News: PFT: Ezekiel Elliott has privately said that he's planning a training-camp holdout

[gjkoeppen]

On an individual basis, yes. What I pay into unemployment insurance added in with what the employer pays in would pay for ME if I were to collect. But considering the state of california probably has 10 million or more people paying in, plus all those employers, into one big fund... THAT pays for those that are colecting unemployment... no the state.

I know how PMI works, but if you lose your house, who gets paid off? the bank, not the individual who lost the house. Which wa smy point... avg joe is out, bank is just fine. Plus the bank will turn around and sell the house again.They dont actally get paid off.. but you get the point. Also, I never had PMI and I never put 20% down, nor had a higher interest rate.

It depends when you got your mortgage, but for the last 30 or more years either PMI was part of your mortgage payment or you paid a higher interest rate that actually covered you PMI payment or you put 20% down. I called a cousin who just retired who was a loan officer for 38 years.and said that was the only way a bank did it. He did say that for a while some years back some credit unions didn't require PMI if the borrower had an extremely high credit rating, but other than that, everyone paid in some way for PMI unless they put 20% down.
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[Reid1boys]

It depends when you got your mortgage, but for the last 30 or more years either PMI was part of your mortgage payment or you paid a higher interest rate that actually covered you PMI payment or you put 20% down. I called a cousin who just retired who was a loan officer for 38 years.and said that was the only way a bank did it. He did say that for a while some years back some credit unions didn't require PMI if the borrower had an extremely high credit rating, but other than that, everyone paid in some way for PMI unless they put 20% down.
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well take this as a lesson to slow down before making proclamations as fact when in fact, you are incorrect. A VA backed loan for veterans requires no PMI. I myself have been trying to be a little more careful about doing the same.

 

[gjkoeppen]

well take this as a lesson to slow down before making proclamations as fact when in fact, you are incorrect. A VA backed loan for veterans requires no PMI. I myself have been trying to be a little more careful about doing the same.

I had a VA loan back in the mid 70's and I can't remember if there was a PMI on it. I do now wonder why my cousin didn't mention that too. But the light bulb just went on. The fed gov. guarantees VA loans and that in and of itself is just like PMI. The only difference is we got those by serving and not by paying money.
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[Reid1boys]

I had a VA loan back in the mid 70's and I can't remember if there was a PMI on it. I do now wonder why my cousin didn't mention that too. But the light bulb just went on. The fed gov. guarantees VA loans and that in and of itself is just like PMI. The only difference is we got those by serving and not by paying money.
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The va loan along with the gi bill was the two greatest benefits to serving after getting out.

 

[gjkoeppen]

The va loan along with the gi bill was the two greatest benefits to serving after getting out.

I full hardheartedly agree!!!!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you want to compare contracts signed in different years as legit comparison, go ahead. It may make sense to you but those of us that see it's trying to add apples and oranges as just that. While you're at it why not compare linemen contracts to QB's after all you seem to think comparing other positions to RB is legit comparison.
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I didn't start that, you would need to address that comment to the poster who did. I tried to explain to you that it does matter, in terms of context. Clearly you either choose to ignore that or are unwilling to accept the validity of the point. Who exactly are "those of us"? I see you, I don't see a lot of people lining up behind you.

 

[DuncanIso]

Gurley and Bell are no longer on their rookie contracts. Do you see the problem with comparing two players not on rookie contracts to one that is?: OF COURSE they make more, THEY'RE NOT ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS but they were once. Another part of the negotiating is Elliott's REPEATED off season troubles and the next suspension will be 10 games or an entire season it's not a question of if but when that suspension will come.
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It's not a problem to compare TGurley and Bell's new contracts.

Those two contracts are the reason Zeke wants a new deal. 8)

Zeke could opt to start camp, but then hold out during the regular season. There is a risk in going to camp. He could get injured. Then he loses a lot of his leverage.

Whatever it takes to get his new deal.

Zeke's new deal will be 4 yr / 60-70 mil rang. 25 Mil signing bonus. 37 mil GTD [2019 and 2020 base added to NEW signing bonus]

Then 8.5 mil base for 2019 - 2022.

Pay Zeke. He's worth it.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I didn't start that, you would need to address that comment to the poster who did. I tried to explain to you that it does matter, in terms of context. Clearly you either choose to ignore that or are unwilling to accept the validity of the point. Who exactly are "those of us"? I see you, I don't see a lot of people lining up behind you.

How can anyone think rookie contracts signed in different years with different rookie cap allocations in each year can be compared to each other with any meaning? That's like comparing the 1st QB drafted with the 1st running back in the same draft. The rookie wage pool is a slot system with the 1st pick setting the mark and then as each player drafted after that than make s a little less. Trying to compare players contract drafted in different drafts with different rookie pools and different starting points for the 1st player drafted is foolishness.
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[gjkoeppen]

It's not a problem to compare TGurley and Bell's new contracts.

Those two contracts are the reason Zeke wants a new deal. 8)

Zeke could opt to start camp, but then hold out during the regular season. There is a risk in going to camp. He could get injured. Then he loses a lot of his leverage.

Whatever it takes to get his new deal.

Zeke's new deal will be 4 yr / 60-70 mil rang. 25 Mil signing bonus. 37 mil GTD [2019 and 2020 base added to NEW signing bonus]

Then 8.5 mil base for 2019 - 2022.

Pay Zeke. He's worth it.

First if Elliott does as you suggest and reports to camp and then sits out he'll lose 2019 as an accrued season so he then would be a restricted free agent if the Cowboys choose not to exercise his 5th year option. Being an restricted free agent keeps contracts amounts down so he won't get that huge contract he's looking for and it's much easier for the Cowboys to resign him again. If a team does offer a contract the Cowboys don't want to match, the Cowboys will get at a minimum a 2nd draft pick in 2020 draft. Now pointed out by a couple former GM's that if Elliott sits out and shows his selfishness he also has his history of troubles in the off seasons and the next will bring either a 10 game or an entire season suspension and teams will be somewhat leery about allocating huge bucks on a player that very well may be gone from a suspension. Now so far there has only been some sportswriters who reported RUMORS that Elliott plans to sit out and there is nothing that quotes Elliott himself saying this. I just laugh when I read users here stating that Elliott will get this or that amount with this or that in signing bonus and guaranteed money. Let me know how the actual negotiations are going because you must be in on them to be able to state that his contract will the this or that.
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[OmerV]

So private not even Zeke himself heard it

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

How can anyone think rookie contracts signed in different years with different rookie cap allocations in each year can be compared to each other with any meaning? That's like comparing the 1st QB drafted with the 1st running back in the same draft. The rookie wage pool is a slot system with the 1st pick setting the mark and then as each player drafted after that than make s a little less. Trying to compare players contract drafted in different drafts with different rookie pools and different starting points for the 1st player drafted is foolishness.
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First of all, had you read the thread, you would see that I did not start that comparison. That was another poster, but That's fine. In this case, I believe there is something to gain from this comparison. Each of the three players discussed were the 4th player taken in consecutive years and Two of them actually played the same position, Elliott and Fournette. You can look at each deal and compare them year to year. I dont know why that is not relevant but what ever.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Gonna be fun watching all of the posters who threw so much hate the last few days try and spin this when he shows up to camp...

“League” sources

 

[gjkoeppen]

First of all, had you read the thread, you would see that I did not start that comparison. That was another poster, but That's fine. In this case, I believe there is something to gain from this comparison. Each of the three players discussed were the 4th player taken in consecutive years and Two of them actually played the same position, Elliott and Fournette. You can look at each deal and compare them year to year. I dont know why that is not relevant but what ever.

The reason they're not relevant is the basis they were signed. Three different rookie pools with three different 1st pick contract amounts which all the rest cascade down from. It's only truly meaningful if the starting points of comparison are equal, same draft using the same rookie pool and even that it's fair because the lower a player is drafted the less they get. It's really tough to compare players on many levels. RB's and rushing. Elliott had the best line in the league in 2016 so that was an advantage the other backs didn't have. The teams they played, they all didn't play the same teams and even if they played some of the same teams they were possibly without the same players on defense because of injuries making it easier to gain yards or gain less yards because the defenses were at full strength. There is one thing that the 2 other players used as examples didn't have that Elliott does have. The off season troubles and the next trouble he has will get him either a 10 game or and entire season suspension.
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[ABQCOWBOY]

The reason they're not relevant is the basis they were signed. Three different rookie pools with three different 1st pick contract amounts which all the rest cascade down from. It's only truly meaningful if the starting points of comparison are equal, same draft using the same rookie pool and even that it's fair because the lower a player is drafted the less they get. It's really tough to compare players on many levels. RB's and rushing. Elliott had the best line in the league in 2016 so that was an advantage the other backs didn't have. The teams they played, they all didn't play the same teams and even if they played some of the same teams they were possibly without the same players on defense because of injuries making it easier to gain yards or gain less yards because the defenses were at full strength. There is one thing that the 2 other players used as examples didn't have that Elliott does have. The off season troubles and the next trouble he has will get him either a 10 game or and entire season suspension.
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Are you actually reading what you are posting here? First of all, sounds to me as if you should be addressing this to the poster who started the comparisons but you won't do that right?

It's not that tough to look at each players contract and look at percentages and structure etc. So while it's not exactly the same, in terms of how much each got, you can clearly see that Zeke enjoyed a higher percentage of salary increase, then did each of his counter parts. Of course, Zeke made more then the 4th player taken in the year preceding him and less then the 4th player taken that followed him but you can do the math and see that from a percentage of increase, he enjoyed a larger percentage. I don't understand why you are arguing this. Do you not agree?

 

[gjkoeppen]

Are you actually reading what you are posting here? First of all, sounds to me as if you should be addressing this to the poster who started the comparisons but you won't do that right?

It's not that tough to look at each players contract and look at percentages and structure etc. So while it's not exactly the same, in terms of how much each got, you can clearly see that Zeke enjoyed a higher percentage of salary increase, then did each of his counter parts. Of course, Zeke made more then the 4th player taken in the year preceding him and less then the 4th player taken that followed him but you can do the math and see that from a percentage of increase, he enjoyed a larger percentage. I don't understand why you are arguing this. Do you not agree?

Again you have to take into consideration MUCH more that simply working those numbers. Every player contract and each year of a contract is reflected by what each team believes what money will be available due to increase in saliary cap,what their total cap cost will be each year, players who's contracts will be up and they either plan to resign or let go, how much dead money they have to absorb. So some teams will be able to have a higher 2nd year or 3rd year because that's what the long range cap allows for that team. There's much more to signing players that just worrying about just that one player. So if Elliott's rose more in any years it's because the Cowboys after taking everything into consideration felt they could do it. At the time the contract was signed Elliott hadn't played a single snap in the NFL just like all rookies. Some rookies on other teams got contracts where the team may not choose to go through all of the shuffling of contracts the Cowboys do every year and play it closer to the vest. But the percentage increase only matters to those who think each contract is in it's own little test tube and has no baring on the other contracts or future caps.
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[ABQCOWBOY]

Again you have to take into consideration MUCH more that simply working those numbers. Every player contract and each year of a contract is reflected by what each team believes what money will be available due to increase in saliary cap,what their total cap cost will be each year, players who's contracts will be up and they either plan to resign or let go, how much dead money they have to absorb. So some teams will be able to have a higher 2nd year or 3rd year because that's what the long range cap allows for that team. There's much more to signing players that just worrying about just that one player. So if Elliott's rose more in any years it's because the Cowboys after taking everything into consideration felt they could do it. At the time the contract was signed Elliott hadn't played a single snap in the NFL just like all rookies. Some rookies on other teams got contracts where the team may not choose to go through all of the shuffling of contracts the Cowboys do every year and play it closer to the vest. But the percentage increase only matters to those who think each contract is in it's own little test tube and has no baring on the other contracts or future caps.
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You speak as if we don't understand how this works. The simple fact of the matter is that wage increases in cap, year to year, are negotiated based on revenue. I mean, everybody knows that. However, it is still accurate that Zeke received a greater percentage then the player selected a year before him and the player selected the year after. Further, the terms of these deals are not set. They can structured according to how the team wants them to be structured. In the case of Zeke, he got the majority of his money up front. The team didn't have to do that for him. All of this supports the original statement. Zeke has been treated more then fairly. His situation is nothing like Bell's. To compare Zeke and his contract demands, to Bell and his is just wrong. The organization did not and has not treated Zeke like Bell.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You speak as if we don't understand how this works. The simple fact of the matter is that wage increases in cap, year to year, are negotiated based on revenue. I mean, everybody knows that. However, it is still accurate that Zeke received a greater percentage then the player selected a year before him and the player selected the year after. Further, the terms of these deals are not set. They can structured according to how the team wants them to be structured. In the case of Zeke, he got the majority of his money up front. The team didn't have to do that for him. All of this supports the original statement. Zeke has been treated more then fairly. His situation is nothing like Bell's. To compare Zeke and his contract demands, to Bell and his is just wrong. The organization did not and has not treated Zeke like Bell.

You still don't get it. EVERY player's contract is done so EVERY year of it is based on what EACH team has available AFTER taking into CONSIDERATION ALL other contracts and estimated cap space for EACH year of that contract. This is why trying to compare contracts year by year of players on different teams, whether you are comparing dollar amounts nor percentages it's adding apples and oranges. No two teams have the same dollar amount available after all contracts are accounted for and the dead money each team has.

I'll tell you what, go show all your capologist brilliance to all the GM's and see how many offer you the job as their capologist. You show them that comparing individual years of two players on different teams is showing some real useful info and see if they say, gee we never thought being a capologist could be so easy. Heck we'll never have to take all the other contracts and cap space and dead money into account ever again.
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[ABQCOWBOY]

You still don't get it. EVERY player's contract is done so EVERY year of it is based on what EACH team has available AFTER taking into CONSIDERATION ALL other contracts and estimated cap space for EACH year of that contract. This is why trying to compare contracts year by year of players on different teams, whether you are comparing dollar amounts nor percentages it's adding apples and oranges. No two teams have the same dollar amount available after all contracts are accounted for and the dead money each team has.

I'll tell you what, go show all your capologist brilliance to all the GM's and see how many offer you the job as their capologist. You show them that comparing individual years of two players on different teams is showing some real useful info and see if they say, gee we never thought being a capologist could be so easy. Heck we'll never have to take all the other contracts and cap space and dead money into account ever again.
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I see, you are yet another one of those guys who need to classify everybody as, not smart enough to understand. OK, have a good day.

 

[Tussinman]

All of this supports the original statement. Zeke has been treated more then fairly. His situation is nothing like Bell's. To compare Zeke and his contract demands, to Bell and his is just wrong. The organization did not and has not treated Zeke like Bell.

Heard a few fans and media compare this to Bell and it's not even close.

Zeke's cash signing bonus before ever having an NFL practice let alone game was higher than Bells first 6 NFL years salary combined. Despite Zeke's deal being 3 years old he's still top 3 at his position for total guaranteed and fully guaranteed money (if anything that's a good deal).

He's in a good situation (chance to become a free agent at 25 already making 35 million guaranteed with it being more likely that he makes more than that since an extension will most likely happen next offseason when he's only 24). Holdouts are rare for players in good situations

 

[DuncanIso]

Heard a few fans and media compare this to Bell and it's not even close.

Zeke's cash signing bonus before ever having an NFL practice let alone game was higher than Bells first 6 NFL years salary combined. Despite Zeke's deal being 3 years old he's still top 3 at his position for total guaranteed and fully guaranteed money (if anything that's a good deal).

He's in a good situation (chance to become a free agent at 25 already making 35 million guaranteed with it being more likely that he makes more than that since an extension will most likely happen next offseason when he's only 24). Holdouts are rare for players in good situations

Zeke ranks 10th in average RB salaries for 2019.

His deal is half of the Gurley/Bell contracts.

Zeke isn't stupid.

Pay Zeke.