coverage.


Rashad Johnson, and Pat Chung, have the best leadership, instincts & work ethic of the bunch. Delmas is more dynamic, b/c he does everything at full-speed, but he is not as athletic as either Johnson or Chung. The bigger problem is that both Johnson and even Delmas are better suited for FS, not currently a need position for Dallas.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Moore sucked at SS. The thing that worries me about Moore is his lack of instincts. He is at his best playing downhill as a center fielder type FS, great size but his tackling is inconsistent and he is really not comfortable in man coverage.


Rashad Johnson, and Pat Chung, have the best leadership, instincts & work ethic of the bunch. Delmas is more dynamic, b/c he does everything at full-speed, but he is not as athletic as either Johnson or Chung. The bigger problem is that both Johnson and even Delmas are better suited for FS, not currently a need position for Dallas.

if you read Moore's scouting report, he sounds alot like Ken Hamlin

but you got to like a big dude like him that can scoot

 

[Zaxor]

I am not a Chung fan

 

[RESIN8]

I am not a Chung fan

the question was are you a wang chung fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ernCPFVe8wU&feature=related

 

[Zaxor]

the question was are you a wang chung fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ernCPFVe8wU&feature=related

LOL :laugh2:

 

[jterrell]

Chung looked good n coverage at the Senior Bowl. Certainly far better than William Moore did.

He was considered a stiff RW type prior to the Senior Bowl but covered well in practice man for man and looked surprisingly good at the game.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2009/seniorbowl/stock.html

excerpted....

Patrick Chung, SS, Oregon � Chung earned the reputation as an in-the-box safety at Oregon. He was a physical tackler that would come down in run support. At the Senior Bowl, he showed just the opposite to be true as well. As he matched up with wide receivers on the outside in one-on-one drills, he showed tight coverage and a natural instinct to look for the football in the air. He played well all week and laid the lumber early in the game to mark his territory, letting receivers know he was on the field. Chung will compete with a couple names to be the first safety off the board, possibly in the first round.


Now all that said he'd rank for me after Delmas and Rashad Johnson. I like Delmas' coverage skills better and like both guys leadership better.

But I would take Chung easily ahead of Moore who is to me a boom or bust guy that can make plays but also will get burned badly.

 

[jterrell]

Moore sucked at SS. The thing that worries me about Moore is his lack of instincts. He is at his best playing downhill as a center fielder type FS, great size but his tackling is inconsistent and he is really not comfortable in man coverage.


Rashad Johnson, and Pat Chung, have the best leadership, instincts & work ethic of the bunch. Delmas is more dynamic, b/c he does everything at full-speed, but he is not as athletic as either Johnson or Chung. The bigger problem is that both Johnson and even Delmas are better suited for FS, not currently a need position for Dallas.

About 30 minutes after we draft a safety Jerry will tell everyone we took a safety who we felt could cover and we wanted to shore up that area of the field.

The Cowboys plays a safety position that is interchangeable. They do not have a true FS/SS setup. Both guys end up covering deep middle at times.

That's why they couldn't hide RW. At some point he had to man cover TEs and at some point he had to cover deep areas.

We are not drafting another strong safety, we are gonna draft a guy who can cover.

 

[BAT]

About 30 minutes after we draft a safety Jerry will tell everyone we took a safety who we felt could cover and we wanted to shore up that area of the field.

The Cowboys plays a safety position that is interchangeable. They do not have a true FS/SS setup. Both guys end up covering deep middle at times.

That's why they couldn't hide RW. At some point he had to man cover TEs and at some point he had to cover deep areas.

We are not drafting another strong safety, we are gonna draft a guy who can cover.

Then that will have to be either Chung or Delmas, Johnson would be manhandled by TEs. Heck, I'm not sure Delmas is strong enough to cover TEs like Witten, Shockey or Gonzalez. And I doubt he's athletic enough to stay with the Winslows, Gates or VDavis' of the NFL. That is why safeties are getting bigger (heavier), not necessarily taller. Lack of body mass is one of Delmas' weaknesses, never mind Rashad Johnson's.

 

[tomson75]

Then that will have to be either Chung or Delmas, Johnson would be manhandled by TEs. Heck, I'm not sure Delmas is strong enough to cover TEs like Witten, Shockey or Gonzalez. And I doubt he's athletic enough to stay with the Winslows, Gates or VDavis' of the NFL. That is why safeties are getting bigger (heavier), not necessarily taller. Lack of body mass is one of Delmas' weaknesses, never mind Rashad Johnson's.

Getting bigger eh?

 

[reddyuta]

About 30 minutes after we draft a safety Jerry will tell everyone we took a safety who we felt could cover and we wanted to shore up that area of the field.

The Cowboys plays a safety position that is interchangeable. They do not have a true FS/SS setup. Both guys end up covering deep middle at times.

That's why they couldn't hide RW. At some point he had to man cover TEs and at some point he had to cover deep areas.

We are not drafting another strong safety, we are gonna draft a guy who can cover.

I agree somewhat but a strong safety who cant tackle jacobs,portis and westbrook will be useless to us.our SS has to be a good tackler foremost.

 

[BAT]

Getting bigger eh?

Yes, getting bigger, as in heavier, b/c the TEs are already bigger, now they are getting more athletic. Safeties under 200 lbs have struggled / will continue to stuggle, mightily. I agree that the Safeties are also getting faster as well (hence some of them are shorter to compensate, but even the guys under 5'10 are still over 200 lbs).


But Vela's sample is skewed. It is not even an accurate conclusion. Roy was not in due to injury, Leonard was in only due to injury. Sean Taylor would also have skewed his results even further.



He makes a conclusion and tries to shoe horn the numbers to fit. It would have been more accurate if he showed a range of years. Next years' safety class will blow his hypothesis off the board.

 

[tomson75]

Yes, getting bigger, as in heavier, b/c the TEs are already bigger, now they are getting more athletic. Safeties under 200 lbs have struggled / will continue to stuggle, mightily. I agree that the Safeties are also getting faster as well (hence some of them are shorter to compensate, but even the guys under 5'10 are still over 200 lbs).


But Vela's sample is skewed. It is not even an accurate conclusion. Roy was not in due to injury, Leonard was in only due to injury. Sean Taylor would also have skewed his results even further.



He makes a conclusion and tries to shoe horn the numbers to fit. It would have been more accurate if he showed a range of years. Next years' safety class will blow his hypothesis off the board.

No, that's what you're trying to do.

Roy, even if he were the safety that he onc

 

[BAT]

No, that's what you're trying to do.

Roy, even if he were the safety that he onc

LOL. I don't think so. I am not making any sweeping claims. I am only saying that even the short speedy safeties are getting bigger (Polamalu, Sanders, Reed, are speed/coverage guys who are at least 200 lbs). Once upon a time, the FS could play under 200 lbs. No longer.


Vela uses 2008 as his sample, too limited, any researcher knows that a larger sample size will produce more accurate results.


Besides, in any era, the LB sized safety that could run/cover like a corner was a precious commodity. There were less in 2008, not just b/c teams wanted cover safeties, but because they were rare players to begin with. If a team had a choice of Jim Leonard and Adrian Wilson, I think 99.9% would choose Adrian Wilson.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

LOL. I don't think so. I am not making any sweeping claims. I am only saying that even the short speedy safeties are getting bigger (Polamalu, Sanders, Reed, are speed/coverage guys who are at least 200 lbs). Once upon a time, the FS could play under 200 lbs. No longer.


Vela uses 2008 as his sample, too limited, any researcher knows that a larger sample size will produce more accurate results.


Besides, in any era, the LB sized safety that could run/cover like a corner was a precious commodity. There were less in 2008, not just b/c teams wanted cover safeties, but because they were rare players to begin with. If a team had a choice of Jim Leonard and Adrian Wilson, I think 99.9% would choose Adrian Wilson.

 

[jterrell]

LOL. I don't think so. I am not making any sweeping claims. I am only saying that even the short speedy safeties are getting bigger (Polamalu, Sanders, Reed, are speed/coverage guys who are at least 200 lbs). Once upon a time, the FS could play under 200 lbs. No longer.


Vela uses 2008 as his sample, too limited, any researcher knows that a larger sample size will produce more accurate results.


Besides, in any era, the LB sized safety that could run/cover like a corner was a precious commodity. There were less in 2008, not just b/c teams wanted cover safeties, but because they were rare players to begin with. If a team had a choice of Jim Leonard and Adrian Wilson, I think 99.9% would choose Adrian Wilson.

Polamalu and Sanders are both smallish overall and play strong safety. They are outstanding tacklers who take on guys that outweigh them by 30 pounds easily.

Polamalu really doesn't play safety he plays a free lance position LeBeau created that allows him to just run to the ball. Sanders plays a SS position in a tampa cover 2 that Roy Williams dearly wants to play because it requires less man coverage.

Ed Reed is the best ballhawk in football but an average at best tackler so your examples are all over the place.

But Vela's numbers are right on the money. He just took the facts as they are which is that current Pro Bowl safeties are no longer 6'3" and 240 pounds.

I agree that the guys who are massive and can cover are rare. The key is you have to have a guy that can cover nowadays moreso than a tackler.

Jacobs, Portis and Westbrook are all different players. Laron Landry can't tackle Brandon Jacobs but how many teams would bench Laron Landry? And Portis is a speed guy with toughness that 200 pound safeties can tackle. Portis himself is only 220.

Polamalu is 207, Sanders 208.

That is light for a safety. Landry is 230 and got trucked by Jacobs.

End of the day this is just common sense. The NFL is more pass-oriented than ever and thus defenses have to focus more and more on defending the pass.

But safeties should be able to play coverage and tackle. That is what the position entails. Its just nowadays that safety has to be more Darren Woodson and less Roy Williams.

 

[BAT]

Polamalu and Sanders are both smallish overall and play strong safety. They are outstanding tacklers who take on guys that outweigh them by 30 pounds easily.

Polamalu is 207, Sanders 208.

That is light for a safety. Landry is 230 and got trucked by Jacobs.

You do realize that Sanders is 5'8 and Polamalu is just over 5'9, right? That is NOT light for their size.

 

[jterrell]

You do realize that Sanders is 5'8 and Polamalu is just over 5'9, right? That is NOT light for their size.

How does that matter at all?

Its small for a safety period. If they came out now and when they did come out that size was factored against them. Polamalu is generally listed at 5'10" and fell to pick 16 even after starring at USC on teams considered some of the most talented in college football history. 5'10" and 207 isn't very big.

How do I know? Because I am currently just a hair under 6 feet and weigh 210. Its not very large. I have a workout buddy who is 5'7" and 235. That is large.

Sanders fell to round 2 because he is a midget being listed at 5'8". A midget who is listed at 206 pounds. But again that's just small period. And is why he fell to round 2 after starting and starring ever since the end of his freshman year in college.

Again the point is what you have to have now that you didn't need before is man coverage abilities. At least if we are going to continue to play the schemes we want to.

If Darren Woodson and Ronnie Lott were both in their prime right now Woody would be a first ballot unanimous Hall of Famer and Lott would be playing weakside linebacker for some 4-3 team.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

How does that matter at all?

Its small for a safety period. If they came out now and when they did come out that size was factored against them. Polamalu is generally listed at 5'10" and fell to pick 16 even after starring at USC on teams considered some of the most talented in college football history. 5'10" and 207 isn't very big.

How do I know? Because I am currently just a hair under 6 feet and weigh 210. Its not very large. I have a workout buddy who is 5'7" and 235. That is large.

Sanders fell to round 2 because he is a midget being listed at 5'8". A midget who is listed at 206 pounds. But again that's just small period. And is why he fell to round 2 after starting and starring ever since the end of his freshman year in college.

Again the point is what you have to have now that you didn't need before is man coverage abilities. At least if we are going to continue to play the schemes we want to.

If Darren Woodson and Ronnie Lott were both in their prime right now Woody would be a first ballot unanimous Hall of Famer and Lott would be playing weakside linebacker for some 4-3 team.

a guy who is 5'8" 200 is pretty stout, esp. if you look at Bob Sanders, who is pretty thick, which I think is the point that RS12 is making

the only disadvantage he has is his small stature, not size, would preclude him from being able to effectively run and cover TEs who stand 5 or 6 inches above him, who could use their 240-250lb bodies to block him away from the path of the ball

 

[jterrell]

a guy who is 5'8" 200 is pretty stout, esp. if you look at Bob Sanders, who is pretty thick, which I think is the point that RS12 is making

the only disadvantage he has is his small stature, not size, would preclude him from being able to effectively run and cover TEs who stand 5 or 6 inches above him, who could use their 240-250lb bodies to block him away from the path of the ball

Witten is 6'5" and 265. That is 8 inches in height and about 60 pounds in weight.

 

[BAT]

If Darren Woodson and Ronnie Lott were both in their prime right now Woody would be a first ballot unanimous Hall of Famer and Lott would be playing weakside linebacker for some 4-3 team.

And this is why we are going to have to end this discussion, if these are going to be your examples. Besides, the obvious "wha tha fug??" not sure what you are intimating, Lott was good enough in coverage to play corner AT A PRO BOWL LEVEL. And Woodson was BIGGER than Lott.

In fact, Woodson (at 6'1 228 4.45) is a very good example of the RARE player who has the speed/coverage ability of a corner and the size/thump of a LB. Thank you for proving my point.