PFT: King throws water on the Scouting Combine

[Alexander]

I hope that wasn't one of our scouts they were quoting.

You would honestly want one of our scouts to overvalue the Combine? Are you serious?

King never said it was worthless, just that the information gleaned is often overrated.

I believe firmly what this decision maker was quoted. It also helps if people had read the actual article and not the sensationalized PFT writeup (which also avoids saying it is completely without value):

If I told you who this speaker was, you'd all say, "Whoa, we have to listen to this guy. We respect him.'' Just take my word for it. He's legit.

I enjoy the combine. It gives me the chance to meet a lot of players I'll be covering in the future and to see people in the NFL and get team-by-team updates. It's valuable. But it's way overrated in terms of deciding who should get picked where in the draft, and it always will be.

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It is a tool. It is information. But there is no reason why a player should be elevated for something not football related. They are not running the 40, doing the 3-cone shuttle or throwing and catching the football in pads.

The interviews are necessary. The players need to be drug tested. The actual player measurements are important as we all know colleges lie about player's height, weight and speed. The workouts can show if small college players can measure up physically to those from bigger schools.

It is not worthless. It is also not the end all be all that should make a grade completed after all the games were played on the field change significantly.

To that extent, the cottage industry that has sprouted up does indeed overrate the spectacle as King stated. And evidence has shown some teams (and scouts) do overvalue workout numbers. Otherwise we would never see the Mike Mamula-type horror stories over the years.

 

[Alexander]

Yea, but that's not the point of this piece. The point is that people shouldn't fool themselves into thinking that performing in the underwear olympics will necessarily translate to the field. I fell for that for the first time ever last year when I was dying for the Cowboys to draft Brian Robiskie exclusively due to how he performed at the combines ( even though I saw him in OSU and wasn't really overly impressed ), ignoring all the past years when I told myself not to ever do that.

This column mentions your point when the scouts says that the combines are good for medical reasons, off the field background, plus you can see and talk to most of the players on a personal basis.

It's just warning people not to fall in love with the 40 yards dash..

QFT---

 

[Doomsday101]

The Combines are one small part of the evaluation process just as personal workouts that will be scheduled after the combines.

If you are being billed as a top 5 to 10 pick some of those guys may not do much at all at the combines since they have nothing to gain by participating in the work out.

For others a good work out may help them move up a few spots but overall the body of work they look at more than any other is what you did on the field during the season.

 

[Chief]

This guy ain't no Brady Quinn.

 

[theogt]

You would honestly want one of our scouts to overvalue the Combine? Are you serious?

*sigh*

I would not want one of our scouts to undervalue the Combine. Physical ability is extremely important. Players are faster, stronger, and bigger than ever and if you can't compete on a physical level, you have no chance. And simply watching college football doesn't give you the whole story (or even 90% of the story). The Combine is the best way to cross-compare those attributes of players. You can see DeMarcus Ware dominate opponents at Troy, but it's almost useless as a comparison until you see him standing next to other high quality players. Only then can you really know just how big, strong, and fast he is.

It also allows comparison of players across years. Player A may be the biggest, fastest DT in the draft this year, but is he really worth a top 5 pick if he would have been the 10th biggest/fastest DT in the previous year?

 

[InmanRoshi]

Remember when Chris Johnson was just a workout warrior and track athlete.

 

[burmafrd]

Realistically the measurements are not really that important. Just because someone is an inch shorter or 5 lbs lighter means nothing. In this day and age no one is going to be found to be 5'8 and 165 while supposedly being 5'11 and 190. Too much information gets out from high school on.

As regards all the other tests and such, so much of that really means little. To me the physical exams and interviews are the real meat.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

There is always a Joe Staley, Chris Houston or even a Chris Johnson that rizes up Draft Boards into the 1st round....then again sometimes they turn out like David Lafluer, Ashley Lelie or Matt Jones.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

King is a moron sometimes. Usually when his hands are moving over a keyboard. Not only do the Combines matter because it gives teams access to these guys to learn their character it also lets you observe who the teams around you in the Draft are watching.

I guess Pro Days don't matter either.

I think you are saying this out of hatred for king. but you don't go into the combine and all of a sudden come out finding a player you didn't know about and then move him into the 1st round or based on the 40 time move him up 3 rounds. the draft board is pretty much set. and as you said you go to find out about a player, health, mental, etc. and if the guy for example shows bad character, then you may drop him a few notches. but I think most teams boards are fairly set and the combine is just to fine tune it or validate what you may already know.

 

[dallasfaniac]

Just by writing their articles, King and Florio suggest that teams use the combine merely to see a players 40 and weightlifting, etc.. Obviously King's source feels the same way if he thinks you take the stopwatch away and they don't know if they like the player.

We always hear about workout warrior Mike Mamula and how he got drafted so high. This is a guy that had 29 sacks over his last 2 years at Boston College. Demarcus Ware had 27.5 in 4 years. The same guy that had close to 10 scouts watching him at one game. The Eagles were targetting Mamula all along but after the combine thought another team might take him instead so they traded up. They didn't change their evaluation of him because of his combine, they changed their evaluation of other teams based upon the combine.

You have to ask yourself, what does the combine give the scouts that pro-days don't. That's what is important to scouts, not a 40 time they can get anywhere.

 

[BigWillie]

King is a moron sometimes. Usually when his hands are moving over a keyboard. Not only do the Combines matter because it gives teams access to these guys to learn their character it also lets you observe who the teams around you in the Draft are watching.

I guess Pro Days don't matter either.

Why is King a moron this time? Did you read the article?

King quoted an unnamed 'club architect' (FO personnel) who was quoted throughout his 5 paragraph part on the Combine.

In full ..

In my calls around the league in the last few days, I spoke to one club architect who shall remain nameless at his request. He told me his team had changed its way of doing business in the scouting realm this year, and his team's draft board is "90 percent set.''

Quoth this architect: "You know why it's 90 percent set now? Because guys go to the Scouting Combine and they change their grade on a player based on things that have nothing to do with playing football. I'm convinced if you took the stopwatches away from a lot of these guys, most of 'em would not be able to tell you whether they liked a player or not.

"These guys go out and watch players all fall, then we all watch the tape of all these guys, and we see what kind of football players they are. That's scouting. Who plays good football in pads? That's scouting. Now we need the combine for the medical evaluations and the personal baggage stuff. But don't come in after the combine and tell me you want to change some guy and move him way up because he ran faster than you thought he would. That's where you get in trouble, and that's why our draft board is pretty well set.''

If I told you who this speaker was, you'd all say, "Whoa, we have to listen to this guy. We respect him.'' Just take my word for it. He's legit.

I enjoy the combine. It gives me the chance to meet a lot of players I'll be covering in the future and to see people in the NFL and get team-by-team updates. It's valuable. But it's way overrated in terms of deciding who should get picked where in the draft, and it always will be.

If anything, King's small piece is actually informative.

But even the 'architect' who was quoted in this article is simply pointing out that some teams rely too heavily on the outcome of a 40 yard dash, a vertical jump, or a 20 yard shuttle to reach a conclusion on a player, as if it defines him.