Pats or A-Roid More Tainted?

WPBCowboysFan

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You continue to miss the entire point of my posts. I am not here trying to defend Arod or the Pats. It just comes across as very sanctimonious for you to rant about both of them and then turn a blind eye when it turns out that your team cheats too.

Hardly the case. To say my team cheats when Raffy got a 10 day suspension and was named in the Mitchell report along with a large number of players from all teams with the exception of the Red Sux at a time when some have estimated that the majority of players were using PED's isnt ANYTHING like A-Fraud continuing to use after PED's were actually banned in the sport and then lie about it repeatedly on his way to a full season suspension. So when baseball said enuff was enuff and made PED use a punishable offense A-Roid still tried to circumvent the rules and lie about it. And the Patriots who have a history of cheating, and then got caught and lied about it are much more similar to A-Fraud than they are to a pitcher doing what many pitchers do with sun screen. To borrow a Rogah analogy, what Matusz did was like a parking ticket and what A-Roid and the Pats did was much closer to an Aaron Hernandez type offense.
 

bb721

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Hardly the case. To say my team cheats when Raffy got a 10 day suspension and was named in the Mitchell report along with a large number of players from all teams with the exception of the Red Sux at a time when some have estimated that the majority of players were using PED's isnt ANYTHING like A-Fraud continuing to use after PED's were actually banned in the sport and then lie about it repeatedly on his way to a full season suspension. So when baseball said enuff was enuff and made PED use a punishable offense A-Roid still tried to circumvent the rules and lie about it. And the Patriots who have a history of cheating, and then got caught and lied about it are much more similar to A-Fraud than they are to a pitcher doing what many pitchers do with sun screen. To borrow a Rogah analogy, what Matusz did was like a parking ticket and what A-Roid and the Pats did was much closer to an Aaron Hernandez type offense.

So it's pretty clear that you are comfortable with trying to justify or minimize cheating if it involves your team, but it's wrong when someone else does it. It's funny how much you are staring to sound like a Pats fan.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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So it's pretty clear that you are comfortable with trying to justify or minimize cheating if it involves your team, but it's wrong when someone else does it. It's funny how much you are staring to sound like a Pats fan.

No, I think it is you missing the point. Not justifying anything, simply acknowledging reality and comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. All crimes are not punished equally because all crimes are not equivalent.

So let me ask you. If my kid lies about eating a cookie before dinner is that equivalent to Brady lying at a press conference, or Clinton lying about Monica Lewinsky under oath?
 

bb721

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No, I think it is you missing the point. Not justifying anything, simply acknowledging reality and comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges. All crimes are not punished equally because all crimes are not equivalent.

So let me ask you. If my kid lies about eating a cookie before dinner is that equivalent to Brady lying at a press conference, or Clinton lying about Monica Lewinsky under oath?

Of course they are equivalent. Lying is lying, and cheating is cheating. The fact that one of the lies is told by your kid and another one is told by an athlete or a president that is irrelevant. You've been lied to in either case. It's the consequenses and punishment that will be different, not the offense.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Of course they are equivalent. Lying is lying, and cheating is cheating. The fact that one of the lies is told by your kid and another one is told by an athlete or a president that is irrelevant. You've been lied to in either case. It's the consequenses and punishment that will be different, not the offense.

Why would the consequences and punishment be different if they are equivalent offense's?
 

bb721

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Why would the consequences and punishment be different if they are equivalent offense's?

Seriously? Because we don't all have the same judge and jury. The way you choose to discipline your child for eating the cookie won't necessarily be the same as the way the league chooses to discipline Brady. No offense, but you seem to have an agenda rather than trying to be realistic. Arod cheated. The Pats cheated. The Orioles cheated. They aren't the only ones. Time to get down off of your soap box and move on.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Seriously? Because we don't all have the same judge and jury. The way you choose to discipline your child for eating the cookie won't necessarily be the same as the way the league chooses to discipline Brady. No offense, but you seem to have an agenda rather than trying to be realistic. Arod cheated. The Pats cheated. The Orioles cheated. They aren't the only ones. Time to get down off of your soap box and move on.

Rogah?

Of course seriously. If all lies, or all misdeeds were equivalent then the consequences would be equivalent. The very FACT that all of society has different punishments for different offenses, or different circumstances where the offenses were committed, is proof enuff that all offenses are not equal.
 

Section446

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Until the NFL really does something about it, I'd keep cheating if I were the Patriots. Good for them for continuing to find ways to win championships.
 

WPBCowboysFan

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Typo or Urban Dictionary definition?

I was referring to the poster here. But I looked up the urban dictionary meaning, and must say the part about being on drugs certainly fits him :D. The rest, not so much . . . .

TOP DEFINITION

rogah
Sexyness, some of the nicest/hottest persons on the world and likes to use drugs.
You are such a ... rogah!
by Rogier October 28, 2007
SHOP
 

DandyDon52

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Until the NFL really does something about it, I'd keep cheating if I were the Patriots. Good for them for continuing to find ways to win championships.

lol good one.
Just imagine the pats won 4 super bowls just by adjusting air pressure in the balls !!!!!! :huh:
Plus they got to 2 others and lost ! what happened could not deflate the balls in those games?
Or maybe the other team deflated theirs more!
the patriots will not even make the playoffs now that they have to use non deflated balls ! no more afc championships !
no more SB's:grin:
 

burmafrd

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when you look at the patsy SB 'wins' they all came down to a couple of plays. Cheating might have been the edge that got those wins
 

DandyDon52

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when you look at the patsy SB 'wins' they all came down to a couple of plays. Cheating might have been the edge that got those wins

They were close games , but
how were they cheating in those games?
are we sure no other teams have been deflating balls? the refs obviously have not been checking this.
And did they cheat all year to win div, playoff games, and AFC championship?

you know I just thought the Ball romo fumbled in the 2006 seattle game was not only slick but probably OVER inflated.
That was cheating too, after that a rule change was made on balls for pat.
 

Yakuza Rich

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They were close games , but
how were they cheating in those games?
are we sure no other teams have been deflating balls? the refs obviously have not been checking this.
And did they cheat all year to win div, playoff games, and AFC championship?

you know I just thought the Ball romo fumbled in the 2006 seattle game was not only slick but probably OVER inflated.
That was cheating too, after that a rule change was made on balls for pat.

It appears that the cheating for the underinflated footballs took place in 2007 which coincides with the rule change, Brady having his worst year of fumbles per sack and right after Belichick wrote the foreword to the book Football Physics which dealt with things like changing the properties of the football and the surrounding environment and how that affects the aerodynamics of the football.

This caused an incredible drop of the team's fumble rate to the point where the 2nd best fumble rate from an outdoor team versus the worst rate of an outdoor team was only by about 2 plays. That's a very low deviation, yet the Patriots were at a rate 20 plays better than the 2nd best outdoor team. This coming from a team that plays in some of the nastiest conditions in the entire NFL.

So when you factor in the importance of turnovers in the game, perhaps they don't win a game in October that is the difference between them getting HFA or having to travel on the road. Perhaps they don't win that divisional playoff game because an early fumble gets returned for a TD and completely changes the complexion of the game.

And the fact is that there appears to be a clear advantage of underinflating a football whereas outside of kicking a football, it is a disadvantage to have an overinflated football. The Vikings got 'caught' trying to heat their football which was probably done with the intent of not having an underinflated football. So the intent was not there to gain an advantage and there's the other nasty fact that the Vikings haven't blatantly cheated like the Patriots did with SpyGate.

As far as the Romo football, they ended up making a change to the rule and giving a 'K-Ball' to teams instead. IIRC, part of the issue was that the *Seahawks* were in charge of that football and because it appeared slick (Romo was never a great holder anyway), there was a worry that teams could fool around with the field goal football.

Meanwhile, the league did have the chance to measure another team's footballs....the Colts. And the Colts' footballs were within the limit that they were supposed to be.

The Patriots do not have a leg to stand on. They were caught with getting a huge advantage before by cheating in SpyGate. Their coach wrote the foreword to a book that dealt with things similar to underinflating a football and what it could do. Their QB was caught in texts paying equipment guys to underinflate the balls. The timeline of when they started to underinflate the footballs coincides with a massive improvement in their fumble rate, so much so that it became a clear outlier.

Essentially, the Patriots have pulled out all of the stops to cheat before, they had a motive for cheating again, the cheating coincides with a massive improvement in their fumble rate and the league has evidence from texts, the footballs themselves and video of McNally going into the bathroom by himself with the footballs (not supposed to do that).

It's just cold, hard facts that Patriots fans have to face and it really bothers them that the legacy of Kraft, Belichick and Brady will forever be tarnished.




YR
 

LittleBoyBlue

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Do we need to alter thread title?


Pats or A-Roid More Tainted?

Change to

Pats or A-Roid or Orioles More Tainted?

Lolol
 
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