PFT: King throws water on the Scouting Combine

[Rampage]

King is a moron sometimes. Usually when his hands are moving over a keyboard. Not only do the Combines matter because it gives teams access to these guys to learn their character it also lets you observe who the teams around you in the Draft are watching.

I guess Pro Days don't matter either.

I think he's more or less downplaying the workouts in underarmor more so than the things you mentioned. they should atleast have these guys do these workouts in pads.

 

[burmafrd]

Ware was a late 1st rd pick before the combine because he played small school and it was thought he would be more likely taken to be a OLB for a 3-4 team which meant a position change. I remember watching that combine and he absolutely tore it up. There is no doubt that he jumped at least 10 spots at least on the combine.

 

[burmafrd]

As regards the combine, there is too much emphasis on 40 times and things like that. The Interviews are much more important- what is inside the head is a lot more important.

 

[trickblue]

Obviously the combine, in it's entirety, is a coverup to the one the that really DOES matter...

The Wonderlic...

 

[HoleInTheRoof]

I dont think he's saying they dont matter, I think he's saying its silly when teams drastically alter their board just because of the combine, and NOT the weeks/months of film scouting they've done.

+1.

If you have 2-3 years of game film on a player, yet you allow one week of drills to dramatically alter your opinion on said player, then you're a fool.

 

[Big Dakota]

I dont think he's saying they dont matter, I think he's saying its silly when teams drastically alter their board just because of the combine, and NOT the weeks/months of film scouting they've done.

And I agree.

Gee, makes sense when you STOP and THINK about what was said.

 

[adbutcher]

You are clueless and talking about stuff you clearly have no idea about.

Ware impressed in college being named to the Hendricks watch list. He shined against FSU in a game against top level competition. Like every player there was some schmo knocking him or offering negatives. That had nothing to do with real NFL scouts thoughts on him.

He shined again in the Senior Bowl. And proved he could play OLB.... That was what cemented him in round 1.

He was not reliant on the combine at all.

Just because some average joe or wanna be scout didn't know of him doesn't mean real scouts didn't. He played OLB for the first time at the Senior Bowl and looked quite good. Any team wanting a 3-4 OLB was going to value him highly.

The bottom line is Demarcus Ware proved ON THE FIELD he could play football and the underwear Olympics just validated his athleticism as seen ON TAPE.

He also had a great game against LSU, that doesn't go unnoticed by those who are in the know.

 

[Big Dakota]

You are clueless and talking about stuff you clearly have no idea about.

Ware impressed in college being named to the Hendricks watch list. He shined against FSU in a game against top level competition. Like every player there was some schmo knocking him or offering negatives. That had nothing to do with real NFL scouts thoughts on him.

He shined again in the Senior Bowl. And proved he could play OLB.... That was what cemented him in round 1.

He was not reliant on the combine at all.

Just because some average joe or wanna be scout didn't know of him doesn't mean real scouts didn't. He played OLB for the first time at the Senior Bowl and looked quite good. Any team wanting a 3-4 OLB was going to value him highly.

The bottom line is Demarcus Ware proved ON THE FIELD he could play football and the underwear Olympics just validated his athleticism as seen ON TAPE.

Nice beat down:clubbed:

 

[dallasfaniac]

I didn't have a problem with what King or the anonymous source said, I disagreed with Florio's stance (who was quoting King, who was quoting anon) that the combine is pointless and irrelevant for evaluating NFL talent.

 

[masomenos]

A lot of the combine is simply testing athleticism. While a blazing fast 40 time does not have many direct applications to the game of football, it does act as a comparable measure of athletic ability. Think back to when you played high school or college ball and I'll bet that the kids who were the fastest at their position were generally also the most athletic in other regards such as jumping, acceleration, quickness, etc. The saying goes, "You can't teach speed" but really it extends to the idea that you can't teach a guy to be a good athlete, he just is or isn't.

Is athleticism the only thing that matters when in comes to NFL success? Absolutely not, but a lot of times it is the only thing the separates a Miles Austin from a Sam Hurd. Athleticism matters, that's why they do the testing. Having your head on straight also matters and that's why they do one on one interviews.

The combine is not pointless, the 40 yard dash is not pointless, the broad jump is not pointless, etc. The different elements of pre-draft evaluation have to be looked at holistically.

 

[InmanRoshi]

On the other side of the coin you have Ditka's first draft class with the Saints when he said he was throwing all the scouting measurements in the trash too and was just going to go by what he saw from a player's college film. He reached for Chris Naeole with a Top 10 pick. Then took a 6'2" 260 lbs defensive tackle Jared Tomich in the 2nd round because he was a 2 year All American beast at Nebraska. Then took Troy Smith , an undersized, slow RB who was the first to ever rush for back to back 2,000 yard seasons in college at Iowa State. Then took Heisman Trophy Winner Danny "noodle arm" Wuerffel next, even though most people thought he would go undrafted.

 

[dallasfaniac]

I continually bring up David Ball because he's at the polar opposite of most players in that he had a huge career (broke several Jerry Rice records) and followed it up with a great showing amongst his peers at the East/West shring game, yet a pulled hammy before combine and pro-day 4.6 40 dropped him from a potential 3rd rounder to undrafted. Last I heard, he's in the CFL so it looks like the drop was for good reason.

 

[DFWJC]

Without the combine, Ware would've been a low first rounder or 2nd rounder. After the combine, he was a top 15 pick. After the facts, he probably should've been number 1.

Just saying.

I think Ware was a 1st rounder regardless...but maybe not the 11th pick.

This does raise a question: If the 2005 Draft was held today, who would be the top pick (knowing what we now know)?
I say it would be Aaron Rodgers, then Ware....for starting now and going forward. Either way, Ware was a steal at #11.

 

[21Savage]

You are clueless and talking about stuff you clearly have no idea about.

Ware impressed in college being named to the Hendricks watch list. He shined against FSU in a game against top level competition. Like every player there was some schmo knocking him or offering negatives. That had nothing to do with real NFL scouts thoughts on him.

He shined again in the Senior Bowl. And proved he could play OLB.... That was what cemented him in round 1.

He was not reliant on the combine at all.

Just because some average joe or wanna be scout didn't know of him doesn't mean real scouts didn't. He played OLB for the first time at the Senior Bowl and looked quite good. Any team wanting a 3-4 OLB was going to value him highly.

The bottom line is Demarcus Ware proved ON THE FIELD he could play football and the underwear Olympics just validated his athleticism as seen ON TAPE.

I guess I'm clueless as you were in the mind of the real scouts and not susceptible to the information that was made available to us average joes around the time of the draft .

Go ahead and riddle me some more predraft jester.

 

[21Savage]

Any one thinking these stats didn't add to Ware's rise up boards after the combine is kidding themselves.

Pre-draft measureables Ht Wt 40 yard 10-yd split 20-yd split 20ss 3-cone Vert Broad BP Wonderlic 6-4 * 251 * 4.56 * 1.62 * 2.70 * 4.07 * 6.83 * 38½ * 10'07" * 27 * 20 *

My point is, btw, that the combine is not useless. The 40 yard dashes and a few other things are important as well. We have 3 CBs that run in the 4.3s and it was obvious in our matchups against Philly.

Ware obviously was a great player in college. But that alone would've got him drafted in the lower rounds. Him proving himself to be an athletic freak at the combine gave him the jolt to move up the boards.

 

[Randy White]

King is a moron sometimes. Usually when his hands are moving over a keyboard. Not only do the Combines matter because it gives teams access to these guys to learn their character it also lets you observe who the teams around you in the Draft are watching.

I guess Pro Days don't matter either.

Yea, but that's not the point of this piece. The point is that people shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that performing in the underwear olympics will necessarily translate to the field. I fell for that for the first time ever last year when I was dying for the Cowboys to draft Brian Robiskie exclusively due to how he performed at the combines ( even though I saw him in OSU and wasn't really overly impressed ), ignoring all the past years when I told myself not to ever do that.

This column mentions your point when the scouts says that the combines are good for medical reasons, off the field background, plus you can see and talk to most of the players on a personal basis.

It's just warning people not to fall in love with the 40 yards dash..

 

[Yakuza Rich]

King is a moron sometimes. Usually when his hands are moving over a keyboard. Not only do the Combines matter because it gives teams access to these guys to learn their character it also lets you observe who the teams around you in the Draft are watching.

I guess Pro Days don't matter either.

That and it can raise some red flags or confirm positive grades on a player.

Former Cowboys LB Keith Adams was a stud in college. But, get him at the combine and you see a guy that was very undersized and wasn't that explosive.

Had the NFL just gone on things that only concerned football, Adams would've been a first round pick.

Same with Mike Williams, Charlie Ward, Troy Smith, etc.

The Combine greatly increases the chances that teams will get things right over teams getting it wrong. For every Mike Mamula there are probably 3 Troy Smith's.




YAKUZA

 

[Eskimo]

The thing the Combine allows you to do is look at all the main players available at once and compare them to one another. It is sometimes hard to project how the plays a guy can make in college can project to the Pro game and eveveryone will concede that it is far from a science.

I would look at it as a chance to see if some red flags come up in terms of lacking the basic physical skills needed to play the game. I wouldn't suggest anyone get upgraded too much based on workout numbers if ability (not always production, but ability) does not show up on tape.

 

[theogt]

I hope that wasn't one of our scouts they were quoting.

 

[Kangaroo]

The 40 is over rated to a degree but it still gives you a measure of his athleticism. What people fell to look at after the 40 is things like 3 cone drill etc that shows you how quick they can be in and out of breaks etc

What happens to often and it happens I think more to the media is they get over excited about reporting 40 times and ignore the shuttle and 3 cone drill

It is a tool nothing more it does not paint the entire picture of the player