Please don't start the "must-win" stuff

[Diehardblues]

But the meaning of must-win is tied to elimination. This game eliminates us from nothing. Does it make our path more difficult if we lose? Absolutely.

Of course but that’s not how it’s more widely used and perhaps why you want to dismiss it.

Maybe you’re misconstruing the context of it’s use.

 

[Diehardblues]

But the meaning of must-win is tied to elimination. This game eliminates us from nothing. Does it make our path more difficult if we lose? Absolutely.

You agree with the premise of the narrative or context.

So would you agree if we want to make our path less difficult this is a must win game?

If we want to take the division and top seed in our control is this a must win game ?

Not absolutely but it certainly opens up a better or clearer path as you’ve agreed to which is the jest of the context and narrative of must win in this situation.

 

[gimmesix]

Of course but that’s not how it’s more widely used and perhaps why you want to dismiss it.

Maybe you’re misconstruing the context of it’s use.

This is the dictionary definition of must-win:

Must-win refers to a contest, project, or scheme that requires a successful or victorious outcome because anything less would negate all preceding efforts1. Must Wins are typically opportunities that are critical to the company for either strategic or financial reasons2. In sports, must-win games are those that a team must win to keep their season alive or to qualify for the playoffs3.

This is from baseball-almanac.com:

A game that is essential to staying alive in a season or a series, esp. in postseason play. Game 7 of the World Series is a "must win" for both teams. "This club [Baltimore Orioles] hasn't really been in a must win, in a big game [in five years]." (Orioles manager Davey Johnson, quoted in The Baltimore Sun, Sept. 25, 1996).

The term itself is being misconstrued.

 

[fivetwos]

I didn’t read through eight pages of posts, but if this team doesn’t have any home playoff games, they have next to no chance of getting into the Super Bowl.

So no, it’s not a “must win,” but it sure turns things into a longshot.

 

[gimmesix]

You agree with the premise of the narrative or context.

So would you agree if we want to make our path less difficult this is a must win game?

If we want to take the division and top seed in our control is this a must win game ?

Not absolutely but it certainly opens up a better or clearer path as you’ve agreed to which is the jest of the context and narrative of must win in this situation.

Those things you mentioned do not fit the definition of must-win. As I said, it is being misappropriated.

Do we need to beat Philly to make our path less difficult? Absolutely. Do we need to beat Philly to have the division and top seed in our control? Yes.

Is this game a must-win? No. You can't steal a word away from its meaning to apply it to a situation where it doesn't apply. There is no element of staying alive for the season or postseason involved here. Again, I'm a wordsmith, so misappropriations bother me more than they bother others. Even if we do make it apply to home-field advantage and the division title, it would not be a must-win because we are not eliminated from either with a loss. As you said, it would simply make our path easier and put us in control.

 

[Diehardblues]

This is the dictionary definition of must-win:

Must-win refers to a contest, project, or scheme that requires a successful or victorious outcome because anything less would negate all preceding efforts1. Must Wins are typically opportunities that are critical to the company for either strategic or financial reasons2. In sports, must-win games are those that a team must win to keep their season alive or to qualify for the playoffs3.

This is from baseball-almanac.com:

A game that is essential to staying alive in a season or a series, esp. in postseason play. Game 7 of the World Series is a "must win" for both teams. "This club [Baltimore Orioles] hasn't really been in a must win, in a big game [in five years]." (Orioles manager Davey Johnson, quoted in The Baltimore Sun, Sept. 25, 1996).

The term itself is being misconstrued.

Yes and once you realize the context it’s being used in can you fully appreciate.

 

[Diehardblues]

Those things you mentioned do not fit the definition of must-win. As I said, it is being misappropriated.

Like I said you’re refusing to acknowledge the context or narrative it’s being used as.

Everyone realizes what the core definition is.

There would be no cause to ever use the term then as elimination games are a given. Why would anyone ever say an elimination game is must win. Lol

 

[gimmesix]

Like I said you’re refusing to acknowledge the context or narrative it’s being used as.

Everyone realizes what the core definition is.

There would be no cause to ever use the term then as elimination games are a given. Why would anyone ever say an elimination game is must win. Lol

You cannot apply it to a context or narrative that does not fit the meaning of the word. That is misappropriation. And no, I don't think everyone realizes what the definition is. The definition is that it is an elimination game; that's why you say must-win for an elimination game ... it is the definition of the word. If definitions don't matter to you, then use it however you want. Doesn't make it right.

 

[gimmesix]

Yes and once you realize the context it’s being used in can you fully appreciate.

If the context isn't staying alive in a season or postseason, then the context is wrong.

Even if you want to alter it to staying alive for the No. 1 seed or division title, must-win would not apply, because even if we lose those things are not necessarily out of play. We don't have full control of them and the path is more difficult, but we don't have to win this game to get the No. 1 seed or division title unless, of course, the only game Philly loses is to us at home. But if that's the case, I'd be very surprise if we win the division and No. 1 seed even if we beat Philly because I strongly doubt we're going to go undefeated from this point on.

 

[Diehardblues]

You cannot apply it to a context or narrative that does not fit the meaning of the word. That is misappropriation. And no, I don't think everyone realizes what the definition is. The definition is that it is an elimination game; that's why you say must-win for an elimination game ... it is the definition of the word. If definitions don't matter to you, then use it however you want. Doesn't make it right.

The whole idea of using “ must win” is to create or represent something that isn’t necessarily absolute .

Why would anyone use it in an obvious situation.

But I see why you want to dismiss it. By definition there are never must win situations unless it’s an elimination game. Where’s the fun and imagination in that.

 

[kskboys]

Of course but that’s not how it’s more widely used and perhaps why you want to dismiss it.

Maybe you’re misconstruing the context of it’s use.

I think it's merely an overused exaggeration. Like the terms "elite", "shut down corner", "unblockable". Things like that. They're never 100% accurate, more like exaggerations to make a point.

 

[gimmesix]

The whole idea of using “ must win” is to create or represent something that isn’t necessarily absolute .

Why would anyone use it in an obvious situation.

But I see why you want to dismiss it. By definition there are never must win situations unless it’s an elimination game. Where’s the fun and imagination in that.

If you want to use your imagination, make up a word that doesn't already have a specific meaning instead of trying to make a word mean something it doesn't. I'm all for that. I'm not for making the English language more complicated than it is by using a word that has a set definition in a way that goes against that definition. One that comes across my desk quite often is "entitled," as in that book is entitled "The Last Cowboy." Entitled means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. It has nothing to do with the title of something. Instead, it should be: That book is titled, "The Last Cowboy." However, entitled is used a whole, whole lot in that wrong way.

Again, I'm a stickler. I usually try my best not to be an editor here, though ... because I'd spend all my time doing that, and that's not why I'm here.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think it's merely an overused exaggeration. Like the terms "elite", "shut down corner", "unblockable". Things like that. They're never 100% accurate, more like exaggerations to make a point.

Of course. All terms which don’t have an exact meaning depending on the context and narrative being used. Absolutely my friend!!

 

[Diehardblues]

If you want to use your imagination, make up a word that doesn't already have a specific meaning instead of trying to make a word mean something it doesn't. I'm all for that. I'm not for making the English language more complicated than it is by using a word that has a set definition in a way that goes against that definition. One that comes across my desk quite often is "entitled," as in that book is entitled "The Last Cowboy." Entitled means believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. It has nothing to do with the title of something. Instead, it should be: That book is titled, "The Last Cowboy."

Again, I'm a stickler. I usually try my best not to be an editor here, though ... because I'd spend all my time doing that, and that's not why I'm here.

As always in discussing opinions there are Grey areas. Even once we agree that “ must win” term is often misused or over exaggerated as Ksboys eluded to above we wouldn’t all agree much like with many terms .

In the end you basically agreed if we want to have an easier or clearer path to win division and top seed this is a must win game. Which in this case doesn’t mean an elimination game.

 

[gimmesix]

I think it's merely an overused exaggeration. Like the terms "elite", "shut down corner", "unblockable". Things like that. They're never 100% accurate, more like exaggerations to make a point.

Elite is a subjective word and I don't think shut-down corner and unblockable have ever been applied since they first started being used to corners who never give up a catch or a player who can never be blocked. Must-win was created to mean an elimination scenario, so applying it to a non-elimination scenario is less of an exaggeration than a misuse.

 

[gimmesix]

As always in discussing opinions there are Grey areas. Even once we agree that “ must win” term is often misused or over exaggerated as Ksboys eluded to above we wouldn’t all agree much like with many terms .

In the end you basically agreed if we want to have an easier or clearer path to win division and top seed this is a must win game. Which in this case doesn’t mean an elimination game.

Nope. I do not and will not agree that this is a must-win game. You can misuse the word if you wish, but don't put your misuse in my mouth. I will only apply it in elimination scenarios, as the word was meant to be used. Winning would give us an easier path to win the division and top seed. That's all that needs to be said.

 

[Diehardblues]

Nope. I do not and will not agree that this is a must-win game. You can misuse the word if you wish, but don't put your misuse in my mouth.

You still don’t get how it’s being used. Not saying it’s a must win game which would mean elimination game. This is obviously not a win or go home game.

It’s an important or must win if we want a clearer path to win division and top seed. Which you agreed to.

 

[gimmesix]

You still don’t get how it’s being used. Not saying it’s a must win game which would mean elimination game. This is not a win or go home game.

It’s a must win if we want a clearer path to win division and top seed.

You cannot misappropriate a word that has a specific meaning (elimination game) and give it another meaning and believe that is acceptable. That's not how it's supposed to work. It would be like me calling Sunday's game a playoff game because of its level of importance. Just because I decide to assign a different meaning to playoff game does not make it a playoff game. Same with must-win game.

However, I'm tired of this debate, so feel how you want to feel. We've seen a lot of the words in our society get stretched to mean something they weren't intended to mean. I hate to see it because words get diluted by that, making it harder to know what is meant when they are used, even sometimes when considering the context. You might mean must-win the way you are using it, but that doesn't mean others mean it that way. They may see this game as eliminating us from contention in their use of must-win instead of just making the path to winning the division and top seed more difficult..

 

[Diehardblues]

You can misappropriate a word that has a specific meaning (elimination game) and give it another meaning. That's not how it's supposed to work. It would be like me calling Sunday's game a playoff game because of its level of importance. Just because I decide to assign a different meaning to playoff game does not make it a playoff game. Same with must-win game.

You’re still not understanding the difference in how the term is being used. Or simply too stubborn because it goes against your narrative.

I haven’t said this is a must win game in the context or definition as such. I just laid it our for you above. You’re ok with word important and it’s implication but the word must is too much drama for you I guess.

 

[kskboys]

Elite is a subjective word and I don't think shut-down corner and unblockable have ever been applied since they first started being used to corners who never give up a catch or a player who can never be blocked. Must-win was created to mean an elimination scenario, so applying it to a non-elimination scenario is less of an exaggeration than a misuse.

Same vein, my friend.

No CB's never give up catches, and everyone can be blocked. Same as the only real must win scenario means you are officially eliminated if you lose. Really, all they're saying is that it's an important game, that's all. Using a little exaggeration to do so. Same as shut down and unblockable.