Players that have failed: Mental or Physical?

[xwalker]

How many draft picks failed due to lack of physical ability vs lack of proper mental-makeup?

Players in bold have questions about their physical abilities. All other players had the required physical ability, IMO.

These failures are relative to their draft position.

Players drafted in the 4th round or earlier:
2007
Pass 1 26 Anthony Spencer LB
Fail 3 67 James Marten OT :Not certain if physical or mental. Maybe both.
Fail 4 103 Isaiah Stanback WR :Mental (super athletic)
Pass 4 122 Doug Free OT

2008
Fail 1 22 Felix Jones RB :Great athlete, but lacked aggression and not smart.
Fail 1 25 Mike Jenkins CB :Great athlete, but didn't like physical play and not a good locker-room guy.
Fail 2 61 Martellus Bennett TE :Extremely inflated feeling of self-importance. Questionable effort because he didn't like being a backup.
Fail 4 122 Tashard Choice RB :Might have overcome physical limitations with proper mental approach. No effort on special teams, Vick autograph...
2009
Fail 3 69 Jason Williams LB :Could not learn coverage concepts. Super Athlete.
Fail 3 75 Robert Brewster OT :Lazy. Didn't like football. Had the required size and athleticism.
Fail 4 101 Stephen McGee QB :Could make the throws and was athletic. Couldn't pull the trigger under pressure.
Fail 4 110 Victor Butler LB :Couldn't grasp all of the complexities of 3-4 OLB (coverage, pass rush and run defense).
Fail 4 117 Brandon Williams LB :Both physical and mental.
2010
Pass 1 24 24 Dez Bryant WR
Pass 2 23 55 Sean Lee ILB
Fail 4 21 119 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah FS :Super athlete. Could cover or play the run, but could not figure out when to switch from one to the other.
2010 - Supplemental Draft
Fail 7 Josh Brent NT/DE :Not a 4th, but failed due to the same issue that he had in college. Driving while Intoxicated.
2011
Pass 1 9 Tyron Smith OT
???? 2 40 Bruce Carter ILB :Super Athlete, but slow learner. Questionable effort.
Pass 3 71 Demarco Murray RB
Fail 4 110 David Arkin G Physical limitations.

Summary: Only 1 player was definitely lacking in NFL physical ability. Threee other players had questionable physical ability.

 

[hra8700]

Physical vs. mental is a very black and white approach. There are likely thousands of attributes that determine success. Identifying 5 or 6 of them as physical, and lumping everything else as "poor mental makeup" is overly simplistic from a draft strategy standpoint and overly judgmental from a player appreciation standpoint.

 

[hra8700]

For instance, you may say a player has "inconsistent technique" and thus determine he has "poor mental makeup." But the ability to consistently perform repetitive timed motor functions is likely a neuronal attribute rather than a "does he want it enough" attribute.

 

[Jerryrage]

Wonderlic scores matter. I mean just look at this GM

 

[TTexasTT]

Are you clumping those prone to injury as a "failed physical" reason.
If there were a way to put Sean Lees drive and knowledge into Bruce Carters body youd have one hell of a LB.

 

[xwalker]

Physical vs. mental is a very black and white approach. There are likely thousands of attributes that determine success. Identifying 5 or 6 of them as physical, and lumping everything else as "poor mental makeup" is overly simplistic from a draft strategy standpoint and overly judgmental from a player appreciation standpoint.

Players either have the physical ability to play or they don't. If they have the physical ability to succeed, yet they fail, then there was something in their mental approach to the game that failed.

Lack of proper mental-makeup to succeed in the NFL is not an indication of lack of intelligence. Lack of intelligence might be one cause of failure, but it's not the only issue involved in mental-makeup.

Bobbie Carpenter was not stupid. He knew how to play the game and he has the size, strength and speed to do it; however, he lacked the desire to hit people.

Mike Jenkins definitely had the physical ability to be a very good CB; however, a defensive player that repeatedly avoided tackling someone has a poor mental-makeup in regards to being a professional football player.

If a TE is big and strong and is great at catching balls in practice drills, yet fails in real games because he does not have a proper understanding of running routes, etc.., then he does not have the proper mental-makeup.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Bobbie Carpenter was not stupid. He knew how to play the game and he has the size, strength and speed to do it; however, he lacked the desire to hit people.

What I wonder is how BP didn't know this before the draft?

 

[burmafrd]

What I wonder is how BP didn't know this before the draft?

he was able to cover it up at OSU somehow. Because none of the scouting reports I ever saw said that was a problem.

But in the pros they hit a lot harder and a lot more often. Something like that begins to get very apparent.

 

[Redball Express]

How many draft picks failed due to lack of physical ability vs lack of proper mental-makeup?

Players in bold have questions about their physical abilities. All other players had the required physical ability, IMO.

These failures are relative to their draft position.

Players drafted in the 4th round or earlier:
2007
Pass 1 26 Anthony Spencer LB
Fail 3 67 James Marten OT :Not certain if physical or mental. Maybe both.
Fail 4 103 Isaiah Stanback WR :Mental (super athletic)
Pass 4 122 Doug Free OT

2008
Fail 1 22 Felix Jones RB :Great athlete, but lacked aggression and not smart.
Fail 1 25 Mike Jenkins CB :Great athlete, but didn't like physical play and not a good locker-room guy.
Fail 2 61 Martellus Bennett TE :Extremely inflated feeling of self-importance. Questionable effort because he didn't like being a backup.
Fail 4 122 Tashard Choice RB :Might have overcome physical limitations with proper mental approach. No effort on special teams, Vick autograph...
2009
Fail 3 69 Jason Williams LB :Could not learn coverage concepts. Super Athlete.
Fail 3 75 Robert Brewster OT :Lazy. Didn't like football. Had the required size and athleticism.
Fail 4 101 Stephen McGee QB :Could make the throws and was athletic. Couldn't pull the trigger under pressure.
Fail 4 110 Victor Butler LB :Couldn't grasp all of the complexities of 3-4 OLB (coverage, pass rush and run defense).
Fail 4 117 Brandon Williams LB :Both physical and mental.
2010
Pass 1 24 24 Dez Bryant WR
Pass 2 23 55 Sean Lee ILB
Fail 4 21 119 Akwasi Owusu-Ansah FS :Super athlete. Could cover or play the run, but could not figure out when to switch from one to the other.
2010 - Supplemental Draft
Fail 7 Josh Brent NT/DE :Not a 4th, but failed due to the same issue that he had in college. Driving while Intoxicated.
2011
Pass 1 9 Tyron Smith OT
???? 2 40 Bruce Carter ILB :Super Athlete, but slow learner. Questionable effort.
Pass 3 71 Demarco Murray RB
Fail 4 110 David Arkin G Physical limitations.

Summary: Only 1 player was definitely lacking in NFL physical ability. Threee other players had questionable physical ability.

No matter how you slice it..

this team has significant issues with drafting its talent to get the results needed.

Whether its who is making the evaluations or who is making the decisions..its not working.

When Parcells was here and Ireland was here..it was not a coincidence the team significantly improved.

I realize Ireland was recently let go in Miami,

but when he was here..

..he was considered a guru and this team was clearly relevant.

Not so much now.

And when the word Larry Lacewell keeps popping up in the Jerrah inner circle still..

..that's a problem.

 

[TTexasTT]

No matter how you slice it..

this team has significant issues with drafting its talent to get the results needed.

Whether its who is making the evaluations or who is making the decisions..its not working.

When Parcells was here and Ireland was here..it was not a coincidence the team significantly improved.

I realize Ireland was recently let go in Miami,

but when he was here..

..he was considered a guru and this team was clearly relevant.

Not so much now.

And when the word Larry Lacewell keeps popping up in the Jerrah inner circle still..

..that's a problem.

I just had a look at your post history. I see what youre up to....
atleast you stick with it LMAO

 

[xwalker]

What I wonder is how BP didn't know this before the draft?

Bobbie's dad played for Parcells. BP would shoot from the hip and just take players if their Dad's were players or coaches that he knew something about.

He also drafted Jacob Rogers because his dad was a well know High School football coach.

 

[xwalker]

No matter how you slice it..

this team has significant issues with drafting its talent to get the results needed.

Whether its who is making the evaluations or who is making the decisions..its not working.

When Parcells was here and Ireland was here..it was not a coincidence the team significantly improved.

I realize Ireland was recently let go in Miami,

but when he was here..

..he was considered a guru and this team was clearly relevant.

Not so much now.

And when the word Larry Lacewell keeps popping up in the Jerrah inner circle still..

..that's a problem.

You realize that Bobbie Carpenter and Jacob Rogers were drafted by Parcells. Also, BP wanted to draft Merriman instead of Ware. He also traded out of the pick that could have been Steven Jackson. He thought they should take Marcus Spears before Ware when they had two 1st round picks.

This thread was not really about who did the drafting. I wanted to explore the concept of mental-makeup vs physical ability of players added to the team.

 

[Redball Express]

You realize that Bobbie Carpenter and Jacob Rogers were drafted by Parcells. Also, BP wanted to draft Merriman instead of Ware. He also traded out of the pick that could have been Steven Jackson. He thought they should take Marcus Spears before Ware when they had two 1st round picks.

This thread was not really about who did the drafting. I wanted to explore the concept of mental-makeup vs physical ability of players added to the team.

Understood..

But the way I process your topic also goes back to how the draft selections were conceived

..from the topic which impacts how the management \coaches did as well

.in converting your players to your final analysis observations..

That's all.

Not hijacking your thread.

Sorry.

 

[hra8700]

Players either have the physical ability to play or they don't. If they have the physical ability to succeed, yet they fail, then there was something in their mental approach to the game that failed.

Lack of proper mental-makeup to succeed in the NFL is not an indication of lack of intelligence.

Im not sure who you're responding to, but if this is in response to my criticism of your lack of nuance, repeating yourself in the exact same black and white terms really does nothing to address my criticism. I also never mentioned intelligence in regards to mental makeup, but nice red herring.

 

[Teren_Kanan]

Vick autograph...
.

Stopped reading there. Just lol.

 

[BigStar]

Bobbie's dad played for Parcells. BP would shoot from the hip and just take players if their Dad's were players or coaches that he knew something about.

He also drafted Jacob Rogers because his dad was a well know High School football coach.

Damn Jersey Mentality...wit dey no show jobs

 

[XxTDxX]

A lot of things are up to opinion as well.. For example: Is toughness a physical or mental trait? one could argue there are two kinds of toughness both mental and physical and I think we had/have some players that either lack one or both.

 

[unionjack8]

Players either have the physical ability to play or they don't. If they have the physical ability to succeed, yet they fail, then there was something in their mental approach to the game that failed.

Lack of proper mental-makeup to succeed in the NFL is not an indication of lack of intelligence. Lack of intelligence might be one cause of failure, but it's not the only issue involved in mental-makeup.

Bobbie Carpenter was not stupid. He knew how to play the game and he has the size, strength and speed to do it; however, he lacked the desire to hit people.

Mike Jenkins definitely had the physical ability to be a very good CB; however, a defensive player that repeatedly avoided tackling someone has a poor mental-makeup in regards to being a professional football player.

If a TE is big and strong and is great at catching balls in practice drills, yet fails in real games because he does not have a proper understanding of running routes, etc.., then he does not have the proper mental-makeup.

Aka could run fast in a straight line but wasn't athletic enough to flip his hips. That's a physical failure. Is this a thread backing up the RKG approach? That's how it reads to me. Draft guys that can play football

 

[unionjack8]

Players either have the physical ability to play or they don't. If they have the physical ability to succeed, yet they fail, then there was something in their mental approach to the game that failed.

Lack of proper mental-makeup to succeed in the NFL is not an indication of lack of intelligence. Lack of intelligence might be one cause of failure, but it's not the only issue involved in mental-makeup.

Bobbie Carpenter was not stupid. He knew how to play the game and he has the size, strength and speed to do it; however, he lacked the desire to hit people.

Mike Jenkins definitely had the physical ability to be a very good CB; however, a defensive player that repeatedly avoided tackling someone has a poor mental-makeup in regards to being a professional football player.

If a TE is big and strong and is great at catching balls in practice drills, yet fails in real games because he does not have a proper understanding of running routes, etc.., then he does not have the proper mental-makeup.

Mike Jenkins tackled hard in Oakland. Maybe it's our coaching. He was also physical enough to play umpteen weeks with a separated shoulder

 

[Future]

I think you're overrating the physical ability of some of those guys.

Butler and Brewster, at least to me, didn't have the physical ability as much as anything.