Please... Stop bringing up Aikman...

[Hunter71]

its fair to say Turner has a losing record in two stops as a HC, but its also fair to say he was in arguably the worst situations in the NFC and AFC as well. Nobody has done anything with those teams


Hold on a second...

First you ask what has anyone done with those teams other than Gibbs taking them to the playoffs 2 years ago and Gruden/Callahan taking them to the playoffs and SB in the past 5 years...

NOW you say this...

that was 2002, it wasnt yesterday

So how exactly does one answer this question from you then if you won't accept the facts?...

The past 5 years, which included Norv in Oakland, now don't count?...

Interesting, especially when you say that you can't win with those franchises...

 

[Hunter71]

Pretty much. The fans, and the media in front of them, have convinced themselves that Norv is a victim of circumstance--that Norv really had nothing to do with his horrible record.

He is what he is! A BAD head coach! Not once, but twice! He wasn't mediocre, he SUCKED!

Oh, but he'd fix the offense and mentor Tony Romo? First off, there was nothing wrong with the offense to begin with. Second, why hire a HC to be a QB coach? The head coach has more responsibilities than making sure the QB works.

The defense needs to be fixed, first and foremost. And call me crazy, but I don't trust someone who was on staff during the meltdown last year (read: Bowles) to do that.

It all comes back to this damn nostalgia for the 90s. We need to wake up.

All great points...

Boo Hoo...

He coached the Raiders under Davis...

Guess what, so did Gruden and so did Callahan and they seemed to do OK...

Not go 9-23 in 2 seasons...

 

[dbair1967]

David...

The Skins, and I hate myself for saying this, are one of the most successful franchises in NFL history...

I agre, but you left off the key word, which is "were"...they've had one good season since 1991...think about that

And 2 years prior, both Chucky and Callahan to the Raiders to the AFC Championship game and SB, respectively...

this is true...but Callahan went to a Super Bowl 2002, got blown out tand then went 4-12 in 2003 and got canned...they had a very old team when Norv took over

And someone brought up Belichick as an example of a horrible coach in Cleveland...

Well, he took over a team that was also 2 years removed from the playoffs, had a 5-11 season, similar to Turner and then won a SB in his second season...

thats true he did...but maybe some of its because he got into the right situation...I think Belichick is a great coach, the best in football today...but he was lousy in Cleveland and turned it around when he got into the right situation...maybe Dallas is the right situation for Norv...I do know that whoever is hired here, will be coaching a pretty talented team

David

 

[dbair1967]

He signed off on drafting LaFleur and thought he was the next Novacek...

quit redoing history to support a truly flawed argument...he didnt "sign off" on anything...he went to a private wrokout and threw the guy a bunch of passes...we needed a TE badly and LaFleur was one of the top 2...we drafted him in the bottom 3rd of the 1st rd and he was a concensus 1st rd pick by everybody

Of course he's had a hand in all of this...

Including the firing of Switzer which was well-documented that Aikman wanted him out...

everybody wanted him out, Switzer was an awful HC...the coaches hated him, alot of the players liked him personally but thought he was bad for the team...Jones himself says he should have let Switzer go after the Super Bowl win over Pittsburgh...when most of the team was rebelling and rioting over the firing of Jimmy, it was Aikman who sold alot of the players on giving Switzer a chance...something you obviously didnt know or dont care to remember

Hmmmm...HOF QB versus a reckless HC...

David

 

[jazzcat22]

Any other team's fans would hurl themselves out of a window at the mere mention of Norv Turner being linked to their HC job. Norv Turner as a head coach is a punchline around the league.

Yes, the Aikman and the glory days factor means a lot.

Frankly, its absolutely appalling that Troy Aikman has any influence over this organization. Like it wasn't bad enough when he was playing that he could decide coaches and draft picks like the late 90's, he now gets to pick his coaches when he can't even win games for us.

The perception from fans.....think Troy has an influence on this team...he does not. Jerry WILL NOT choose Norv because Troy endorses him. Jerry will, and IF he chooses Norv, will do so because he believes he is the best man for the position at this time.

 

[dbair1967]

its fair to say Turner has a losing record in two stops as a HC, but its also fair to say he was in arguably the worst situations in the NFC and AFC as well. Nobody has done anything with those teams


Hold on a second...

First you ask what has anyone done with those teams other than Gibbs taking them to the playoffs 2 years ago and Gruden/Callahan taking them to the playoffs and SB in the past 5 years...

NOW you say this...

that was 2002, it wasnt yesterday

So how exactly does one answer this question from you then if you won't accept the facts?...

The past 5 years, which included Norv in Oakland, now don't count?...

Interesting, especially when you say that you can't win with those franchises...

Washington made th Super Bowl in 1991...they made the playoffs (barely) the following year...since then 2 playoff appearances in 15 years...Joe Gibbs did get the Commanders past the 1st rd of the playoffs, but he also has 6-10 and 5-11 records his other two seasons

Oakland was good under Gruden...then Callahan got Gruden team (old team) to a superbowl, got blown out and went 4-12 the next yr...every yr since then has been bad and its getting worse

David

 

[dfense]

Actually, Norv didn't do that bad in Washington. He inherited a bad team to start. Then a new owner who was waiting to dump him. He left the team in better shape then when he got there and had to deal with a complete idiot in Snyder. And as far as Oakland...who can win there?

I recall his offense in Washington was tough on the Cowboys. Especially his inside running game. He could probably teach Julius a thing or two about that. As I recall, Schottenheimer came in and couldn't win a game for a few months with the same team. Norv could teach alot to a guy like Garrett.

 

[Hunter71]

quit redoing history to support a truly flawed argument...he didnt "sign off" on anything...he went to a private wrokout and threw the guy a bunch of passes...we needed a TE badly and LaFleur was one of the top 2...we drafted him in the bottom 3rd of the 1st rd and he was a concensus 1st rd pick by everybody

Yeah...

You're right...



Web posted Thursday, December 18, 1997

Cowboys' forgotten rookie TE remembered by Aikman


IRVING - If there ever was a forgotten Cowboy, it was rookie tight end David LaFleur.

A much-heralded first round draft pick, wearing the official stamp of approval from quarterback Troy Aikman, the 6-foot-7, 280 pound former LSU star was expected to be just what the doctor ordered for Dallas' sickly offense.

Without Jay Novacek, the Cowboys offense was 24th in the NFL in 1996. Finding a solid blocking, pass catching tight end was a big offseason priority for coach Barry Switzer.

In training camp, Aikman spoke glowingly of LaFleur, whom he had personally worked out while the Cowboys were trying to decide their draft order last April.

 

[jazzcat22]

Actually, Norv didn't do that bad in Washington. He inherited a bad team to start. Then a new owner who was waiting to dump him. He left the team in better shape then when he got there and had to deal with a complete idiot in Snyder. And as far as Oakland...who can win there?

I recall his offense in Washington was tough on the Cowboys. Especially his inside running game. He could probably teach Julius a thing or two about that. As I recall, Schottenheimer came in and couldn't win a game for a few months with the same team. Norv could teach alot to a guy like Garrett.

good point

I am not saying bring in Norv, but I am not opposed to it either. I think it will be the best thing for Romo, and Garrett as well. He can be a mentor for Jason, not that Norv would be retiring soon, but in case something does happen. JJ wouldn't need to go through another search for a head coach.

If Sean Payton can turn around the Saints as he did, why can't Norv come in here with a good team already and do better.

 

[Gaede]

so, we bring in the head coach so he can teach another coach, and take care of the QB

What about the rest of the team? How is hiring Norv going to address the real problem on the team, the defense????

We don't need a mentor for an up and coming coach, we don't need a babysitter for the QB.

 

[ZeroClub]

Somebody has got to be the head coach.

As far as I can tell, there isn't an unflawed candidate out there.

So Norv has some flaws -- so what? The other candidates do too.

IMO, if you want to argue against Norv Turner (or any candidate), you need to present a better, less flawed, alternative.

Norv got that offense humming in SF. And it isn't like he had a bunch of all-stars to work with.

 

[Hunter71]

Somebody has got to be the head coach.

As far as I can tell, there isn't an unflawed candidate out there.

So Norv has some flaws -- so what? The other candidates do too.

IMO, if you want to argue against Norv Turner (or any candidate), you need to present a better, less flawed, alternative.

Norv got that offense humming in SF. And it isn't like he had a bunch of all-stars to work with.

Just because someone "has to be the head coach" doesn't mean you take someone who has failed in his 2 HC ventures...

Why not Philips who has a winning record?...

Why not take a chance on Rivera or Gibbs?...

This affection for Turner because he has a good offensive mind which people somehow think can translate into a successful gig in Dallas is just strange to me...

 

[Hunter71]

Then again...

I'm also the same idiot who thought Skyler was going to be a gem for us this past season...

I'm the definition of a MMQB...

 

[Gaede]

Somebody has got to be the head coach.

As far as I can tell, there isn't an unflawed candidate out there.

So Norv has some flaws -- so what? The other candidates do too.

IMO, if you want to argue against Norv Turner (or any candidate), you need to present a better, less flawed, alternative.

Norv got that offense humming in SF. And it isn't like he had a bunch of all-stars to work with.

Okay:

Wade has a winning record as a head coach. Norv has a losing record as a head coach.

Niners offense in 2006: Yards per Game (ie, total offense) 26th, 6th in rushing, 29th in passing, 24th in points and points per game

Yup. Stellar offense

San Diego's Defense: 10th overall, 7th against the run, 13th against the pass, 7th in points and points per game

So given the choice:

Wade performed considerably better than Norv as a coordinator in 2006. Wade has performed, again-considerably, better than Norv as a head coach throughout his career. Thus, the best option between Wade and Norv is Wade.

But hey, Norv can teach Jason Garrett! That'll make his mediocrity totally tolerable!

 

[ZeroClub]

Just because someone "has to be the head coach" doesn't mean you take someone who has failed in his 2 HC ventures...

Why not Philips who has a winning record?...

Why not take a chance on Rivera or Gibbs?...

This affection for Turner because he has a good offensive mind which people somehow think can translate into a successful gig in Dallas is just strange to me...

And what about Philips? He's been fired twice and twice has been the interim head coach who wasn't hired. That's not a ringing endorsement either.

As for rolling the dice with an on-the-job trainee, IMO, it is a bigger gamble than the Cowboys need to make right now. Especially if Jones is bringing in youthful coordinators.

 

[hank2k]

The true irony of Turners hire will be that Romo isnt really a Turner system type QB. His arm strength isnt good enough. Norv is a big 7 step drop guy, Aikman had the gun for it. Romos' more of a WCO type,3-5 step drop, moving around in the pocket, improvising etc.

Thus the one reason we hire Turner (to develop Romo)will be a flop as well.

( And yes, Ive had 3 cups of Haterade this morning)

 

[tnewman41]

man turner got fired in washington during the season with a winning record and the year before he won the division title and came with in one play of the nfc championship game. he was fired in washington cuz snyder didnt hire him and he wanted his own guy to be hc. and his time in oakland shouldnt count at all because he didnt have anything to work with there.

 

[Gaede]

so what about all the other years he sucked?

I'm sure there's an excuse floating around for them too

 

[DizzG]

blaming the problems the Commanders had or freak Oakland on Turner is absurd. I really dont think you can hold those situations on the guy as examples that he somehow sucks. not many could have done well in those spots he was stuck in.

as to stop bringing up Aikman. no

I value his opinion far more than any internet message board wannabe coach.

Moose has also said that he thinks Norv is the best choice and would do great....as has Jimmy Johnson

I put more stock in their knowledge than anyone in the media or on a message board.

 

[Gaede]

yeah, it's absurd to blame the head coach for the problems of his team.

I mean, it's not like he's supposed to be in charge of the players or anything