Peter King nuggets on Dak

[Little Jr]

But a 2017 type season should make the franchise think twice about handing a QB who has had two average to below average seasons out of four a $150MM contract. I am not about trying to lower the contract if he plays poorly. I am trying to save myself from having made a significant financial commitment to a QB who shows himself to be more average than great.

That's the point. If Dak goes out and struggles in 2019, the Cowboys should really be thinking long and hard about paying him a ridiculous QB contract. All waiting does is cost you a bit more money and minimizes the downside.

That's another disconnect we have, I don't see the 2017 season the same as you. I also don't see him having another 2017 season, even with some key injuries. There were key injuries last year that he had to deal with and did fine. The only thing that affected him was having above avg #2 wr playing as the #1 wr. Also doesn't help that this offense scheme(hopefully this will change this year) requires a #1 wr.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I didn't ask you who you liked or didn't like or who did this or who did that. Initially you said.......

but there lies the difference, given elite options the other QBs win championships and put up 5000 yard season. dak becomes above average....its what you are able to accomplish if you have those type of options at your disposal.


So I listed other young quarterbacks who have elite options around them who don't have rings. So maybe I'm not understanding you so help me out. What QB's were you referring to that have elite options that win championships?

so as you said....given elite options the other QBs win championships and put up 5000 yard season....

and then you listed a bunch of QBs....and as I mentioned I don't consider Cousin, Mariota or Winston above Dak.

Rogers, Brees, Brady, Roth, Wilson, foles, flacco, eli, some others that had weapons and made it to the superbowl, like Ryan, goff, newton.....

now, as I also mentioned, when Dak does that given the elite weapons he is given, then I will change my mind. when Dak becomes a top 10 passer in the league with the weapons he has, I will change my mind. until then, he has been an average passer, relying on the scheme and a bus driver. nothing wrong with that.

Its not about being naive its just about getting you to make sense of what you're saying. You are contradicting your own statements. All of the smakes no sense to me. So basically your point is that Dak should make Garrett into a great head coach?

See how silly that sounds?

and what I said, which you are twisting, that great coaches, good coaches, make good players into great, great players into elite and average players into good. they need to have the resources to accomplish their vision. Just like any other CEO of a company.....

without those resources, they can't waive a wand to create magic, but good coaches have the ability to take a group of good to great players and win championships or great coaches win multiple championships. the players have to be able to execute the vision. however, just throwing in a bunch of great/elite players together doesn't necessarily add up to championships, if the coach isn't any good or have the right vision. Dann Quinn had the right vision, had the players and took atlanta to the superbowl...his predecessor didn't. pretty much similar resources. parcells a great coach was able to take giants to the superbowl and the jets to AFCG...but in dallas he failed, given he had quincy carter, yet he took a crappy player and was able to get him to 10-6. no playoff wins. not championship.....

so the question is if Garrett is the right coach with the right vision and has the right players? is Dak the right player? or is Dak in the right system surrounded by elite players?

not sure why its hard to understand....you are seemingly twisting to defend Dak in one way or the other and that much is obvious, so no need to twist my words. just come out and say you like Dak, you think he is elite or great and just be done with it.

 

[mmohican29]

Burger King's Power Rankings are out and has Dallas 16th in the NFL.

Delusional. Absolutely delusional.

Here's to the Cowboys cramming an Angry Whopper down his pie hole as well.

Can't wait for this team to shock and awe the league. D is going to be off the chain good this season, and the O will also be formidable.

No way this is a middle of the road roster. Impossible.

 

[Sydla]

What were they calling the Cowboys after 8 games last season? You're a Cowboys fan; you knew that argument wasnt going to fly.

Dallas was never in the situation the Raiders were, who were going through a total culture change, system change and was purging their best talent in order to basically start over.

Even at 3-5, Dallas was never in the same situation the Raiders were. It's preposterous to try to argue similarities.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Nice apostrophe in “chimpanzee’s”. I think I learned when to use an apostrophe and when not to in 3rd grade.


You also don’t know when to use “maybe” and when to add the space to make it “may be”. Remedial.


You’re simply inferior to me. We both know that.

you sound like one of the stars of dumb and dumber or jack ***. did you know English is my 4th language? and I am learning my 5th..... yet your 8th grade mentality needs emoji's to express itself........you are an idiot because you are hanging on to an apostrophe to make yourself feel better...how stupid can you be.... what a loser...I am actually starting to feel sorry for you... maybe I will start a fundme campaign to save you, maybe hire a nanny or care taker of some kind...mentally handicapped should be monitored at all times...for their own good

and I have to apologize as I feel bad for kicking your arse all over the place in the Dak debate. If I knew you were mentally handicapped I would have been nicer....

 

[Sydla]

That's another disconnect we have, I don't see the 2017 season the same as you. I also don't see him having another 2017 season, even with some key injuries. There were key injuries last year that he had to deal with and did fine. The only thing that affected him was having above avg #2 wr playing as the #1 wr. Also doesn't help that this offense scheme(hopefully this will change this year) requires a #1 wr.

You said, and I quote, 2017 "wasn't good". I am not sure what world you live in, but when someone says, a player "wasn't good", that's not really a strong assessment of one's play.

So you are OK with paying a QB who has two "not good" seasons out of four total seasons $150MM?

It doesn't really matter what you or I thinks about how he will play in 2019. My method is simply about letting the chips fall where they fall in 2019 and then making a decision on a long term commitment to Dak.

 

[Floatyworm]

Burger King's Power Rankings are out and has Dallas 16th in the NFL.

Delusional. Absolutely delusional.

Here's to the Cowboys cramming an Angry Whopper down his pie hole as well.

Can't wait for this team to shock and awe the league. D is going to be off the chain good this season, and the O will also be formidable.

No way this is a middle of the road roster. Impossible.

If we just had a QB...

 

[ItzKelz]

Dallas was never in the situation the Raiders were, who were going through a total culture change, system change and was purging their best talent in order to basically start over.

Even at 3-5, Dallas was never in the same situation the Raiders were. It's preposterous to try to argue similarities.

Literally......the only team in the NFL that was called dysfunctional by the media was the Cowboys. Raiders game planned there was to more draft picks.....the Cowboys were called dysfunctional.

 

[Sydla]

Literally......the only team in the NFL that was called dysfunctional by the media was the Cowboys. Raiders game planned there was to more draft picks.....the Cowboys were called dysfunctional.

Oy.

Forget what the media said. Look at the situations. In what world would a team that got off to a bad start be more dysfunctional than a team that was undergoing a total culture change at the hands of an egomaniac in Gruden, who was gutting his front office, who was trading his best players along with alienating his QB?

Come on, I know you are much smarter than that.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

But a 2017 type season should make the franchise think twice about handing a QB who has had two average to below average seasons out of four a $150MM contract. I am not about trying to lower the contract if he plays poorly. I am trying to save myself from having made a significant financial commitment to a QB who shows himself to be more average than great.

That's the point. If Dak goes out and struggles in 2019, the Cowboys should really be thinking long and hard about paying him a ridiculous QB contract. All waiting does is cost you a bit more money and minimizes the downside.

I agree. there is absolutely no reason to hand out a large gauaranteed contract. worse case scenario is we franchise him and pay about $33M. second time around about $36 or so and then try to sign to a contract. he has to have a prove it season to deserve a large contract and if he does and we slightly over pay, its better than over paying, he end up continuing being a middle of the pack QB and we have handicapped our Cap as a result, with no hopes for any significant improvement or superbowl

 

[Bullflop]

Obviously, there are two ways to feel and respond to Dak as your QB. Should we play the odds and accept him as extremely difficult to improve upon or should we insist upon struggling along for who knows how many years to find one better? As the English cricket fans might say, it's a sticky wicket! As much as I'm tempted to go either way, it's the first option that appeals to me the most. Of course, I could be wrong, though but I've gotta be me.

 

[Sydla]

Obviously, there are two ways to feel and respond to Dak as your QB. Should we play the odds and accept him as extremely difficult to improve upon or should we insist upon struggling along for who knows how many years to find one better? As the English cricket fans might say, it's a sticky wicket!

I reject the premise that it would be nearly impossible to improve upon Dak and that it's a given we'd struggle for years to find someone better (or even as good).

 

[Bullflop]

I reject the premise that it would be nearly impossible to improve upon Dak and that it's a given we'd struggle for years to find someone better (or even as good).

Understood and I'm certain you're not the only one here! I'm tempted to venture into that realm myself, so I feel your pain.

Nevertheless, Jerry leaves no alternative. Like it or not, we'll be obliged to see how it goes with Dak and hope for the best.

 

[Sydla]

Understood and I'm certain you're not the only one here! I'm tempted to venture into that realm myself, so I feel your pain.

Nevertheless, Jerry leaves no alternative. Like it or not, we'll be obliged to see how it goes with Dak and hope for the best.

In Jerry's world, you are probably right. He sees no alternative despite the fact he could just let Dak play out his last year of his rookie contract and then go from there.

 

[ItzKelz]

Oy.

Forget what the media said. Look at the situations. In what world would a team that got off to a bad start be more dysfunctional than a team that was undergoing a total culture change at the hands of an egomaniac in Gruden, who was gutting his front office, who was trading his best players along with alienating his QB?

Come on, I know you are much smarter than that.

Football fans knew the Raiders were a mess. Non-Football and the entire world knew that the Cowboys were dysfunctional because it was reported every single night for 8 weeks......UNTIL we got the WR that the Raiders could do nothing with and Dak became the best QB in the NFC the second half of the season.

 

[G2]

It's really a simple concept.

You don't pay a non-elite player an elite contract simply because in a few years his contract won't be as high on the positional pecking order. That's how teams end up with bad contracts and cap issues. Because even if Dak's $30MM a year ends up only being the 10th highest AAV in 3 years, he's still eating up roughly 15% of the team's cap space most likely. And if he's just 10-12ish ranked QB, that's not a great thing.

And you especially don't do it when you don't have to, like the Cowboys don't have to do anything with Dak right now. This rush to get what some of you think will be a "bargain" contract doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

You can repeat the same thing over and over, but it's not going to convince me that Prescott "somehow doesn't deserve" market value. That's how it works specifically when a staff decides on a franchise QB.
Even if you disagree, no one cares. The market is the market and it actually makes more sense to sign him before other, older QBs' contracts are due soon which will, guess what? Yep! Raise the market even higher. Then you'll REALLY be dissatisfied.

 

[ghst187]

Nailed it........

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...ing/?cid=fmiatwking#10-things-i-think-i-think

Too close to call right now, but Prescott has an edge … 3 of 20 (15 percent): Jameis Winston (1-2015), Marcus Mariota (2-2015), Mitchell Trubisky (2-2017).

Clearly better than Prescott … 3 of 20 (15 percent): Cam Newton (1-2011), Andrew Luck (1-2012), Patrick Mahomes (10-2017).

Better than Prescott, though with an injury asterisk … 1 of 20 (5 percent): Carson Wentz (2-2016).

Too close to call right now, but they look better than Prescott to me … 2 of 20 (10 percent):Jared Goff (1-2016), Deshaun Watson (12-2017).
.

So yes I disagree on some of them. Dak is flat out better and more reliable than Winston, Mariota, and Trib.
I’m not sure Wentz ever reaches his potential due to injuries and general choking.
I would NOT trade Dak for Cam, no way. Taking Dak over Cam right now. I think Watson is the most exciting player in football but I wouldn’t trade Dak for him. I don’t think Watson will ever be consistent enough to win big.
I would say Goff, Mayfield, Luck, Mahomes are better than Dak.
But I don’t believe that Goff would be better than Dak if Goff played for Garrett.
All that to say, Dak ain’t perfect but he’s pretty darned good and I agree with King that you can win big with him and he’s an excellent representative and leader. He’s also still young and hopefully ascending.

 

[G2]

That's exactly what the media wants you to believe...yet..the majority damn well know he's a fraud....and doesn't deserve this contract.

Go away, no one takes your nonsense posts serious.

 

[Sydla]

You can repeat the same thing over and over, but it's not going to convince me that Prescott "somehow doesn't deserve" market value. That's how it works specifically when a staff decides on a franchise QB.
Even if you disagree, no one cares. The market is the market and it actually makes more sense to sign him before other, older QBs' contracts are due soon which will, guess what? Yep! Raise the market even higher. Then you'll REALLY be dissatisfied.

Not quite. And why do you keep saying that I said he doesn't deserve market value? I never said that. I said I'd wait a year to determine what his market value is. You may think that's splitting hairs, but it's not.

Waiting a year does raise the price.............. if he plays well. If he goes out and repeats the 2017 season, for example, guess what? You probably shouldn't be paying him $150MM over 5 years to begin with.

And that's the point. I am perfectly content paying him more next year knowing he had a great year and is trending the right way. There's really only one way you come out of this looking bad here...................... you pay him a huge contract now and he goes out and plays like an average QB in 2019.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

When you pay a QB 30 million a year, you shouldn't have to also pay a WR 16 million and a RB another 16. That QB shouldn't need it. He should simply make stars of the next batch of skill players because he should be great. He's getting paid like it.

Prescott needs it and more.

What an absolute disgrace that contract will be.

Most expensive "Bus Driver" ever!!!!