PFT: Fins reportedly negotiating with Jake Long

[Deep_Freeze]

They don't want to, but they won't have a choice. They won't be in the league yet.

The player's association still won't like that at all. Only reason why the rookie scale works in the NBA is cause of guaranteed contracts for them. You put a rookie scale on NFL with the high risk for injury that they have, and there will be alot of upset players in the union that will probably strike.

The players do have a choice, they aren't that blind. That would help the teams and owners, not the players at all. If you don't pay them money upfront, and can cut them at any moment, you are asking for a strike. NFL careers are short enough.....there are people now that don't want to pay TNew cause he is going to be 30, and he is one of the top corners in the game.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I don't really think its a passionate issue for the players that 5 or 6 rookies a year automatically get paid more than 95% of the veterans who have proven themselves and paid their dues. I think they'll be very open to sacrificing that issue if the owners will give a concession in another area.

Its not only the lack of trades, I think it effects the way teams draft at the top. Its not really about who is the best player, but who's the safest. If you pay some guy $29 million in guaranteed money and he bombs it could set the franchise back three years on the cap. You pretty much have to keep him for at least 4-5 years before it's even feasible to release him because of the cap implications. If I'm Miami I probably take Jake Long too .. he may never be Jonathon Ogden, but at least you figure at the very worst he could be a Jon Runyan 10 year starter at right tackle. And any team that drafts a QB #1 has a pair of brass ones given their bust rates. He better be Troy Aikman/Peyton Manning caliber no brainer blue chipper.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I don't really think its a passionate issue for the players that 5 or 6 rookies a year automatically get paid more than 95% of the veterans who have proven themselves and paid their dues. I think they'll be very open to sacrificing that issue if the owners will give a concession in another area.

Its not only the lack of trades, I think it effects the way teams draft at the top. Its not really about who is the best player, but who's the safest. If you pay some guy $29 million in guaranteed money and he bombs it could set the franchise back three years. If I'm Miami I probably take Jake Long too .. he may never be Jonathon Ogden, but at least you figure at the very worst he could be a Jon Runyan 10 year starter at right tackle.

Well, I know what you are saying, you do have to give something to get something. You take all that money away from rookies (the rookie scale would probably affect alot more than 5 or 6 players), you will have to give the players something in return. Those top players also have a high probability of being high profile players in the union really quick.

A 23 year old rookie signs a contract like an NBA one, 3 years with a team option for the 4th. Since most players are around 22-23 when they get in the NFL, adding those 4 years, you are looking at a 27 year old before he can actually get paid the money he deserves. Point blank, a 27 year old is worth more in the NBA than the NFL. Not to even bring up that he can be cut at any time during those 4 years.

Basically the players are getting the shaft. Of course the owners would love it, as for fans, all we can do is sit up and watch, cause we have no power regardless.....not like we aren't going to watch or go to the game. But fans cheering for this are also cheering against the players being compensated for their work. If a owner doesn't want to pay, trade out of the pick, don't whine that its too much money.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Actually, I could see the player's union on board with a rookie pay scale because in a league with hard cap it''s a zero sum game ... if one rookie is getting a 20% slice of the cap pizza, that means that the other players on that team, mostly veterans who have paid their dues, are having to split up the remaining 80% into 51 smaller slices. The players union might not initiate the change, but I think they'll gladly comprimise that issue if the owners will conceed in another area. Its one thing in the NBA where a LeBron can take a franchise from league laughing stock to the NBA Finals in two years, but but one rookie just doesn't make that kind of impact in the NFL.

Top 5 picks shouldn't be a punishment. It not only prohibits trades, it also changes how teams draft ... you dont draft the best player, you draft the safest. Because if a Top 5 pick busts its almost catastrophic on your cap. If I'm the Dolphins I probably take Jake Long too ... not because I think he''s the best player in the draft, but I think even if he doesn't turn out to be Tony Bosseli at LT he could at least be a Jon Runyan 12 year starter at RT. I think McFadden is by far the best player in the draft ... but pay a RB $30 million guaranteed with the abuse they take and their short career lifespans? You'd have to be insane. And any team that takes a QB #1 has got a pair of brass ones given their bust rate. The only way I even think of it is if there is a Troy Aikman/Peyton Manning once every 10 years caliber super blue chipper there.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Actually, I could see the player's union on board with a rookie pay scale because in a league with hard cap it''s a zero sum game ... if one rookie is getting a 20% slice of the cap pizza, that means that the other players on that team, mostly veterans who have paid their dues, are having to split up the remaining 80% into 51 smaller slices. The players union might not initiate the change, but I think they'll gladly comprimise that issue if the owners will conceed in another area. Its one thing in the NBA where one LeBron can turn a team from league wide laughing stock to being in the NBA Finals in two years, but one rookie just doesn't make that kind of impact in the NFL.

Top 5 picks shouldn't be a punishment. It not only prohibits trades, it also changes how teams draft ... you dont draft the best player, you draft the safest. Because if a Top 5 pick busts its almost catastrophic on your cap. If I'm the Dolphins I probably take Jake Long too ... not because I think he''s the best player in the draft, but I think even if he doesn't turn out to be Tony Bosseli at LT he could at least be a Jon Runyan 12 year starter at RT. I think McFadden is by far the best player in the draft ... but pay a RB $30 million guaranteed with the abuse they take and their short career lifespans? You'd have to be insane. And any team that takes a QB #1 has got a pair of brass ones given their bust rate. The only way I even think of it is if there is a Troy Aikman/Peyton Manning once every 10 years caliber super blue chipper there.

I guess my issue is this, and players will talk about it also. If you scale down the money for rookies, it will affect all rookie salaries, not just the top ones. If the top ones get paid less, the scale will also go down for the rest of them. But the deal is this, you are giving them no security. They sign this rookie scaled contract, with less money, and can be cut at any time in a sport that is very high risk in the first place.

As a player, it is always said that if you are a multi-sport star, you should choose anything other than football. With that deal, it would make it even worse for prospective football players, and heck, would make you be Charlie Ward, Drew Henson, or whoever tried something else first before making football your last chance at pro sports.

Signing a limited money contract, with the possiblity of being able to be cut tomorrow, is just a raw deal for the players. I'm sure there is a happy medium, but if you limit how much the guy can make, and he can be cut at anytime, that is a bad situation for anyone. Which is why they have guaranteed contracts in the NBA.

 

[Holloway805]

I know one thing -- NFL owners are a smart bunch - except for Danny boy- so let them them throw millions at the rookies. Why not? I for one think the top 5 picks deserve what they are getting. No one is forcing the owner to pick'em or sign'em.

 

[5mics]

FINS NEGOTIATING WITH JAKE LONG

Posted by Mike Florio on April 9, 2008, 4:17 p.m.

Even though the Miami Dolphins reportedly have settled on the player whom they regard as the top guy available in this year’s draft pool, there’s no guarantee that the guy at the top of the board is the player they’ll draft.

Because they hold the first overall pick, the Fins have the ability to negotiate with as many of the players as they want, and can sign one of them even before the draft begins on April 26.

According to the Miami Herald, the Dolphins are negotiating with Michigan tackle Jake Long.

But that hardly means that Jake Long will be the pick. The Fins surely will use their ability to leverage the top players (such as Jake Long, Chris Long, and Glenn Dorsey), using the promise of being the first overall pick as a carrot to get them to sign a contract, and to avoid risking a slide.

The fact that the Dolphins are talking to Long highlights the potential conflict of interest for his agent, Tom Condon.

Condon also represents Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan. If/when the Fins negotiate with Condon about Ryan, they’ll be talking to the same person about whether a deal will be done with either of his two clients.

It’s actually a multi-layered conflict of interest for Condon. If the Fins are willing to make Ryan the No. 1 overall pick with a deal equal to or less than the contract paid a year ago to Raiders quarterback JaMarcus Russell, Ryan needs to ask himself whether, in the end, he’ll make as much or more if he’s not the No. 1 overall pick.

At best, Ryan would otherwise be No. 3. If the Falcons don’t select him with the third overall pick, he could fall to No. 5 (Chiefs), No. 6 (Jets), or No. 8 (Ravens). If he gets past No. 8, he likely will make it into the teens.

So with the money dropping astronomically once a player falls beyond the top three or four picks, Ryan would be wise to get the best deal done at No. 1.

But, for Condon, doing a “bad” deal at No. 1 would open him up to relentless criticism from other agents, who’d use the contract aggressively in recruiting future players whom Condon has targeted.

Last year, there were rumors that the Raiders had made an offer at No. 1 to quarterback Brady Quinn, also a Condon client. In hindsight, Quinn surely would have preferred to take whatever he could have gotten in Oakland — he eventually was picked at No. 22, and he’s now stuck on the bench in Cleveland with a contract that won’t pay him big money unless he plays.

So we expect the Dolphins to negotiate with multiple players over the next two weeks. And we’re hoping that the players realize the stakes, and that they recognize that their agents could be in an awkward situation, if the Fins put a firm offer on the table that is good for the player, but bad for the agent.

Let's help Tuna out Jerry. Trade our 2 #1s (2008) and our 1st in 2009 for the 'Fins #1 overall (2008) and their 2nd rounder in 2009......

 

[Doomsday101]

Why is Al Davis the villian? In 2006 the Texans gave Mario Williams about 27 mill guaranteed. Alex Smith got 24 mill in 2005. Eli Manning got about 21 mill in 2004.

Those contracts are going up pretty much at the same rate as salaries across the league.

I expect the first guy out this year is going to get 34 mill or so

You are right it is not just all Davis but I don't see the owners continuing to bend over and take for a guy who has proved nothing at this level. I think the Owners are smart enough to realize this is getting out of control. I have fewer issues with vet players who have proven themselves but when I see a rookie making more coming out of the draft than established players I think that if foolish and I don't think the Owners will continue doing this. I'll go out on a limb right now and say Miami will get a deal done with a player before the draft and select him with their 1st pick and do so for less than what Russell got last season

 

[Doomsday101]

Screw himself?

I think a player is far more "screwing himself" if he doesn't hold out for the maximum amount he can get. This is a tough game and a serious injury can mean the guy won't see another contract.

Going back through the next years draft and falling out of day1 would be a big loss of money.

 

[Boom]

I guess my issue is this, and players will talk about it also. If you scale down the money for rookies, it will affect all rookie salaries, not just the top ones. If the top ones get paid less, the scale will also go down for the rest of them. But the deal is this, you are giving them no security. They sign this rookie scaled contract, with less money, and can be cut at any time in a sport that is very high risk in the first place.

Not to mention that the contract length will be shorter as well. They are not going to agree to a rookie scale and still let them get jammed into 5 year contracts at that rate.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

DeepFreeze, that money that the top five picks now get isn't going to vanish into thin air with some kind of rookie scale. It's going to go to the vets that are already in the league. That's why they'll do it -- same as in the NBA. It's not to anyone's advantage -- current players or management -- for a guy who's never played to get such a big percentage of a team's payroll. Everyone who has a say would rather it go to a vet who has proven himself.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

DeepFreeze, that money that the top five picks now get isn't going to vanish into thin air with some kind of rookie scale. It's going to go to the vets that are already in the league. That's why they'll do it -- same as in the NBA. It's not to anyone's advantage -- current players or management -- for a guy who's never played to get such a big percentage of a team's payroll. Everyone who has a say would rather it go to a vet who has proven himself.

Well I do understand what you are saying, there are owners right now complaining that they make less profit than they pay their highest paid player on their team. This situation might the source of where the owners and players disagree, how this money from a rookie scale will be redistributed to vets that can get cut at any moment.

I mean, what difference does it make if its redistributed if the players never see the money.....cause as vets, their contracts aren't guaranteed, so that money will go right back into the owner's pocket when they are cut. In the NBA, those vets know for sure they are getting the money, in the NFL, there is no guarantee at all they will see it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Did anyone else hear Adam Schefter last night?

He was discussing the Fins negotiationg with Jake Long and that he wouldn't be the only prospect they would negotiate with. He then mentioned they could do it to get the contract in place before the draft for their own pick or "to trade the pick to another team". Not sure why he said that since everyone is saying there is no interest in any team trading for the top pick.

Probably nothing to it, but it was an interesting comment.

 

[AbeBeta]

Going back through the next years draft and falling out of day1 would be a big loss of money.

Right.

A team that has the #1 overall pick is going to lose that guy over 4-5 mill.

That's a nice story but it is an empty threat that no one believes.

 

[Doomsday101]

Right.

A team that has the #1 overall pick is going to lose that guy over 4-5 mill.

That's a nice story but it is an empty threat that no one believes.

Same for the player what he is going to lose 4, 5 mill or more because he has to re-enter the draft after missing an entire season? His stock is not worth much. It is not a 1 way street and no because a player wants something does not mean he will get it.

 

[AbeBeta]

Same for the player what he is going to lose 4, 5 mill or more because he has to re-enter the draft after missing an entire season? His stock is not worth much. It is not a 1 way street and no because a player wants something does not mean he will get it.

Again, you keep failing to see that the teams ALWAYS fold. Why? Because that 4-5 mill just isn't worth losing the pick. That's leverage. The player knows the team is bluffing because when it comes down to it, they aren't throwing the pick away so that they can save a few mill. It just isn't worth it.

But hey don't believe me - just look at every rookie holdout over the past 10 years.

 

[Doomsday101]

Again, you keep failing to see that the teams ALWAYS fold. Why? Because that 4-5 mill just isn't worth losing the pick. That's leverage. The player knows the team is bluffing because when it comes down to it, they aren't throwing the pick away so that they can save a few mill. It just isn't worth it.

But hey don't believe me - just look at every rookie holdout over the past 10 years.

I guess we will see because I don't think Miami is going to fork over the same or more than what Russell got last season. I’m not talking peanut but I think teams are going to start taking a different attitude with these high prices going out to unproven rookies. You’re risking that kind of cash and putting your team is a bad cap position for a player you don’t know if he will make it or not and as high as the bust rate is it is not worth it to dish out that kind of money for unproven players.

 

[miamicowboy21]

Good luck convincing this years #1 pick he isn't worth the same as last year's #1 pick. Not a fight I would want to partake in, personally.

Bingo, this is just miami trying to lowball and see who will take the cheapest deal. 3 years ago Ronnie Brown held out 3 weeks for his 20 million. Nice try fat tuna and Ireland, but it won't work.

 

[AbeBeta]

I guess we will see because I don't think Miami is going to fork over the same or more than what Russell got last season. I’m not talking peanut but I think teams are going to start taking a different attitude with these high prices going out to unproven rookies. You’re risking that kind of cash and putting your team is a bad cap position for a player you don’t know if he will make it or not and as high as the bust rate is it is not worth it to dish out that kind of money for unproven players.

Except that 1) "bad cap position" is pretty much a sports radio myth as the structure of the rookie contracts and the rookie cap prevent deals that are any more damaging to the cap than UFA contracts. 2) The player you take is the MOST proven of all the college players out there. You want to throw your money at "proven" players? Good luck with your team of 30+ year olds. 3) All drafted players are risks -- #1 overall is the least risky player on the board. 4) the increases in contracts for #1 simply match the increase in contracts for other players, these aren't skyrocketing more quickly than other contracts.

 

[AbeBeta]

Bingo, this is just miami trying to lowball and see who will take the cheapest deal. 3 years ago Ronnie Brown held out 3 weeks for his 20 million. Nice try fat tuna and Ireland, but it won't work.

The Texans did this a couple years ago. Wow, they really got a bargain, giving Mario Williams ONLY 27 mill.