Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[TheDude]

Is it that hard to understand for you?

We're all condemning Joe Paterno because he had information of children possibly suffering because of Sandusky given to him from another source, and he informed his superiors about it and may or may not have followed up with them on it. He didn't see it happen or know for sure if it happened.

Yet all of us in this country who live as well as we do, have full knowledge that there are children in other countries suffering and even dying every day because they are starving and can't get enough food to eat. They are suffering every day of starvation until they die, and if we all just gave a few cents a day even, many less children would suffer or die.. yet most of us don't do it.

Think about it for a few minutes.. We know how to help, we know there are children suffering and dying, yet most of us choose to do nothing about it.

Are you actually using the Miss America "End World Hunger" moral soapbox.

First, if a child is dying of hunger in my dining room/front yard/or work office, I would take care of that.

Comparing that to "kids starving in Africa. Americans are selfish and to blame" - is the rantings of a sad little person going all in to save face.

Enjoy

 

[TheDude]

Im not talking about world hunger.. im talking about helping a few children not suffer or die. One person is up to the task of doing that, and that is what Joe could've done if he had followed up on the allegations he was told about (assuming he didn't which may not be true) yet we all are so quick to condemn him. He could have helped a few children not suffer.

Also, please don't talk about what kind of person i am, as you have no idea and only sound foolish to suggest things about me, especially how moral or immoral i am.

The more you talk, the more I have a feeling every knows the person you are.

You spend all this time defending a football game or institution you have no life dependent interest in while chasting others for the "thought" Americans don't do enough for world Hunger.

 

[Stautner]

That wasn't the analogy. The analogy, in your world, was the parent/AD is absolved from having the same responsibility as a parent/GM in your world because the parent/AD has multiple children/sports where a GM has one. Not that hard.

But since you can't understand and offered up another scenario. Yes. If a parent screws up and gets fired, loses their house, income etc. then children do suffer in standard of living, college afforabiolity, reputation, etc. domino effect/collateral damage

Thanks for giving me an unrelated but just as germane point

Your logic fails again. I never said anything about absolving the AD from anything. That's another of your fabrications, or at least your illogical reactions. In fact, I have numerous times said I am all for the AD being dealt with as harshly as possible.

I'll try and repeat it again though and hope it sticks rather than having the same false versions of what I am saying thrown at me over and over. It's not so difficult, so let's give it a shot.

I am all for punishing the individuals involved as harshly as possible, including the AD, and including firing Paterno and McQueary and never allowing them to coach again. I've said that before - more than once. What I'm saying is that to our knowledge the issue didn't go beyond that small handful of people, did not involve 99% of the people within the football program, and didn't deal with how the football program was actually run.

Your apparent thought that unless I advocate punishing the entire football program I am somehow absolving the AD and those who were involved is flawed, and not only illogical, it's actually comical that you would think it logical.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Are you actually using the Miss America "End World Hunger" moral soapbox.

First, if a child is dying of hunger in my dining room/front yard/or work office, I would take care of that.

Comparing that to "kids starving in Africa. Americans are selfish and to blame" - is the rantings of a sad little person going all in to save face.

Enjoy

How is it different? Its not a soapbox at all.. i could do more as well. Its something to make you think for two seconds about how hypocritical we all are sometimes.

Why is it different that a kid isn't in your home, when you still know that they are starving and suffering and you know exactly how to help and you don't do it? Why is that different? I'd love to hear why..

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The more you talk, the more I have a feeling every knows the person you are.

You spend all this time defending a football game or institution you have no life dependent interest in while chasting others for the "thought" Americans don't do enough for world Hunger.

Im not defending a football game. I will defend the university as a whole and the man everyone seems to want to jump on with no real information of what exactly he did. The university as a whole is not the issue. Joe Paterno is not the guy going around raping little kids, yet he is the man being talked about and criticized more than anyone else.. even the child raper. Its silliness. I know in our minds we're all the hero's all the time, but none of you know exactly what situation he was in yet, what he actually did do, or what you would have done in the same situation.

..and if you'd like to join the list of foolish people who act like they know a stranger over the internet then be my guest.

 

[Bill Wooten]

Im not defending a football game. I will defend the university as a whole and the man everyone seems to want to jump on with no real information of what exactly he did. The university as a whole is not the issue. Joe Paterno is not the guy going around raping little kids, yet he is the man being talked about and criticized more than anyone else.. even the child raper. Its silliness. I know in our minds we're all the hero's all the time, but none of you know exactly what situation he was in yet, what he actually did do, or what you would have done in the same situation.

..and if you'd like to join the list of foolish people who act like they know a stranger over the internet then be my guest.

Paterno is being talked about more because he is the one that has been put on a pedestal as the moral compass for college football. The quote from Spiderman comes to mind. "With great power, comes great responsibility". Bottom line is everyone expects more from Paterno because that is part of the legend. The bigger they are, the bigger they fall.

How difficult would it have been for Paterno to revoke all privileges to PSU property for Sandusky? Most head coaches would distance themselves from an assistant that was even accused of these atrocities. Paterno chose to cover it up. My respect for Paterno would have gone through the roof if he had come out immediately after the accusations and released Sandusky and made a public statement that he was no longer affiliated with PSU. There is a difference between dealing with the transgressions of college kids versus dealing with an assistant coach raping little boys.

I think Paterno just got caught up thinking he ruled that little world and it just caved in on him with the evolution of the media coverage.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Paterno is being talked about more because he is the one that has been put on a pedestal as the moral compass for college football. The quote from Spiderman comes to mind. "With great power, comes great responsibility". Bottom line is everyone expects more from Paterno because that is part of the legend. The bigger they are, the bigger they fall.

How difficult would it have been for Paterno to revoke all privileges to PSU property for Sandusky? Most head coaches would distance themselves from an assistant that was even accused of these atrocities. Paterno chose to cover it up. My respect for Paterno would have gone through the roof if he had come out immediately after the accusations and released Sandusky and made a public statement that he was no longer affiliated with PSU. There is a difference between dealing with the transgressions of college kids versus dealing with an assistant coach raping little boys.

I think Paterno just got caught up thinking he ruled that little world and it just caved in on him with the evolution of the media coverage.

Actually, i believe the media are the ones who built up the idea that Paterno was everything that you just said he was. They built him up into being a "God like" figure, and the moral compass of college football, etc, etc.. and now they are the same ones condemning him.

He is what he is.. a man. A man who's done alot of good for alot of people over his long lifetime, and a man who is still prone to making mistakes and error's in judgement like the rest of us.. and there's no question he made a huge mistake in judgement here.

 

[Bill Wooten]

Actually, i believe the media are the ones who built up the idea that Paterno was everything that you just said he was. They built him up into being a "God like" figure, and the moral compass of college football, etc, etc.. and now they are the same ones condemning him.

He is what he is.. a man. A man who's done alot of good for alot of people over his long lifetime, and a man who is still prone to making mistakes and error's in judgement like the rest of us.. and there's no question he made a huge mistake in judgement here.

You have to admit that he embraced that role and used it as a recruiting advantage. I don't disagree that the media built it, but he took full advantage of that image and perception. That is why we expect more from him in this situation.

I let him pass on the team discipline issues. More than likely, he punished them more than the law would have. However, he is not prepared to deal with the likes of Sandusky.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You have to admit that he embraced that role and used it as a recruiting advantage. I don't disagree that the media built it, but he took full advantage of that image and perception. That is why we expect more from him in this situation.

I let him pass on the team discipline issues. More than likely, he punished them more than the law would have. However, he is not prepared to deal with the likes of Sandusky.

Umm.. yea i really don't know that he embraced the role of being "God like", im sure if that phrase or that garbage was ever brought up to him he didn't act like that was what he was doing or that he should be referred to in such a light. Its just a media created image of the man. Im sure it helped with recruiting, but as you said, he wasn't the one who created that image or would ever think of himself as that type of figure.

Expecting more from him in this situation isn't wrong either.. i agree he should have done more, and i think he knows that.

 

[Rogah]

Whether you have idealistic principles or not.. we all make mistakes now and then. Like i said, and its not ridiculous at all, if we all had our entire life put out into the public and we were all told that if we had ever committed an immoral act, we would lose our job.. very very few of us would still be employed.

You disagree with this?

I am only human. I am flawed. I have made mistakes in my life and I have done things I shouldn't have done.

But I have never once engaged in the coverup of and granted protection to an individual raping children in order to protect my own status.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

But I have never once engaged in the coverup of and granted protection to an individual raping children in order to protect my own status.

Congrats.. you and Joe have something in common then.

 

[Rogah]

Congrats.. you and Joe have something in common then.

Yeah. Sure. And if you believe that then I have some great swampland in Florida you may be interested in.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Yeah. Sure. And if you believe that then I have some great swampland in Florida you may be interested in.

I feel the same about you if you believe Joe was involved in a coverup and "granted protection" to a guy he knew was raping a bunch of little boys. Im sorry, but there's no evidence or information anywhere to form a conclusion like that. Not in the grand jury pages, or anywhere else.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I feel the same about you if you believe Joe was involved in a coverup and "granted protection" to a guy he knew was raping a bunch of little boys. Im sorry, but there's no evidence or information anywhere to form a conclusion like that. Not in the grand jury pages, or anywhere else.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but was it not your personal belief that Paterno told Sandusky in 99' that he would never be the coach at Penn State, due to the allegations in 98'? If so, what logical conclusion can you come to about what happened in 02'?

If it wasn't a cover-up, it was at best a complete lack of empathy for anyone that was ever abused or ever would be abused by Sandusky. Neither one is very endearing.

 

[JBond]

Sandusky's Grandson Comes Forward With Allegations of Sexual Abuse

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/2...s-sexual-abuse/?test=latestnews#ixzz1el1huKJD

 

[JBond]

Do you really believe this is what everybody involved thought was going on?

Please..

That is exactly what happened. They allowed a predator to use the program and the school as a recruiting/hunting tool. To big to fail. Must protect the program and the cash it brings in. They knew what he was doing. A member of the finance department was charged for a reason. Finance, AD, coaches, president. They all knew.

Exactly how many complaints does it take for something to happen? Witnessing a child rape was not enough reason to shut Sandusky down. He was still using school facilities the Sunday the story went public 9 years after he was witnessed raping a child.

The Penn State leaders either did this for the money, or they are just collectively the dumbest bunch of people on the planet, or they are part of the ring.

I do not believe they are dumb. Are they greedy and lack moral character, sure. Dumb, no.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That is exactly what happened. They allowed a predator to use the program and the school as a recruiting/hunting tool. To big to fail. Must protect the program and the cash it brings in. They knew what he was doing. A member of the finance department was charged for a reason. Finance, AD, coaches, president. They all knew.

Exactly how many complaints does it take for something to happen? Witnessing a child rape was not enough reason to shut Sandusky down. He was still using school facilities the Sunday the story went public 9 years after he was witnessed raping a child.

The Penn State leaders either did this for the money, or they are just collectively the dumbest bunch of people on the planet, or they are part of the ring.

I do not believe they are dumb. Are they greedy and lack moral character, sure. Dumb, no.

Im sorry, but if you honestly believe that all these people knew that Sandusky was raping child after child this whole time and they just let him go and let him use their facilities for the purpose of raping kids.. i just feel sorry for you.

 

[JBond]

Im sorry, but if you honestly believe that all these people knew that Sandusky was raping child after child this whole time and they just let him go and let him use their facilities for the purpose of raping kids.. i just feel sorry for you.

You're backing they were morons theory. Oh.OK. that explains you position. After a rape was witnessed and reported to the school, Penn State assumed it was made up and thought it was no big deal for Sandusky to still use the facility with little kids. Got it. He only did it for nine more years. No biggie.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You're backing they were morons theory. Oh.OK. that explains you position. After a rape was witnessed and reported to the school, Penn State assumed it was made up and thought it was no big deal for Sandusky to still use the facility with little kids. Got it. He only did it for nine more years. No biggie.

Sigh.. no. Im not backing a "they are morons" theory. Im saying they were told of one incident, none of the higher ups saw it or knew for a fact it happened. They certainly didn't know the depth or breadth of the problem, meaning they didn't know he was a serial child rapist. If you honestly think they knew that, im sorry.

 

[JBond]

Sigh.. no. Im not backing a "they are morons" theory. Im saying they were told of one incident, none of the higher ups saw it or knew for a fact it happened. They certainly didn't know the depth or breadth of the problem, meaning they didn't know he was a serial child rapist. If you honestly think they knew that, im sorry.

They also failed to report it. How do you forget that fact?

Sigh all you want. The grand jury testimony indicates they did. We can revisit this topic when all the trials begin.

Out of curiosity how many reports should it take for the leaders of Penn State to do something? There are at least two they knew of. Remember the perjury charges? They continued to lie to keep the money train running.