Twitter: Pitts a potential bust?

[waving monkey]

it always happens before draft. media meets a headline with a hot take

 

[gimmesix]

Yeah but even quarterbacks in the 1st round hit more than tight ends do.

For the past 25 years.....do you know how many 1st round tight ends would go on to be 1st team All Pro?
Jeremy Shockey once, Dallas Clark once and Tony Gonzales.....25 YEARS.....let's lower the bar....you know how many were even 2nd team all Pros? Vernon Davis ONCE and Todd Heap and Greg Olsen who shockingly both were the 31st pick in the drafts.


Other positions bust harder than tight end because nobody really takes tight end in the 1st round. Some years you don't get any but when you do its usually no more than 1...2017 was one of the years there were THREE of them in Engram, Njoku and Howard and that's probably the poster boy for why so many people cautious about spending a 1st rounder on tight end.

Seems like there was a pretty good run of first-rounders in the early 2000s, but from around 2011 on, it hasn't gone well in the first round.

2000 Bubba Franks 2001 Todd Heap 2002 Jeremy Shockey, Daniel Graham (OK), Jerramy Stevens (ehh) 2003 Dallas Clark 2004 Kellen Winslow Jr. (good when healthy) 2005 Heath Miller 2006 Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis 2007 Greg Olsen 2008 Dustin Keller (a couple of good years) 2009 Brandon Pettigrew (a couple of good years) 2010 Jermaine Gresham (a couple of good years).

Of course, even with some of them, you could argue that better TEs were taken after them, including Witten, Chris Cooley, Gronkowski, Graham. That's picking and choosing because one or two true successes out of 20 a year isn't all that great.

Not sure why the success rate the past 10 years has been so low comparatively.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Odd......but he's right about QB and playing calling control TE's success.

Fant and TJ Hockenson arent trending towards bust status

 

[darthseinfeld]

I mean, the last TE that I thought was going to wreck the league was O.J. Howard. The jury is still out on him. Do you even remember him? I know, right?

He was very good when he was healthy. However he is always hurt

 

[America's Cowboy]

We don't need a TE.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Seems like there was a pretty good run of first-rounders in the early 2000s, but from around 2011 on, it hasn't gone well in the first round.

2000 Bubba Franks 2001 Todd Heap 2002 Jeremy Shockey, Daniel Graham (OK), Jerramy Stevens (ehh) 2003 Dallas Clark 2004 Kellen Winslow Jr. (good when healthy) 2005 Heath Miller 2006 Vernon Davis, Marcedes Lewis 2007 Greg Olsen 2008 Dustin Keller (a couple of good years) 2009 Brandon Pettigrew (a couple of good years) 2010 Jermaine Gresham (a couple of good years).

Of course, even with some of them, you could argue that better TEs were taken after them, including Witten, Chris Cooley, Gronkowski, Graham. That's picking and choosing because one or two true successes out of 20 a year isn't all that great.

Not sure why the success rate the past 10 years has been so low comparatively.

I actually don’t know either. What’s alarming is that in those past 10 years there have been some great right ends just not in the 1st. Who saw George Kittle being the best of his class?

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

He was very good when he was healthy. However he is always hurt

What disturbs me is that if I’m not mistaken he wasn’t hurt last year in the playoffs but Brate and Gronk got most of the reps. Third on the depth chart....

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Fant and TJ Hockenson arent trending towards bust status

It just depends on how you view it. It’s like is Leonard Fournette a bad player? No. For a first rounder he is though. Would I trade a 1st rounder for Fant or Hockensen? I wouldn’t. To me if you won’t trade a 1st rounder for that guy than he’s a bust.

 

[darthseinfeld]

What disturbs me is that if I’m not mistaken he wasn’t hurt last year in the playoffs but Brate and Gronk got most of the reps. Third on the depth chart....

He really hasnt been productive with Arians, but I dont think Arians really uses inline guys

 

[darthseinfeld]

It just depends on how you view it. It’s like is Leonard Fournette a bad player? No. For a first rounder he is though. Would I trade a 1st rounder for Fant or Hockensen? I wouldn’t. To me if you won’t trade a 1st rounder for that guy than he’s a bust.

I cant call TE's, even ones drafted in the first round, who logged 60 catch seasons in their 2nd year trending towards a bust. Thats trending the opposite direction to me. To me this guy this guy is trying to create a narrative and didnt do his research

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I cant call TE's, even ones drafted in the first round, who logged 60 catch seasons in their 2nd year trending towards a bust. Thats trending the opposite direction to me. To me this guy this guy is trying to create a narrative and didnt do his research

In 2021 though....how hard is it to get 60 catches for a tight end? Hell Dalton Schultz who most of us want to move on from is our 2nd string backup who we got later in the draft and he had 63 Catches for 614 yards.

And that's the discussion I think that's being had. Would you rather spend a late 4th rounder on Schultz or a 1st rounder on Hockensen? Its the same as the RB discussion would you rather draft a guy in the 1st round or in later rounds? History points to it makes more sense to wait on these positions.

 

[darthseinfeld]

In 2021 though....how hard is it to get 60 catches for a tight end? Hell Dalton Schultz who most of us want to move on from is our 2nd string backup who we got later in the draft and he had 63 Catches for 614 yards.

And that's the discussion I think that's being had. Would you rather spend a late 4th rounder on Schultz or a 1st rounder on Hockensen? Its the same as the RB discussion would you rather draft a guy in the 1st round or in later rounds? History points to it makes more sense to wait on these positions.

Your pretty lucky to get 60+ catches out of a 4th round TE. Thats not happening everytime.

The term "bust" gets thrown around and re defined too much. And how are two guys in there second year who's production has gone up "trending" towards bust. I dont think he understands what trending means lol. This guy is just spinning a narrative, and not particularly well

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Your pretty lucky to get 60+ catches out of a 4th round TE. Thats not happening everytime.

The term "bust" gets thrown around and re defined too much. And how are two guys in there second year who's production has gone up "trending" towards bust. I dont think he understands what trending means lol. This guy is just spinning a narrative, and not particularly well

Like I said above, would you draft them this year in the first round? You may. I like Hockensen I’m just not a fan of tight ends in the first round.

And while I do agree with what the guy is trying to get across.....I don’t think Pitts falls into this same category. I’ve never seen a guy with this size and speed at the position before. He looks more like Calvin Johnson than he does the typical tight end.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

In 2021 though....how hard is it to get 60 catches for a tight end? Hell Dalton Schultz who most of us want to move on from is our 2nd string backup who we got later in the draft and he had 63 Catches for 614 yards.

And that's the discussion I think that's being had. Would you rather spend a late 4th rounder on Schultz or a 1st rounder on Hockensen? Its the same as the RB discussion would you rather draft a guy in the 1st round or in later rounds? History points to it makes more sense to wait on these positions.

People bring up Gonzales, but for all his production his teams never made the SB, let alone win it. Pitts is more in the vein of Shannon Sharpe, a tight end that was used as the lead receiver, and his team did win a SB. If you're drafting Pitts, it ain't going to be as a typical tight end. He's a big receiver, I'd bet a dollar to a donut whoever drafts him won't ask him to block much.

Cowboys included. And if Dallas takes him and makes him a receiver in actuality, who do you take catches from? Jarwin? Jarwin isn't that great of a blocker, so you'd waste him pretty much. And how many passes are there going to be to go around? Cooper, Gallaup, Lamb, Schultz, Zeke, Pollard and Jarwin all are going to want their share, add Pitts to the mix and you're going to have to throw 45 times a game at least to utilize all of the above players to their full potential.

And take Pitts at 10, now you're first defensive player is no better than the 44th player, yes you can get a really good one there, but then you're in the 3rd round, talent begins to drop a good bit then.

Just don't see Pitts being the guy the Cowboys should get at 10, even if he's available. But I have no problem with those who do, we all have our opinions...

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

People bring up Gonzales, but for all his production his teams never made the SB, let alone win it. Pitts is more in the vein of Shannon Sharpe, a tight end that was used as the lead receiver, and his team did win a SB. If you're drafting Pitts, it ain't going to be as a typical tight end. He's a big receiver, I'd bet a dollar to a donut whoever drafts him won't ask him to block much...

Oh I agree. In part this is why I think he’s the first non QB taken off the board. Maybe after Sewell...but if you need a receiver why wouldn’t you pick Pitts first?

 

[darthseinfeld]

Like I said above, would you draft them this year in the first round? You may. I like Hockensen I’m just not a fan of tight ends in the first round.

And while I do agree with what the guy is trying to get across.....I don’t think Pitts falls into this same category. I’ve never seen a guy with this size and speed at the position before. He looks more like Calvin Johnson than he does the typical tight end.

Hockensen and Fant I would definitely take in the first round if I needed a TE. I thought both got, in particular Hockensen (8th overallis pretty rich for him) got overdrafted. But both have been worthy first round picks. What funny is Hockensen may go higher than Pitts

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Hockensen and Fant I would definitely take in the first round if I needed a TE. I thought both got, in particular Hockensen (8th overallis pretty rich for him) got overdrafted. But both have been worthy first round picks. What funny is Hockensen may go higher than Pitts

Did not think he was the 8th overall that’s insane. For him to be worth that he needs to be All Pro....

 

[bonafidebanter]

That whole draft class I thought would do more. Engram, Howard, Njoku.......hell I even expected more Everett from the Rams....

Meanwhile, the guys behind them in Kittle and Jonnu Smith seem to be better than them......well Kittle for sure I guess jury is out on Jonnu.

Yeah, that was a great class that year.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I don’t see why people are balking at taking a TE in the first round?

This is a different era; pass catching TEs are integral parts of most offenses. There were two TEs in the Top 5 for receptions last year. Complete TEs that can stay on the field all three downs and contribute on non-passing downs are invaluable.

Would I have drafted Hockenson at #8 overall? No, but he certainly was a 1st round talent and in just his second season made the Pro Bowl. Yet he’s somehow a disappointment?

The oversimplified notion of dismissing taking a particular position in a specific round is glibly uninformed.

 

[xwalker]

Can he tackle?

KC could have traded Tony Gonzalez for a bus load of defensive player within a year or of drafting him...

If a team has the chance to draft a HoF type talent then they should do it regardless of need.