Prepare for Impact! (Who gets some?)

[T-RO]

Offense and defense are no longer equal in value....imo

A point scored = A point suppressed.

Defensive players as a group are typically on the field just as much as offensive players. We'll have our QB, but we'll have to stop the opposing quarterback.

Sure seems like Ying and Yang. Mirror opposites. Two sides of the same coin, IMO. Curious to hear you explain why offense should have more value?

 

[eromeopolk]

Once upon a time, that was true.

Trust me it is still true. KC ran the ball to win, pass the ball to score, and their defense won the championship.

 

[T-RO]

I agree with u and would push it even farther. Can anyone really think of a great QB in the modern era...whose team sucked?

You can find teams with great WRs or RBs or DEnds or corners....even HOF guys at those positions, aying on bad teams... but if you show me a top 5 QB, then his team is in the playoffs, even moreso in the last 10 years or so.

I'd be willing to stretch that to 40 or even 50% for QB alone. It's that important....and has that much trickle down effect on all other units including defense.

The Ravens won a SB with an average QB in 2000 with an all time great defense, but rules were different then. As a GREAT example, our arch rival Eagles had one of the top 5 greatest defenses of all time in 1991, with Reggie White in his prime. #1 against Pass, #1 against run, #1 overall Defense, with a HOFer and 7 or 8 probowlers just on defense. But they had to play with a bad QB that year, and couldn't even make a wildcard game, because they lost a zillion games 10 to 9.

You have a Top 5 all time QB, I don't care how bad ur defense or special teams are, ur making the playoffs and will probably win at least 1 SB in his career

Hit you with a 'like' as you are making a thoughtful argument here. Do have to disagree, though.

42 of 53 (79%) of Super Bowl champs featured defenses that ranked in the top eight.

All (5 of 5) Cowboys Super Bowl winning teams possessed top-8 defenses. And for a bit of a shock? Consider that Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and John Elway never won a Super Bowl without a top 8 defense!

Offense and defense are equally important, IMO.

 

[shabazz]

Perhaps why Romo teams never made it to the SB because they didn't have the kind of defense to overcome all the critical turnovers that Romo created.

this reminds me of the Cowboys loss to the Broncos 51-49 in 2013

Romo 25/36 506 yards 5 TDs, 1 int
Manning 33/42 414 yards 4 TDs, 1 Int

Romo outgunned Payton Manning in every category and his DEFENSE still found a way to lose him the game……… #1 overall pick outplayed by an UDFA , son

 

[CowboysLakerBamaFan]

Hit you with a 'like' as you are making a thoughtful argument here. Do have to disagree, though.

42 of 53 (79%) of Super Bowl champs featured defenses that ranked in the top eight.

All (5 of 5) Cowboys Super Bowl winning teams possessed top-8 defenses. And for a bit of a shock? Consider that Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and John Elway never won a Super Bowl without a top 8 defense!

Offense and defense are equally important, IMO.

Maybe it's just not as easy as a pie chart.

Maybe it's more like....IF you have a great QB...THEN a great defense makes you a superBowl favorite.

I think just assigning percentages to each group to determine success just doesn't really work. It's more intertwined than that.

 

[Adreme]

This second graph builds upon the first and expands details about offense.

These are my estimations, though I could see prioritizing it differently. Am I shafting the trenches? Running Back? QB?

I think you are drastically selling the TE position short. KC's run last year was built on the idea that when they needed yards they could throw to Kelce and no one could stop it. You see the same thing with Kittle and Andrews. Teams that have a legit TE mismatch can just run their entire offense through that and find success.

 

[Ranching]

Sounds good, but one could say the space in between all 3 sections could be labeled the coaching staff.

It all goes through the OL and DL
......anyone that understands football knows that. The haters will say QB.....but if the OL gives him time, he'll be fine.
Coaching is important, but play calling is the most important!

 

[T-RO]

I think you are drastically selling the TE position short.

At the end of the day...Isn't Kelce a glorified WR?

Rarely plays in-line. He blocks on runs, but so do wide receivers. Don't think he's anything special as a blocker. I view him as a big WR.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks, Fuzzy....that does certainly relate to our discussion.

Sounds like the analytics team at ESPN is borrowing existing concepts like WAR (a player's Wins Added Above Replacement) or Pro Football References's "Approximate Value" .

Trying initially to just to set the table for the full family, but happy to discuss as we move along.

It's all good. I am just saying that when you want to talk about impact, win shares has got to be the best metric out there.

One thing that stands out when looking at it is, QB has about 3 times as much impact as the other positions and that a great player transcends the position when it comes to impact. IOW, a great TE or RB has the same WS as a great WR. Similarly on defense a great S has a similar impact to a great DE.

The take away is that we need our stars to play well. Prescott would have 3 times the impact as anyone else but Diggs, Pollard, Parsons, Lamb, and the other players collectively have a greater impact.

 

[T-RO]

It all goes through the OL and DL

Agree that the o-line and d-line together *must* rank near 30% of the impact of a football team, if not more.

 

[Whyjerry]

Let's give Bobhaze some love too.

40% T-Ro
40% Bobhaze
20% the rest of us clowns.

Listen everyone here knows Bob brings it all the time. It’s a given like turning the key on a Toyota.

TRO, at least from where I sit, has been straight fire recently. It’s July. I really appreciate it.

 

[Adreme]

At the end of the day...Isn't Kelce a glorified WR?

Rarely plays in-line. He blocks on runs, but so do wide receivers. Don't think he's anything special as a blocker. I view him as a big WR.

That feels like a cheap out. If they are skilled at receiving as well as blocking we call them WRs. Gronk was another mismatch that basically was the lynchpin of his teams and he was not a WR. Graham as well. They are TEs. The thing that makes them a threat is if you try to put a corner on them, they audible to a run and suddenly there is a massive hole. It is part of what being a TE in the NFL is now. That is the evolution of the position so just dismiss as not really the position just does not make sense.

 

[T-RO]

That feels like a cheap out. If they are skilled at receiving as well as blocking we call them WRs. Gronk was another mismatch that basically was the lynchpin of his teams and he was not a WR. Graham as well. They are TEs. The thing that makes them a threat is if you try to put a corner on them, they audible to a run and suddenly there is a massive hole. It is part of what being a TE in the NFL is now. That is the evolution of the position so just dismiss as not really the position just does not make sense.

What impact percentage would you suggest for tight ends?

 

[T-RO]

QB only 15%? I'd easily double that if not more. It's the most important position in professional sports.

Is this more what you were thinking?

 

[tyke1doe]

It all goes through the OL and DL
......anyone that understands football knows that. The haters will say QB.....but if the OL gives him time, he'll be fine.
Coaching is important, but play calling is the most important!

Isn't play calling a part of coaching?
How are you making the distinction?

 

[Ranching]

Isn't play calling a part of coaching?
How are you making the distinction?

Coaching is about technique and fundamentals along with teaching mental toughness. Only one coach calls the plays....it's like playing chess. It's a gift.

 

[blueblood70]

Perhaps why Romo teams never made it to the SB because they didn't have the kind of defense to overcome all the critical turnovers that Romo created.

On this teams, the defense mattered more.

I like how people keep saying that and Roger Staubach and Troy and had far more interceptions and mistakes made in the playoffs then Romo or Prescott you should go back and check because I know it's hard for memory to remember the interceptions but they were just reshowing a first half interception by Troy Aikman in the second Super Bowl with the Buffalo Bills they were down by 7 at the half I'd say that that's Troy aikman's fault and what did they do the defense overcame it in the third quarter and then they drove down with an 80% run offense that then take the lead had nothing to do with Troy Troy was dinking and dunking the ball the whole entire game,

I put up the stats before Roger Staubach and Troy aikman's touchdown interception ratio in the regular season didn't change much in the playoffs they were who they were their teams were good enough to overcome it but to say that Romo had more critical turnovers is being blind to the facts yes the teams were better for Troy and Roger and they did overcome anything that happened at other positions including quarterback. Tony Romo and Prescott have a better touchdown interception ratio both in the regular season and the playoffs they did not have that kind of team or coaching to overcome the mistakes made by anyone else on the team..

So yeah you are correct just like Matthew Stafford had 20 turnovers we see Josh Allen who leads the league since he's been a rookie in total turnovers as a quarterback it's all around the league Peyton Manning I mean I guess his teams had to be really good because he had twice as many interceptions as Prescott and way more than Romo and here we are just talking about romo's critical turnovers come on dude wake up don't be blind..

 

[blueblood70]

Perhaps why Romo teams never made it to the SB because they didn't have the kind of defense to overcome all the critical turnovers that Romo created.

On this teams, the defense mattered more.

roger
td 153-109 ints Playoffs 24td 19INTs(umm none of those critical LMAO) UMM OK

Troy-
165-141 playoffs 23tds-17 INts(right none critical huh?) no way jimmy would have put up with that

Dwhite
155-132 playoffs 15-17 WOW no way TL puts up with mistakes at critical time LOL

Romo
248-117 playoffs 8 tds 2 INts show me the critical INts hmm his td-int ratio is much better

Dak
166-65 playoffs 11-5ints

I'm not a math genius but I've gotta tell you the memories of some of y'all and selective memories of the Super bowls are blinding you to facts yes Roger and Troy were part of Super Bowl teams and yes they had a great career but in no way shape or form were they perfect at their position if you look at their touchdown interception ratios and I know you for one trying to tell me that Tom Landry and Jimmy Johnson would not put up with turnovers and yet they threw more turnovers then Prescott or Romo and please don't bring that stupid debate in about that era to me those interceptions I mean 19 interceptions by your boy Roger and 17 by Troy that's a lot they barely had more touchdowns to offset their turnovers.

 

[StarOfGlory]

The ability of one's special teams play can affect how a game is coached. A team that can trot out a kicker that can hit a field goal between 50-57 yards with a higher than average degree of success gives a coaching staff more room to work with in the playbook and with overall strategy. I don't think any percentage of impact varies more game-to-game than special teams.

 

[CowboyFrog]

QB only 15%? I'd easily double that if not more. It's the most important position in professional sports.

Hockey goalie if we are talking contribution to actual win/loss.. but QB would be second.