Pierce JR vs Mike Green-2 Edge in the class?

[CalPolyTechnique]

Man I liked Nolan way more…thought he was a better athlete and a looser pass rusher.

It's all context for me. If we were drafting 29-32 in R1 then I'd be way more onboard for a prospect like Walker. At 12, no. I think there's a higher likelihood he ends up being a 5-8 sacks a year guy moreso than a 10-14 sack guy.

 

[cnuball21]

It's all context for me. If we were drafting 29-32 in R1 then I'd be way more onboard for a prospect like Walker. At 12, no. I think there's a higher likelihood he ends up being a 5-8 sacks a year guy moreso than a 10-14 sack guy.

Yea just too much risk IMO at 12.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The optimistic comparison for Jalon Walker is probably Haasan Reddick... a DE/LB tweener who stuck at DE and developed into a sack artist. But you've got to look back at just how twitched up Reddick was.

His drill percentiles are "inflated" because he's so light for a DE, but a 1.59 10 yard split and 11'1" broad jump are just dumb. That is ultra-elite burst. And a 7.01 3-cone shows some decent bend too.

Walker needs to test out with a RAS card like this for me to even think about drafting him in the top 20. We know he's small for an NFL DE, we know he didn't put up great stats, so I need to see some eye-bleeding speed.

 

[Majic]

I struggle with evaluating this new modern day edge rushers. They all look to me like 3-4 olb's then then do 4-3 DE's. We already see what struggles Parsons has against the run when he is dealing with those huge Tackles throughout a game. As a pass rusher, Pearce jumps off the screen, but not sure we can have two undersized edge players playing 4-3 DE for this team.

Crazy we are not switching to 3-4 scheme. This was the year to do it

 

[Cowboyny]

Crazy we are not switching to 3-4 scheme. This was the year to do it

Most schemes are multiple this day and age, even Eberflus runs some 3-4 looks, you just have to have the right personnel to play either way.

 

[Majic]

Most schemes are multiple this day and age, even Eberflus runs some 3-4 looks, you just have to have the right personnel to play either way.

Cowboys don't draft like that, they are too rigid. They won't be interested.

 

[cowboyec]

pearce.
could be our replacement for lawrence if dlaw leaves.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Crazy we are not switching to 3-4 scheme. This was the year to do it

You keep bringing that up. People keep telling you that even 3-4 teams play with 4 down lineman 80% of the time. You keep ignoring them

3-4/4-3 is completely irrelevant in this era. Please understand this!

 

[Majic]

You keep bringing that up. People keep telling you that even 3-4 teams play with 4 down lineman 80% of the time. You keep ignoring them

3-4/4-3 is completely irrelevant in this era. Please understand this!

The 80% nickel is obviously true but irrelevant when it comes to drafting

3-4 teams scout for a particular measurements and 4-3 vice versa. Teams like the Cowboys prioritise big heavy DE'S. Whilst 3-4 teams want the more athletic Edge.

I imagine the Saints are now switching to a 3-4 base. Do you not agree their scouting department/front office will change their priorities?

 

[darthseinfeld]

The 80% nickel is obviously true but irrelevant when it comes to drafting

3-4 teams scout for a particular measurements and 4-3 vice versa. Teams like the Cowboys prioritise big heavy DE'S. Whilst 3-4 teams want the more athletic Edge.

I imagine the Saints are now switching to a 3-4 base. Do you not agree their scouting department/front office will change their priorities?

Its not nearly as relevant as it was before. A 3-4 "DE" is pretty much a defensive tackle. You not putting any true DE's out there at 5T on run downs. Which is the only time you are going to be in a 3 man front. If your basing your scouting off of what front you are in 20% of the time, you are drafting poorly

 

[Majic]

Its not nearly as relevant as it was before. A 3-4 "DE" is pretty much a defensive tackle. You not putting any true DE's out there at 5T on run downs. Which is the only time you are going to be in a 3 man front. If your basing your scouting off of what front you are in 20% of the time, you are drafting poorly

...but teams don't always take the best player on their board (which is what you are essentially advocating)

In the case of Sam Williams who we drafted in the 2nd round. He was a great fit for those wanting a DE in a 4-3. But if your theory is correct he would have had a lot of teams interested in him. I remember when he was drafted he said one other team was very interested in him (Chiefs I believe) early in the draft., but he was not a priority for a number as he was not a scheme fit for a team in the early rounds of the draft.

If your theory is correct Myles Garrett should have a lot of interest, but I doubt it will be a base 3-4 team.

 

[darthseinfeld]

...but teams don't always take the best player on their board (which is what you are essentially advocating)

In the case of Sam Williams who we drafted in the 2nd round. He was a great fit for those wanting a DE in a 4-3. But if your theory is correct he would have had a lot of teams interested in him. I remember when he was drafted he said one other team was very interested in him (Chiefs I believe) early in the draft., but he was not a priority for a number as he was not a scheme fit for a team in the early rounds of the draft.

If your theory is correct Myles Garrett should have a lot of interest, but I doubt it will be a base 3-4 team.

Williams fell because of off the field stuff, and he was also one dimensional

Myles Garrett would have interest from any team no matter what front they run

 

[cnuball21]

...but teams don't always take the best player on their board (which is what you are essentially advocating)

In the case of Sam Williams who we drafted in the 2nd round. He was a great fit for those wanting a DE in a 4-3. But if your theory is correct he would have had a lot of teams interested in him. I remember when he was drafted he said one other team was very interested in him (Chiefs I believe) early in the draft., but he was not a priority for a number as he was not a scheme fit for a team in the early rounds of the draft.

If your theory is correct Myles Garrett should have a lot of interest, but I doubt it will be a base 3-4 team.

Williams’ consensus rankings was as a 4th rounder if I remember correctly…we were the only team dumb enough to draft him in the 2nd.

And yea, the 3/4 vs 4/3 debate is borderline irrelevant which how basically all teams use both. Some teams might have their “types” of players they like but any good drafting team isn’t going to pass on a great player because they don’t think he’s a good scheme fit.

 

[Majic]

Williams’ consensus rankings was as a 4th rounder if I remember correctly…we were the only team dumb enough to draft him in the 2nd.

And yea, the 3/4 vs 4/3 debate is borderline irrelevant which how basically all teams use both. Some teams might have their “types” of players they like but any good drafting team isn’t going to pass on a great player because they don’t think he’s a good scheme fit.

TJ Watt?

 

[Majic]

Williams fell because of off the field stuff, and he was also one dimensional

Myles Garrett would have interest from any team no matter what front they run

Let's see where he ends up

 

[cnuball21]

TJ Watt?

Great example…or all of the 6’3 CBs we drafted that have barely played bc we just had to have long corners instead of good ones.

 

[RS12]

 

[Carson]

He will character concern himself right to 32 and the Eagles

 

[gimmesix]

This is my issue, you know all offseason I have been looking to see how to fix our run defense. I cannot play either with Parsons in hope of being better against the run. As pass rushers, would be similar to that alpha opposite Lamb and make our pass rush lethal, but it does little to fix our biggest weakness of stopping the run.

Stewart on the other hand, does help us day 1 against the run, but doesn't have any where near the pass rush of those two players.

If we can fix our run defense, I all aboard of taking these type of edge rushers, but that remains the biggest weakness. It won't matter if this team is in constantly 3rd and short.

If Eberflus is going to play Parsons primarily at end (which I expect), I think we have our ends. Kneeland was drafted in the second round last year for his potential as a pass rusher and strength as a run defender. If we re-sign Golston, he actually played quite well as a run-down end on the left side. Those two and the return of Williams (who is iffy, but I'd also bring back is the main reason why I'm hesitant to take an end early. I mean, if Carter fell to us, there would be no choice, but otherwise, I think there are other positions to address where the quality is as good as anyone we could get at DE at 12.

I'm not against adding another pure pressure player, and I think I would go with Green if forced to choose, but I just don't think it is a priority, especially when we spent a second-round pick on DE last year. Kneeland may turn out to be a very solid pass rusher because the skill-set is there, he's just got to learn to use it in that area.

 

[Mr_437]

I'm not against adding another pure pressure player, and I think I would go with Green if forced to choose, but I just don't think it is a priority, especially when we spent a second-round pick on DE last year. Kneeland may turn out to be a very solid pass rusher because the skill-set is there, he's just got to learn to use it in that area.

I agree. I see Whitecotton wanting Carl Lawson back and Eberflus wanting Golston back.
RDE - Parsons, Lawson, Williams
LDE - Golston, Kneeland, Wheat

They could absolutely use another high level premium pick at DE, but I doubt it considering all the roster holes. Mike Green over Pearce after recent news, and Green plays the game the right way...reckless.