Please help me understand the impact of coaching!

[CowboysFaninHouston]

So I am an original anti-Garrett guy. I think he is a nice guy. Represents the organization well. If I was looking for a sales guy I would hire him. Football coach - I think the guy is below average to terrible. Since day one (including his time as OC) he has been the beneficiary of good QB play for all but 1 year. We know what happened that one year. IMO he costs the team 2 games a year. I could go on and on. My sense is that most have the Cowboys between 8 and 10 wins. A fringe playoff contender. I just do not understand why. The HC is going into year 9, should they be better by now? We Cowboys fans tend to be biased towards our players. We just know our roster better so most chronically overestimate the talent level. That said, and maybe I am biased, I think this team is solid top to bottom. Then why do I think this is a fringe playoff team? Jason Garrett and his coordinators instill little confidence.

Please provide me with some insight. If the following guys were our Head Coach what would you expect this season's record to be? Pretend you are betting the kid's college fund(s) on it.

Bill Belichick (The Best) 12-14 wins
Urban Meyer (The Best in College) 11-13 wins
Dabo Swinney (The next best in college) 10-12 wins
Kyle Shanahan (The young gun) 10-12 wins
Bill Cowher (Retired, but still great) 11-13 wins

That's how I see it. IMO NFL coaches impact the game more than any other professional sport.

outside of bilicheck, who has had great success without a great QB play? to say he benefited from great QB is pulling the rug from under almost every coach in the league.

and for a crappy football coach...he has a winning record.....I have a loooonnnnggg list of coaches who don't. and as OC, he had the offense top 10 three times and top 5 twice. isn't that what an OC is supposed to do?

and most have us at 8-10, because as cowboys fans we think our players are a lot better than everybody else and somehow when an average players steps through the doors of the cowboys facility, they become superman. the fact is that NFC is very tough this year. eagles, rams, minn, no, Atlanta, Carolina, GB, are all loaded. so its going to be a tough for everyone and btw, they all have good players, just like dallas.

of all the guys you listed, I take bilicheck. I think the rest are about the same, except maybe shanahan, but he wasn't available when we hired a coach. I don't buy into URban myer and his gimmikie college offense. I don't care about swinney. no college coach, except for Saban can come to NFL and have success. totally different. Saban runs a pro like team and has prior pro experience.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Not even close? Have you looked at Urban Meyer's record? I am not discounting Saban at all. Guy is an all-time great. Today though you would take Meyer over Saban. 2015 is hard to forget.

in college...yes. in NFL, its saban over Meyers. gimmick doesn't work for long in NFL.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I find Bill Cowher to be very overrated by many. Combine that by being out of the league for so long and I don't want him close to the Cowboys.

exactly...how many years did they guy coach until he reached superbowl and finally won one?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You mean Jimmy Johnson didn't get it done by being a jerk? Illusion shattered! Question, was Phil Simms a great QB?

at the time. yes. phil simms was one of the top QBs in the league...not HOF...but top echelon.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

At first I thought when JG took over mid season that this guy gets the team ready to play. He is a motivator. This team turned around when he took over and they fought.

Then I realized that the players gave up on wade and once he was fired that JJ said wade may not be the only one and no one was safe. And JJ knew they quit on the HC. So the players just got scared they could lose there cushy jobs also, so they started doing there jobs.

We have all watched JG learn how to be a HC on the job over the last 8 years. I have seen him ice his own kicker. Lol. At least he isn’t doing that anymore. I think he may have hit his ceiling. Seems we get outcoached when we hit the playoffs. Or he can’t get the team prepared for a big game. He was a player during our dominate team in the 90’s. Can’t build teams like that anymore with a salary cap. His playbook seems to be from the same era. Every year I hope he takes the next step.

you came up with that story all by yourself...good job (pat on the head).

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I think it's impossible to predict how college coaches will do in the NFL. Saban gave it a try and went 15-17. Steve Spurrier crashed to 12-20. Chip Kelly, who I wish was still in Philly, came and went at 28-36.

Then, there are success stories like Pete Carroll in Seattle, Jimmy Johnson, Bill Walsh, Dick Vermeil, Don Coryell and Tom Couglin.

pete carroll was a NFL coach. failed. learned in college and lucked into Wilson....lets not forget they traded for GB back up QB....but then again, its only JG who has won because of a good QB.

Jimmy had Aikman, a very average QB...err sorry, I forgot a HOFer.

Dick Vermil did it with a bunch of scrubs...wait...I am wrong. he had a HOF QB

ok, Coryell did it and won it all with a very average bunch...wait..he didn't win it and he had Dan Fouts. I stand corrected.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I wouldn't hire JG to coach high school ball ... he seem like a snake. Has no problem tossing players under the bus, but never is critical of his terrible coaching ...

which players did he throw under the boss, and can you please get with the other JG haters and figure out, do you want him to call out players or not. because some of the other haters want him to call out players and blame him for not doing it...its all confusing with all you haters

 

[Whyjerry]

I think Garrett will win 11-13 games this year and win our division, so the fringe element I think is way off. But out of the list of guys, I wouldn't want any of them over Garrett except Bill B. The ones from college are just as likely to be a flop as a good NFL coach, Saban is one of the best ever to coach College ball and was a very bad NFL coach, same with Chip Kelly and so many others. I would prefer to have the guy that has transformed this roster into a young, talented team, all the while getting the cap under control and has proven he can win 12, 13 games in the nfl, once with a great QB and once with a rookie QB. Garrett is an above average NFL coach, he is not great but he is better than most in the NFL, I would say around 10 or 11th out of the 32 HC. Maybe we could strike gold with a college HC, it certainly has happened before, but we would also risk getting a chip kelly type and destroying all the work over the last several years to put this team together. Just think of all the damage Wade did after Bill P left. We were on the edge and then that change totally caved in the progress that was made. It was shame really.

Garrett over Swinney and Meyer. Yeah that makes sense. You know you would be in the 1pct category there.

 

[OmerV]

Garrett over Swinney and Meyer. Yeah that makes sense. You know you would be in the 1pct category there.

I prefer the Cowboys get a new coach, but the truth is success as a college coach does not necessarily equate to success as a pro coach. That’s been proven time and again.

 

[Big_D]

It's weird how all the best coaches in the NFL have great quarterbacks and terrific personnel departments.

It's also weird how quality QBs excel under quality coaching. You don't truly have one without the other. Coaching, talent, scheme, development and preparation is usually when you put it altogether. You make it sound like the 70s Cowboys because they had Staubach would be no different if it was Landry or Garrett at the helm? The coach is playing chess. If he can't do that then it doesn't matter how good the QB is.

 

[kskboys]

pete carroll was a NFL coach. failed. learned in college and lucked into Wilson....lets not forget they traded for GB back up QB....but then again, its only JG who has won because of a good QB.

Jimmy had Aikman, a very average QB...err sorry, I forgot a HOFer.

Dick Vermil did it with a bunch of scrubs...wait...I am wrong. he had a HOF QB

ok, Coryell did it and won it all with a very average bunch...wait..he didn't win it and he had Dan Fouts. I stand corrected.

Carroll lucked into the deeptest DLine rotation in the NFL. He then paid his CB and started letting DLiners walk, and they were never the same.

 

[Whyjerry]

I prefer the Cowboys get a new coach, but the truth is success as a college coach does not necessarily equate to success as a pro coach. That’s been proven time and again.

Yes but those 2 are not your ordinary college coach. Last time Dallas did it, it worked out pretty well.

 

[OmerV]

Yes but those 2 are not your ordinary college coach. Last time Dallas did it, it worked out pretty well.

Neither was Steve Spurrier, Dennis Erickson and Bud Wilkinson. It can work out, but, again, nit may not.

 

[kskboys]

It's coaching and talent. Neither is any good w/o the other.

 

[Whyjerry]

Neither was Steve Spurrier, Dennis Erickson and Bud Wilkinson. It can work out, but, again, nit may not.

Hate to break it to you...those guys are not nearly in Meyer’s class.

 

[OmerV]

Hate to break it to you...those guys are not nearly in Meyer’s class.

I don’t particularly hate to break it to you, but they were all great college coaches, and regardless of exactly what order someone chooses to rank them, there is still no assurance of NFL success. Coaching college kids and spoiled rich men are different, recruiting isn’t a factor, and college schemes often doo notbwork in the NFL.

 

[OmerV]

Hate to break it to you...those guys are not nearly in Meyer’s class.

I don’t particularly hate to break it to you, but they were all great college coaches, and regardless of exactly what order someone chooses to rank them, there is still no assurance of NFL success. Coaching college kids and spoiled rich men are different, recruiting isn’t a factor, and college schemes often doo notbwork in the NFL.

Oh, and of course there is Nick Saban, probably the most successful college coach of all time. Not very good in the NFL.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

Garrett over Swinney and Meyer. Yeah that makes sense. You know you would be in the 1pct category there.

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Yes, I will take someone who has proven they can win at the NFL over a college coach who hasn't. It's nothing against any college coach and they both may be great at the NFL level, but they could just as easily be big flops too. Some of the coaches are very good because they have the best talent that money errr. recruiting, can get them. A program like Alabama, O State, etc, they get their pick of the best of the best for the most part. It's not that way in the NFL. Again, they may be great, but I will take the guy that has shown he can win at this level over a crap shot everytime.

 

[Whyjerry]

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Yes, I will take someone who has proven they can win at the NFL over a college coach who hasn't. It's nothing against any college coach and they both may be great at the NFL level, but they could just as easily be big flops too. Some of the coaches are very good because they have the best talent that money errr. recruiting, can get them. A program like Alabama, O State, etc, they get their pick of the best of the best for the most part. It's not that way in the NFL. Again, they may be great, but I will take the guy that has shown he can win at this level over a crap shot everytime.

8 plus years 1 playoff win. Where is the proven winner?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Carroll lucked into the deeptest DLine rotation in the NFL. He then paid his CB and started letting DLiners walk, and they were never the same.

you know carroll is the original clapper head coach....JG just copied him