PFT: Cowboys’ coaches reportedly furious Rolando McClain skipped OTAs

[Stash]

We really gonna do this thing again where I offer an opinion and you tell me how you think I should or should not be offering opinions?

Sorry to tell you, but that's not what you're doing here. At all. You're getting up on some misguided high horse trying to tell everyone else what to think.

I'm giving my take, stash. Just like you. If posters want to say some of us just don't care enough about winning, it's a good thing to explain where we're coming from, because that assumption is obviously untrue.

And I don't assume my opinion is always the right one. I'm happy to change or modify my position. I suppose most of us are. It's just only going to happen if someone suggests a convincing argument and not because of some emotional pleading about how far the team has fallen. Pleading that's based on something other than the rate at which we actually win football games.

You should take the time to re-read what it is that you're actually posting vs what you're claiming to be posting. The difference between the two is stark.

Expressing an opinion is one thing, trying to tell someone else what theirs should be is quite another.

 

[Idgit]

Sorry to tell you, but that's not what you're doing here. At all. You're getting up on some misguided high horse trying to tell everyone else what to think.

You should take the time to re-read what it is that you're actually posting vs what you're claiming to be posting. The difference between the two is stark.

Expressing an opinion is one thing, trying to tell someone else what theirs should be is quite another.

We're not going to have this conversation again, stash. There's no difference between me expressing an opinion and you expressing yours. I'm not telling anybody what their opinion ought to be. I'm explaining what I see going on in these threads and why I think people should respond differently than they sometimes do.

If you have a counter opinion, great. Express it. If you don't, then just say so and we can move on. But crying 'bully' when you can't defend tactics on their merit isn't a viable counterpoint. Especially when it's obvious that nobody's even remotely bullying anybody.

 

[Stash]

We're not going to have this conversation again, stash. There's no difference between me expressing an opinion and you expressing yours. I'm not telling anybody what their opinion ought to be.

Really? I saw plenty of you telling other people what did and didn't constitute the use of the term 'laughingstock', as if it was yours to give or take away. That goes far beyond 'expressing an opinion'. You can try to fool yourself but you're not fooling me. And not likely anyone else either.

I'm explaining what I see going on in these threads and why I think people should respond differently than they sometimes do.

And there you overstep your boundaries. Express your own opinions and disagree with others. When you try to tell others how they should think or what constitutes a valid opinion, you cross a line.

If you have a counter opinion, great. Express it. If you don't, then just say so and we can move on. But crying 'bully' when you can't defend tactics on their merit isn't a viable counterpoint. Especially when it's obvious that nobody's even remotely bullying anybody.

You get to tell yourself anything you want, you might even believe it. What you don't get to do is to get anyone else to believe it.

You try to tell other people what warrants feeling the way they do or if their opinions are worthy or valid and you don't have that right.

 

[Idgit]

Really? I saw plenty of you telling other people what did and didn't constitute the use of the term 'laughingstock', as if it was yours to give or take away. That goes far beyond 'expressing an opinion'. You can try to fool yourself but you're not fooling me. And not likely anyone else either.

And there you overstep your boundaries. Express your own opinions and disagree with others. When you try to tell others how they should think or what constitutes a valid opinion, you cross a line.

You get to tell yourself anything you want, you might even believe it. What you don't get to do is to get anyone else to believe it.

You try to tell other people what warrants feeling the way they do or if their opinions are worthy or valid and you don't have that right.

Regardless, I don't agree with any of your mischaracterizations here, but this thread isn't about your interpretation of my posting style. I'm going to tell myself you don't have a viable counter argument re: what we're actually talking about, or that you don't want the actual debate. So we can all get back to the thread topic.

I think we even probably agree here that the team's making a mistake in not cutting McClain. And that--if they're keeping him because of Jerry--it's symptomatic of the problems he creates for his coaches when he meddles with the roster. GM or no, it hurts the team and undermines his own coach.

 

[Stash]

Regardless, I don't agree with any of your mischaracterizations here, but this thread isn't about your interpretation of my posting style. I'm going to tell myself you don't have a viable counter argument re: what we're actually talking about, or that you don't want the actual debate. So we can all get back to the thread topic.

Feel free to interpret things as you see fit. You usually do. That's why we repeatedly come back to the same subject. Just don't try to label my opinion as the 'mischaracterization' of events. If you'd like to open that subject up for a forum poll, I'd be happy to let the masses decide for themselves.

I think we even probably agree here that the team's making a mistake in not cutting McClain. And that--if they're keeping him because of Jerry--it's symptomatic of the problems he creates for his coaches when he meddles with the roster. GM or no, it hurts the team and undermines his own coach.

On that, we agree completely.

My own position right now is that I'm trying to cut them a bit of slack, hopeful that they are simply waiting to reconvene, weighing their options, and soon will make the right decision and rid themselves of a player who doesn't truly want to play and would rather waste his talents.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Garrett has plenty of say, just look who they drafted first round.

McClain is poison anyway you cut it, cut him the moment the suspension is lifted.

 

[jnday]

That was an opinion, actually. Then he became our starter, signed an extension, and left in FA to compete for a starting job with an AFC playoff contender, if I remember correctly. And I stand by my contention that if you find Costa-grade players in FA, fans ought to appreciate that and not complain about it. Even while looking for an upgrade. Hayden's another more recent player who fits in this category. That dude wasn't a quality starter, but he cost nothing, came in and worked hard and played hurt. I don't bag on those guys. Not when there are guys like McClain to hate on who are unwilling to put in effort despite all the talent in the world.

In any event, that post wasn't about 'facts' really anyway. It was a response to visionary's passive shot at the rules around here.

I know, I know. I was just trying to get a rise out of you. Costa did stink though and him signing a second contract didn't prove he was starter material to nobody but Dallas. Denver figured out in a hurry that he didn't belong in the league.

 

[Idgit]

I know, I know. I was just trying to get a rise out of you. Costa did stink though and him signing a second contract didn't prove he was starter material to nobody but Dallas. Denver figured out in a hurry that he didn't belong in the league.

It was with the Colts. And a two-year deal above league minimum, to compete for that starting job. He retired because of injury. And I never said he was a great player. I said he was treated unfairly by our fans here for not being better than he was. But you probably knew all that, too, and are just getting a rise out of me.

 

[cowboyblue22]

if the boss is not furious over this then it really don't matter how furious the coaches are.

 

[Alexander]

I think JJ is fixated on what RM brought to the table in 2014 and think he can provide that same energy and level of play again; however, RM has shown the team what he is all about, and it is not about playing football full time. The last few offseasons have clearly demonstrated that. Time to let him go.

It seems that he fixates a lot on 2014. Like he thinks that lightning in a bottle will repeat itself.

 

[Alexander]

I said he was treated unfairly by our fans here for not being better than he was.

The fans? We don't know these players for anything until our own organization starts touting them for being better than they are and we sit there and watch them look terrible on Sundays. Don't blame the fans.

Blame the GM who said "we like what we have in Costa" for quite a while.

 

[Idgit]

The fans? We don't know these players for anything until our own organization starts touting them for being better than they are and we sit there and watch them look terrible on Sundays. Don't blame the fans.

Blame the GM who said "we like what we have in Costa" for quite a while.

Our fans are awful. But that's not really my point. My point with Costa--or any undrafted player who makes the roster against long odds, improves with time, and eventually earns starting snaps, a long term contract that pays more than the vet minimum, and sticks around the league long enough to earn a pension--is that it's silly to get mad at a long shot like that for not being any better than he actually is. These are guys who by and large work hard to beat the odds. If the organization can't find a better starter than Phil Costa somewhere in the draft or in VFA, that's on them and not on Phil Costa. Undrafted free agents that become starters or key role players are valuable players in this league, but for whatever reason fans like to **** on them for not being better when the only reason they stick around in the first place is they're determined to stick despite having limited physical abilities in most cases. Meanwhile, higher draft picks playing at a similar level sometimes get passes because they have more perceived value.

I do believe the staff liked Phil Costa for what he was. Just like I think the Colts did when they signed him in FA. The league is full of guys like that.

 

[Alexander]

Our fans are awful. But that's not really my point.

Kind of looks like it is sometimes, like you feel it is super duper important to chastise others for violating your idea of the fan code.

My point with Costa--or any undrafted player who makes the roster against long odds, improves with time, and eventually earns starting snaps, a long term contract that pays more than the vet minimum, and sticks around the league long enough to earn a pension--is that it's silly to get mad at a long shot like that for not being any better than he actually is. These are guys who by and large work hard to beat the odds.

You seem to think that people should view it personally as apparently you do.

I root for the laundry and the sack of flesh that is in it eventually needs to earn the accolades.

It is nice and fun to see a success story, but I am not going to take a personal interest on how they beat long odds.

There are tons of Phil Costa-like successes every year around the league. They just do not get sold to the fan base anything close to what Jones does.

Costa was not a success story. He was an average talent that should never have "earned" starting snaps or a long term contract, at least not on a team that wanted to win much. But yet, he was marketed by the snake oil salesman and it got quite a few people around here ignoring the fact that he was not much better than Clay Shiver.

If the organization can't find a better starter than Phil Costa somewhere in the draft or in VFA, that's on them and not on Phil Costa. Undrafted free agents that become starters or key role players are valuable players in this league, but for whatever reason fans like to **** on them for not being better when the only reason they stick around in the first place is they're determined to stick despite having limited physical abilities in most cases. Meanwhile, higher draft picks playing at a similar level sometimes get passes because they have more perceived value.

I do agree completely about the organization being at fault for not finding someone better.

But the thing is the organization fails to do that and then sells that mediocre player as better and people eat it up and then become fans of the player. That is a perspective issue. Bad thing is, those that fall for the sell job don't even know they got conned.

There were quite a few that defended his honor like he was some fair maiden around here, which I am sure you know all about that.

 

[Idgit]

Kind of looks like it is sometimes, like you feel it is super duper important to chastise others for violating your idea of the fan code.

You seem to think that people should view it personally as apparently you do.

I root for the laundry and the sack of flesh that is in it eventually needs to earn the accolades.

It is nice and fun to see a success story, but I am not going to take a personal interest on how they beat long odds.

There are tons of Phil Costa-like successes every year around the league. They just do not get sold to the fan base anything close to what Jones does.

Costa was not a success story. He was an average talent that should never have "earned" starting snaps or a long term contract, at least not on a team that wanted to win much. But yet, he was marketed by the snake oil salesman and it got quite a few people around here ignoring the fact that he was not much better than Clay Shiver.

I do agree completely about the organization being at fault for not finding someone better.

But the thing is the organization fails to do that and then sells that mediocre player as better and people eat it up and then become fans of the player. That is a perspective issue. Bad thing is, those that fall for the sell job don't even know they got conned.

There were quite a few that defended his honor like he was some fair maiden around here, which I am sure you know all about that.

Lots of 'kind of looks like' and 'seems to you's' in here. But if our fans want to ***** and moan, they really don't have the right to not be called out on the *****ing and moaning. It's not a fan code so much as it's a code for being a grown up human.

This isn't a Costa thread, so I won't get caught up in the fact that he earned the multi-year deal to compete for starting snaps by more than one decent team. It wasn't Jerry pumping him that had anything to do with the debate, people just didn't like him on his own merits. But tying it back to the thread, give me the Phil Costa of linebackers right now over McClain and I'd take him in a heartbeat. I prefer guys who want to scrap and want to be here over guys who clearly don't, no matter how talented they may be. If they turn out to be legitimate playmakers, that's great, but a 53 man roster needs young developing players, too.