PFF ranks Dak's accuracy

[ABQCOWBOY]

So you think Dak's accuracy hasn't been a problem over the last three seasons, but you do see it as a problem going forward, if I understand correctly.

LOL..... No, I definitely see it as being a problem over the past few years. Again, we can not run certain types of Offensive sets, which limit us. It allows defenses to take advantage of certain tendencies and that has hurt us. I think you only need to look back at the Rams game to see how this has impacted us. Dak's accuracy has effected us but it hasn't been the only thing that has effected us. There are several reasons for this, IMO. This is simply one of them.

 

[InTheZone]

We have a healthy O-Line this year and Daks accuracy will suddenly look better.

He was ranked #10 in time to throw, does he need to be #1 to look better?

 

[HungryLion]

Outside of any missed opportunities do to "bad" passes, the impact is simple...Schematically, there's an unblocked defender in the box and holistically, Dallas keeps games close because they aren't explosive early.

The physical accuracy issue for Dak is overblown though. The bigger issue is not seeing down the field. I put a fair amount of that on him, though the scheme certainly hasn't helped.

This is a fair assessment.

 

[percyhoward]

LOL..... No, I definitely see it as being a problem over the past few years.

Over the last three years, this offense ranks 6th in yards per drive, and is tied for 6th in TD per drive.

 

[Future]

You're saying Dak becomes more accurate later in games?

....no?

 

[percyhoward]

This is a fair assessment.

I can buy that Dak takes more risks late in games. I find it very difficult to believe his accuracy (or vision) improves late in games.

 

[Blackrain]

Oline improves with a year of weight training for Williams and return of Big Fred . Chemistry improves with Gallup and Cooper as they have full off season to train with Dak

Jerry wins another gamble and Kellen Moore improves offense so Dak and Coop don't have to draw it up in the dirt . The 3 wild misses a game are cleaned up and we add another TD a game . This quiets the mob
We make it to NFC championship game and are out coached

Long story short Dak becomes a better passer with help from Kitna on his mechanics , Moore on a modern scheme better protection from the Oline and Off season practice with who he will be throwing to .

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Over the last three years, this offense ranks 6th in yards per drive, and is tied for 6th in TD per drive.

What is the point you are getting at? Is it our ability to score? If this is where we are going, we were 22nd in the league in scoring, both overall and PPG, In 2017 we were 14th in Total Pts and PPG. The year before that, we were 5th in PPG and Total Pts. Clearly, we are going backwards as an Offense. Now, there are a lot of things that contribute to that but the one thing that is clear is that we are not getting better in this area, as a team. We are getting much worse, year over year. This, to me, lends itself to the proposition that we are not doing a good enough job of forcing the opposition to respect our entire offense and forcing the defense to defend the entire field. They have figured out what we can and can not do well. In order to change the paradigm, we must improve on certain aspects of our game and that improvement must come in our ability to throw the ball. Now this is tricky because we are not a passing team, per say. We are a running team and that's fine, I am actually good with that but what does that mean? It means that we must be able to take advantage of the opportunities a strong run game affords you. If you can't do that, then teams have no fear of giving up something because they know you can't take advantage of it on a consistent basis. In order to really be good, we must be able to make these teams pay for making a choice defensively. If you want to play 8 and 9 man fronts, OK, but you are going to pay for it. That's where we need to be as an Offense and we are not. We are not, in part, because we fail to be consistent in our passing game. Plays that should be 6 are often first downs because of accuracy. Plays that should be six are 3 and outs because we flat miss. These things happen to us and that needs to be corrected if we are ever going to challenge for a championship. JMO

 

[Vtwin]

By the same token said great WR was floundering in OAK w a 25m per year QB and was insanely good here upon arrival with no real practice time.
Is Dak simply that much more accurate than Carr???

Cooper out-performed guys who have been bad their entire career. Deonte Thompson (career high is 27 receptions), Allen Hurns(5 TD and 74 receptions in 2 seasons prior to arrival does not spell WR1) and Tavon Austin(13 recepts in 2017 and now 8 in 2018). It wasn't a shock to anyone that the Cowboys had a bottom 5 WR corps to open the season except perhaps themselves.
And those guys are all likely gone for 2019.
Gallup is a keeper but he was a rookie who had a very poor catch rate at under 50%.

The red zone stuff isn't complicated. The OL wasn't as good and we had no real red zone targets. The sad attempts to Rico detailed just how sorely they lacked a Red zone guy.
Once they got Cooper that improved as the TE were all of a sudden open.Plenty of analysis showed no one feared DAL outside single covering those guys and thus DAL felt compelled to trade for a guy that could beat single coverage in Cooper.

Arguing Dak was holding back the offense is simply brain dead. The offense added ONE legit WR and blossomed. The Giants with Odell sucked. WRs don't make plays by themserles.
The Dak/Cooper combo was what was effective.
NEITHER guy was effective last season prior to the trade.

Listen. I never said that Dak was THE problem. I agree that the FO did him no favors this season. I wouldn't expect him to be at the top of the league in production because of that. That doesn't mean though that he is absolved of all responsibility. There were plays too be made, in the redzone and outside of the redzone that were missed and many of those were due to inaccurate passes or just not being seen. I can think of two plays off the top of my head to Rico that really should have resulted in TD's. The pass to him in the redzone that was high and hard when Rico had the defender boxed out. A better more experienced player might have been able to bring that in but it was a bad pass that made the play more difficult than it needed to be. The other when Dak had Rico wide open down the seam and Dak waited and waited before letting it go. The pass was completed for a nice gain but had he gotten that ball out quicker it pretty easily goes for a TD. I could come up with many more similar examples if I went back and reviewed the games. The great catch by Beasley in the endzone was another play that was made much harder than it should of been.

Obviously the addition of a top tier WR helped free up the other guys but it's not true that they were useless before his arrival. Hurns and Beasly both were driven to comment publicly when the narrative became the WRs sucked so bad that Dak couldn't do anything because of them. The problems I and others have with Dak played a big role in that narrative and in these guys feeling like they had to defend themselves. That doesn't mean I think we were fine at WR before Cooper. It does mean that that things weren't as bad as you suggest and a better QB could have made some of the plays that were there to be made.

Once again, I am not saying Dak is THE problem. It is clear though, that at least to this point, he is a guy who needs a lot of help. It is unlikely that he will ever get to play behind the quality of o-line that he had his rookie season. He has had an elite running back by his side which would be a luxury to many if not most QBs. He has a top tier WR who is known as one of the best route runners in the league with great rac ability. Yet the team is closer to the bottom of the league than the top in offense.

To ignore that and to ignore all those long mid- game stretches of offensive futility only focusing on the end of the game heroics while blaming everybody but Dak is braindead.

Very good athlete, tough and determined, great attitude, average at best passer.

Will win a lot of games against the regular season schedule with a very good team around him. Will have problems against the best teams and coaching the deeper he gets in the playoffs.

 

[percyhoward]

Clearly, we are going backwards as an offense.

This isn't a picture of an offense that's been going backwards over the last three years. It's an offense that made the mistake of going into 2018 without a legitimate WR1.

NFL ranks
yards per drive
2016 5th
2017 10th
2018 games 1-7 22nd
2018 games 8-18 7th

TD per drive
2016 4th
2017 6th
2018 games 1-7 24th
2018 games 8-18 10th

3rd down conversion %, pass
2016 11th
2017 13th
2018 games 1-7 32nd
2018 games 8-18 9th

In 2018, we scored less because we couldn't score in the red zone. That wasn't because of Dak's accuracy, or lack thereof. After the arrival of Cooper, we were tied with the Chiefs for most TD scored from outside the red zone. We were top 7 in the red zone each of the previous two seasons with the same QB. The red zone struggles in 2018 were about the absence of Frederick and of our biggest red zone receiving threats the last two years (Witten and Dez).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This isn't a picture of an offense that's been going backwards over the last three years. It's an offense that made the mistake of going into 2018 without a legitimate WR1.

NFL ranks
yards per drive
2016 5th
2017 10th
2018 games 1-7 22nd
2018 games 8-18 7th

TD per drive
2016 4th
2017 6th
2018 games 1-7 24th
2018 games 8-18 10th

3rd down conversion %, pass
2016 11th
2017 13th
2018 games 1-7 32nd
2018 games 8-18 9th

In 2018, we scored less because we couldn't score in the red zone. That wasn't because of Dak's accuracy, or lack thereof. After the arrival of Cooper, we were tied with the Chiefs for most TD scored from outside the red zone. We were top 7 in the red zone each of the previous two seasons with the same QB. The red zone struggles in 2018 were about the absence of Frederick and of our biggest red zone receiving threats the last two years (Witten and Dez).

No, I disagree. It absolutely is a picture of an Offense that is going backwards. We are talking about actual points scored and PPG, over the last 3 years, we have gone from 5 to 14 to 22. That's backwards. Now, you can say it was because of this or that or what have you, but the fact is that we are going backwards. Going forward, we don't know who will be in Dallas and who will not be in Dallas. We don't know if Zeke resigns, we don't know if Cooper resigns, we don't know if we improve at WR or TE, we don't even know what happens with Dak. Those things are beyond our control and the job in front of us, regardless of what excuse, is to improve the Offense. Improving our ability to make teams pay via the pass is a big step in that direction. Running game is not the problem with this team. The area we need to improve is in the passing game. That's not all on Dak, that's on the passing game in its entirety but one of the big things that needs to improve is our ability to incorporate a passing attack that allows us to hit receivers on the move and create additional yard and scoring opportunities, as well as hitting wide open receivers down the field. We simply have to be better at that if we want to avoid things like we saw against the Rams.

That's just my opinion.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

From top 5 to "not too shabby at 11'th" is pretty shabby. If you live in a shack it's fine. If you're used to caviar it ain't

but the dak loving crowd makes it sound like this OL was trash and the sole cause of dak's problems....11th is not bad. its better than 21 other teams. but I understand Dak needs a top 5 OL, top #1 WR, top TE, top RB to succeed.

 

[northerncowboynation]

but the dak loving crowd makes it sound like this OL was trash and the sole cause of dak's problems....11th is not bad. its better than 21 other teams. but I understand Dak needs a top 5 OL, top #1 WR, top TE, top RB to succeed.

About the same as Romo needed since you mentioned loving crowds. Remember when the O-line was top 5 and he had, Dezzie, Witt and Murray. Almost made it to the NFCC. Yeah Romo had a healthy Tyron, Leary/Collins, Fred, Zach and Free. We called Free the weakest link in 2014 . If only that was the case in 2018 and going forward. I guess an almost is an almost no matter how you slice it

 

[percyhoward]

No, I disagree. It absolutely is a picture of an Offense that is going backwards. We are talking about actual points scored and PPG, over the last 3 years, we have gone from 5 to 14 to 22. That's backwards. Now, you can say it was because of this or that or what have you, but the fact is that we are going backwards.

I'm not just telling you something, I'm showing you why what I'm saying is true. I'll slow it down and do this one step at a time.

The numbers below appear to show an offense in regression.

NFL ranks
yards per drive
2016 5th
2017 10th
2018 11th

TD per drive
2016 4th
2017 6th
2018 15th

3rd down conversion %, pass
2016 11th
2017 13th
2018 21st

Do you see these rankings as the result of what you believe to be defenses reacting to the QB's accuracy issues?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

About the same as Romo needed since you mentioned loving crowds. Remember when the O-line was top 5 and he had, Dezzie, Witt and Murray. Almost made it to the NFCC. Yeah Romo had a healthy Tyron, Leary/Collins, Fred, Zach and Free. We called Free the weakest link in 2014 . If only that was the case in 2018 and going forward. I guess an almost is an almost no matter how you slice it

why mention Romo? oh, I forgot, its the go to move for Dak lovers when there is nothing else...

 

[northerncowboynation]

why mention Romo? oh, I forgot, its the go to move for Dak lovers when there is nothing else...

actually I am a Dak supporter. I was a Romo supporter too back in the day. I think it's a fair comparison, Cowboys team led by Romo 2014 and Cowboys lead by Dak 2016. Hence my post about O-lines. You're right the 2018 O-line was shabby in comparison to both. same crappy OC. Both had dezzie and Witt. Same outcome too. Man you must hate that

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'm not just telling you something, I'm showing you why what I'm saying is true. I'll slow it down and do this one step at a time.

The numbers below appear to show an offense in regression.

NFL ranks
yards per drive
2016 5th
2017 10th
2018 11th

TD per drive
2016 4th
2017 6th
2018 15th

3rd down conversion %, pass
2016 11th
2017 13th
2018 21st

Do you see these rankings as the result of what you believe to be defenses reacting to the QB's accuracy issues?

I think that I've already explained that I believe Defenses are playing us for our tendencies, one of which is our failure to capitalize on certain types of routes or schemes. It's clear as day, to me, that teams are doing this, or trying to anyway.

So yes, I think that it is, at least partly, the result of Defenses playing us for tendencies but more to the point, I believe it's capabilities. You see, I believe that we are calling games according to what Dak likes to do and what he is good at. Not necessarily what the opposing defenses are giving us.

But I see that you appear to be getting on edge. I appreciate that you might be frustrated over this but I think we both know that I do not require you to "slow it down". I get where you are going but I just don't value that data as indicator of success.

 

[percyhoward]

I think that I've already explained that I believe Defenses are playing us for our tendencies, one of which is our failure to capitalize on certain types of routes or schemes. It's clear as day, to me, that teams are doing this, or trying to anyway.

So yes, I think that it is, at least partly, the result of Defenses playing us for tendencies but more to the point, I believe it's capabilities. You see, I believe that we are calling games according to what Dak likes to do and what he is good at. Not necessarily what the opposing defenses are giving us.

But I see that you appear to be getting on edge. I appreciate that you might be frustrated over this but I think we both know that I do not require you to "slow it down". I get where you are going but I just don't value that data as indicator of success.

I'm pretty calm, but I needed to slow it down because I was assuming too much to be obvious in my explanations.

Take a look at the 2016 offense vs the post-trade 2018 offense.

Offense
2016 vs 2018 (games 8-18)

Yards per drive
2016 36.3
2018 36.3

TOP per drive
2016 3:02
2018 3:13

Plays per drive
2016 6.2
2018 6.9

3rd down conversions
2016 43.3%
2018 45.2%

Would you agree that, between the 20's at least, the 2018 offense after the trade for Cooper was at least on par with the 2016 offense?

 

[Melonfeud]

We all know that there are situation where it's best to put the ball on the WR. We also know that there are situations which require the pass to be lead. Situation that require a ball to be thrown in a very specific location in order to minimize the chance of a TO. We watch Dak and at least to me, I see it all the time, he is not accurate. I mean, he does show really good accuracy in certain situations and then, you watch him and you just can't figure out why he is not accurate in other situations, usually requiring a much lessor level of complexity. We see it week after week and I have no idea why. He had the same problem in College. It's really weird to me but I can't say that I would call him accurate. He is efficient and that's tricky because that can be confused with accurate but they are not the same thing. He does make passes that are caught and that are safe, his ability to protect the ball via the pass is excellent. He just doesn't put the ball in the best location to maximize opportunities, a lot of the time. That's just my opinion.

Man,I believe what you
( & myself, amongst many others) are seeing is the overthinking of the throw on that particular play, as of late it's almost as if( the marshmallow pass to the F.B. in the Indy game being #1 to leap into ones thoughts) he's throwing to his 8 year old niece or something, as if not wanting it to slide thru her hands ,bip her in the nose,she has a squalling crying fit & the family get together picnic at the park becomes embroiled in disarray,,, although, I will take that as an marked improvement over the prior " shoulda' coulda' woulda' " bizarrely wild type of dump off passes to the #21 we were all previously enjoying witnessing

* dude just needs the conviction ( upstairs, in his wheelhouse) of consistency in his passing velocity for a given distance

 

[jay94]

Super high completion rating doesn't mean a lot to me when you expect to get a first down on a gimme pass to the running back which usually ends up getting 5-6 yards. Dak is average or slightly above, hope that isn't the same for next year, but it is what he is, anyone saying anything different are the same evaluators that have hyped this team up for far to long.