Physical Football

[Setackin]

Can't be a physical defense if the players are made of glass...

 

[CATCH17]

I've gave up on this coach ever getting it right.

We'll never get anywhere with him.


Next year is just a waste of time for everyone and Jerry knows it.

 

[AbeBeta]

agree,we will continue to drat finesse players too.

Travis Frederick embodies finesse

 

[Oh_Canada]

YPC doesn't mean squat. Cowboys were 31st in rushing offense. That's last. That's bad. That's not running the ball effectively

Every single advanced metric says Dallas was VERY effective running the ball on any down and in virtually any circumstance.
Demarco Murray had an outstanding year and had Garrett, Callahan and Romo used him a little more they probably would have had two more wins this season and a playoff birth. It had nothing to do with not being able to run the ball, they ran it well just not quite enough. Total rush yards mean squat. If I ran the ball 400 times and you run it 200 times, guess who will have more yards per game?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

 

[Oh_Canada]

And what happened when we went short yardage and tried to punch it in? No way our O line was even top 10 in run blocking.

They scored more often than not. The oline WAS easily top ten....stop with your agenda.

 

[Howboutdemcowboys31]

I've been saying all year that the Cowboys should focus the draft on the offensive and defensive lines. To win in the NFL, you need to be able to run the ball and stop the run. I was lambasted by many here who said "It's a passing league now". Well, look at rushing offensive rankings of the 4 teams left:

San Francisco 3
Seattle 4
New England 9
Denver 15

The only guys on our team that start and I would consider physical players are Dez, Tyron, Lee, Church, Frederick. Definitely not enough

 

[ShiningStar]

What happens if you go physical and get flags?....I agree about the lines...I hate the term passing league.....and dallas needs to install any defense that rattles the qb or generates sacks

 

[Rockport]

Every single advanced metric says Dallas was VERY effective running the ball on any down and in virtually any circumstance.
Demarco Murray had an outstanding year and had Garrett, Callahan and Romo used him a little more they probably would have had two more wins this season and a playoff birth. It had nothing to do with not being able to run the ball, they ran it well just not quite enough. Total rush yards mean squat. If I ran the ball 400 times and you run it 200 times, guess who will have more yards per game?

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

Running "not quite enough" as you put it is not running the ball effectively. If you think the Cowboys ran the ball effectively this year, your on as island.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Running "not quite enough" as you put it is not running the ball effectively. If you think the Cowboys ran the ball effectively this year, your on as island.

Demarco Murray ran the ball for 5.2ypc, if you think that's not effective you're off the island.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

I've been saying all year that the Cowboys should focus the draft on the offensive and defensive lines. To win in the NFL, you need to be able to run the ball and stop the run. I was lambasted by many here who said "It's a passing league now". Well, look at rushing offensive rankings of the 4 teams left:

San Francisco 3
Seattle 4
New England 9
Denver 15

why does it matter, Garrett doesn't even run when ahead by 23.

 

[AbeBeta]

why does it matter, Garrett doesn't even run when ahead by 23.

I can guarantee you if he did, some people on the board would complain about how he wasn't being aggressive enough.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Demarco Murray ran the ball for 5.2ypc, if you think that's not effective you're off the island.

That's all well and good, .. but that does not define "running the ball".

Saying that you can run the ball well means being able to run it and get the first down or TD when it is 3rd and 3, or 4th and 2, .. or 4th and goal from the 1 or 2.

If you run successfully in those situations, then "you can run the ball".

 

[Nova]

I agree with your overall point, OP.

Just to share some information though, I've heard from several different Seahawks fans that it is a huge misconception that

 

[TrailBlazer]

Demarco Murray ran the ball for 5.2ypc, if you think that's not effective you're off the island.

5.2 ypc sounds good. The zone blocking scheme Callahan implemented really helped our run game. But we couldn't line up on 3rd and 4 and feel confident picking up the first down by running. This team is built to pass the football. The money tied up at the qb and wr positions prove it. I don't believe we would've won 2 more games simply by running more. Dallas is average and their record accurately reflects that.

 

[Oh_Canada]

5.2 ypc sounds good. The zone blocking scheme Callahan implemented really helped our run game. But we couldn't line up on 3rd and 4 and feel confident picking up the first down by running. This team is built to pass the football. The money tied up at the qb and wr positions prove it. I don't believe we would've won 2 more games simply by running more. Dallas is average and their record accurately reflects that.

Well let's see, they were killing GB on the ground....stopped running-lost.....they abandoned against Philly, had Murray been running instead of Orton throwing on the final drive there is a good chance Dallas would have won.

I'm not sure how the oline can do more than the opportunity given. They were near top of the league in pass blocking and run blocking. It's not there fault the coaches don't have faith or that they don't believe in running the ball when they need to.

 

[jterrell]

I've been saying all year that the Cowboys should focus the draft on the offensive and defensive lines. To win in the NFL, you need to be able to run the ball and stop the run. I was lambasted by many here who said "It's a passing league now". Well, look at rushing offensive rankings of the 4 teams left:

San Francisco 3
Seattle 4
New England 9
Denver 15

hugely misleading because the QBs represent so much of that rushing yardage for Seattle and SF.
Denver made the Super Bowl with relative ease by being the top passing offense in the league and having a very average rushing attack.

there is no one way to win. something belichek has proven with huge swings between seasons for his offense and defense.

it's like saying Alabama plays big boy ball... until they give up 40 points and lose a few games then they need some skills guys who can run.

regardless the major sport the ball travels faster than feet.
the best way to win is to move the ball through the air and prevent that from happening.

there is no coincidence the best passing team is facing the best passing defense team in football in this SB.

that's not to suggest you don't want to be strong in the trenches and able to maul people.
but that is just not an easy way to win in and of itself.
ask the vikes with peterson or the browns with a top notch OL for years.

you need to build complete football teams.
the last few super bowls have shown it is about complete rosters not a couple stars in any one area.

the last team to win with mediocre or worse passing was probably Dilfer's Ravens club that was certainly the most physical and scary in the league.
but last year's Ravens was all about Torey Smith and Anquan Bolden.

i'd love to see how some of you guys build teams in a dispersal draft.

i know for myself i'd go qb, lt, pass rusher, cb, wr in some order with my top 5 picks.

 

[jterrell]

Too many here oversimplify to make a point rather than research and theorize from real data.
Or use their sarcasm every. single. post.
Whether that's because of laziness or agenda- it doesn't matter.
The simpletons and people who refuse to debate good points run rampant around here though and there is no getting around it.
I beg for some here to come back at responses like yours and get nothing but the vacuum of space.
I could name names, but they're too busy caring about "Likes" to worry about other things like making cognitive and successive sense and couldn't care less about what I say- so be it.

No offense to anybody in particular...
Just the truth.

Couldn't agree more.
The beauty of this board for me is the in depth football talk it occasionally provokes.

There has been a long-time cry for more trench draftees.
IS that fair? Seems so but should we just accept that or look at the reality?

Are we drafting finesse players?
Starts by defining finesse.
finesse generally means opposite of brute force. means skilled or speed oriented generally in football.

looking at last 3 drafts top 3 rounds:
2013:
1. Frederick. No one is calling him a finesse anything.
2. Gavin Escobar. Pass catching TE is definition of finesse, blocks no one; skilled hands.
3. JJ Wilcox. Big hitter and Safety. Coverage skills.... borderline guy somewhere between finesse and brute force.
3b. Terence Williams. WR, speed guy with good hands. Finesse for sure.

2012:
1. Morris Claiborne. Finesse x 1000. Pure skill and speed.
3. Tyrone Crawford. 280-5 pounds of muscle. Not finesse. Pass rusher instead of run stopper so perhaps some finesse in manner of skill.

2011:
1. Tyron Smith. Perfect combination of finesse and brute strength. Can anyone complain here? Athletic as Claiborne but so friggin big.
2. Bruce Carter. Thought has finesse when drafted but has developed into more a hitter that is terrible in coverage. Thus far better inside brute force guy then outside finesse guy. Strange deal. Hopefully 2014 is more like 2012.
3. DeMarco Murray. Nothing finesse about Murray. He runs people the heck over and stiff arms guy viciously.

So I guess I'd say we've been a mixed bag.
With 9 r3 or higher picks we've used 3 on the trenches. 2 more on RB/LB. 2 on outside edge players that can't mix it up inside: TWill and Claiborne. And two on hybrid guys: Escobar/Wilcox that move inside and out.

 

[Rockport]

Couldn't agree more.
The beauty of this board for me is the in depth football talk it occasionally provokes.

There has been a long-time cry for more trench draftees.
IS that fair? Seems so but should we just accept that or look at the reality?

Are we drafting finesse players?
Starts by defining finesse.
finesse generally means opposite of brute force. means skilled or speed oriented generally in football.

looking at last 3 drafts top 3 rounds:
2013:
1. Frederick. No one is calling him a finesse anything.
2. Gavin Escobar. Pass catching TE is definition of finesse, blocks no one; skilled hands.
3. JJ Wilcox. Big hitter and Safety. Coverage skills.... borderline guy somewhere between finesse and brute force.
3b. Terence Williams. WR, speed guy with good hands. Finesse for sure.

2012:
1. Morris Claiborne. Finesse x 1000. Pure skill and speed.
3. Tyrone Crawford. 280-5 pounds of muscle. Not finesse. Pass rusher instead of run stopper so perhaps some finesse in manner of skill.

2011:
1. Tyron Smith. Perfect combination of finesse and brute strength. Can anyone complain here? Athletic as Claiborne but so friggin big.
2. Bruce Carter. Thought has finesse when drafted but has developed into more a hitter that is terrible in coverage. Thus far better inside brute force guy then outside finesse guy. Strange deal. Hopefully 2014 is more like 2012.
3. DeMarco Murray. Nothing finesse about Murray. He runs people the heck over and stiff arms guy viciously.

So I guess I'd say we've been a mixed bag.
With 9 r3 or higher picks we've used 3 on the trenches. 2 more on RB/LB. 2 on outside edge players that can't mix it up inside: TWill and Claiborne. And two on hybrid guys: Escobar/Wilcox that move inside and out.

WR's, RB's and TE's have nothing to do with the physical football I'm talking about. That's having an offensive line that dominates the opposition. A line that can run block different schemes as well as pass block. A line that when you need 2 yrds for a first down can get it for you. A physical line that by the 4th qtr, the other team is demoralized.

As for the defense, we need to have the same philosophy as the Seahawks. You want to see how defense is supposed to be played, watch them.

 

[Corso]

Couldn't agree more.
The beauty of this board for me is the in depth football talk it occasionally provokes.

There has been a long-time cry for more trench draftees.
IS that fair? Seems so but should we just accept that or look at the reality?

Are we drafting finesse players?
Starts by defining finesse.
finesse generally means opposite of brute force. means skilled or speed oriented generally in football.

looking at last 3 drafts top 3 rounds:
2013:
1. Frederick. No one is calling him a finesse anything.
2. Gavin Escobar. Pass catching TE is definition of finesse, blocks no one; skilled hands.
3. JJ Wilcox. Big hitter and Safety. Coverage skills.... borderline guy somewhere between finesse and brute force.
3b. Terence Williams. WR, speed guy with good hands. Finesse for sure.

2012:
1. Morris Claiborne. Finesse x 1000. Pure skill and speed.
3. Tyrone Crawford. 280-5 pounds of muscle. Not finesse. Pass rusher instead of run stopper so perhaps some finesse in manner of skill.

2011:
1. Tyron Smith. Perfect combination of finesse and brute strength. Can anyone complain here? Athletic as Claiborne but so friggin big.
2. Bruce Carter. Thought has finesse when drafted but has developed into more a hitter that is terrible in coverage. Thus far better inside brute force guy then outside finesse guy. Strange deal. Hopefully 2014 is more like 2012.
3. DeMarco Murray. Nothing finesse about Murray. He runs people the heck over and stiff arms guy viciously.

So I guess I'd say we've been a mixed bag.
With 9 r3 or higher picks we've used 3 on the trenches. 2 more on RB/LB. 2 on outside edge players that can't mix it up inside: TWill and Claiborne. And two on hybrid guys: Escobar/Wilcox that move inside and out.

So right on all points.
By the by: Tyron has HOF'er written all over him. Talent and DESIRE to be the best. What more could you ask? Wonderful pick.

And this post goes into another post I wrote in another thread- the inconsistency of the Draft process this team puts together.
I don't like it- it doesn't have a strong leader sailing the ship in a singular direction.
Sometimes the draft picks are for need, sometimes it's BPA.
Sometimes they go for a particular skill-set, then they go for another.

I don't like the whole process they have altogether and think it needs a Spring Cleaning.

 

[Corso]

WR's, RB's and TE's have nothing to do with the physical football I'm talking about. That's having an offensive line that dominates the opposition. A line that can run block different schemes as well as pass block. A line that when you need 2 yrds for a first down can get it for you. A physical line that by the 4th qtr, the other team is demoralized.

As for the defense, we need to have the same philosophy as the Seahawks. You want to see how defense is supposed to be played, watch them.

I get what you're saying and you're right.
Just when a general, broad-sweeping claim happens, you tend to look at the team as a whole and the picks as a whole for a counter-argument.
Not just the lines.

Otherwise- I completely agree.