Pretending I Am the GM

[Shake_Tiller]

So I give you quotes from Singeltary that stated he beat us when his cornerback tired to press him and you tell me to watch the game?

I don't mean that to be as disrespectful as it sounded, and I apologize for that. It was a poor bit of phrasing. What I meant was one could watch the game and see the corner wasn't pressing. Singletary was being defensive. Some things are objective and can be observed. The corner wasn't pressing.

 

[khiladi]

I am sorry to be so long winded. One more thing. The term "double coverage" is used far too glibly. Often a safety over the top is positioned in such a way as to deal with a particular threat. But he is not in pure double coverage. Owens drew a lot of attention, but having a safety over the top isn't pure double coverage, and the best wideouts beat that coverage more often than not.

Of course, but we also no teams shift their defense to the side of Owens. Further, the best WRs don't beat that coverage more often than not. If they did, like I said before, Warner would be throwing close to 100 percent to LF. A lot of it depends on the actual routes the WR is running. a WR running deep vertical htreats into that type of vertical coverage, will more likely not beat the coverage.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Wittne fumbles the ball... TO wasn't even near the league-leader in drops this year and plenty of his catches were flat-out ridiculous this year. And how does a guy that has been running the West Coast offense successfully for years, run bad routes? Seems like people by the hype. Roy Williams looked like a scrub WR this year, and Crayton looked far below average this year. I didn't see RW complaing about an injury, I saw him complaining about not getting the ball, and when he did get the ball, he was yelling to the sidelines to get him the ball.Funny thing is, when RW came on board, everybody who hated TO was all about how we just need to throw the ball to RW, because he made some spectacular grabs and was sure-handed. Funny how they turned coat at the end of the year and started saying he couldn't run routes. Talk about indecisive....

I don't know about any of that. I won't argue the points about Williams. But I watched the ballgames. Owens dropped far too many passes. Witten? Sure, he had his foibles. But Witten is an elite TE. Owens is no longer in that kind of discussion.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't want it to be a 50/50 either. I just want to control the clock and move the chains rather than look for quick strikes. That means Witten, Williams and Crayton fit the bill more. I want to throw the ball, but in a manner that eat sup the clock and keeps the Defense fresh to wreak havoc.

Hos, I think under many circumstances you are correct, but this is such a mistake laden group on offense that I just don't see it being able to put together enough of those time-eating drives together to make it a good offense. It will invariably kill itself with penalties.

So what's left?

Trying to score quickly via the big play.

Maybe not a perfect solution but when you have lemons, you make...

 

[Shake_Tiller]

Of course, but we also no teams shift their defense to the side of Owens. Further, the best WRs don't beat that coverage more often than not. If they did, like I said before, Warner would be throwing close to 100 percent to LF. A lot of it depends on the actual routes the WR is running. a WR running deep vertical htreats into that type of vertical coverage, will more likely not beat the coverage.

Maybe we're into semantics here... Nobody, not even Jerry Rice, won every battle. But Owens is shut down now more than in the past. The fault isn't all his, but some of it is. There is no shame in it. The man is in his mid-30s.

 

[khiladi]

The fact is, TO isn't being used to his skill-set. As even Singeltary acknowledged, they used TO more in motion during that game. This has always been the skill-set of TO. It hasn't changed.That is on Jason garrett, who doesn't utilize his personnel to the talents they have.Well copngratulations SIngletary... You just faced TO when Garrett decided to use him more according to his talents...

 

[khiladi]

Maybe we're into semantics here... Nobody, not even Jerry Rice, won every battle. But Owens is shut down now more than in the past. The fault isn't all his, but some of it is. There is no shame in it. The man is in his mid-30s.

I dispute that the drop-off is that significant. It has more to do with Garrett, thwho can't use personnel according to their strengths.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

The fact is, TO isn't being used to his skill-set. As even Singeltary acknowledged, they used TO more in motion during that game. They didn't double him as much. This has always been the skill-set of TO. It hasn't changed.That is on Jason garrett, who doesn't utilize his personnel to the talents they have.

Maybe. You could be correct. I don't know. Some things are fairly easy to see on TV or at the stadium. Some things are difficult to see. I don't think Garrett made the most of Owens, but I couldn't schematically describe the approach that would have been better. At the same time, Owens is not the player he once was, so assuming he can still do things as well now as he did in the past is a stretch, I think.

Owens isn't "just a guy," but he's headed that direction.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I dispute that the drop-off is that significant. It has more to do with Garrett, thwho can't use personnel according to their strengths.

It's your opinion, and you could be correct. I have my opinion, which differs. That doesn't make me right, obviously. It's just an opinion.

 

[Hostile]

Hard to argue with the points you make here HOS.

But let me ask a few questions:

What was the difference between the 2007 Owens and 2008 Owens?

Werder's report after "next question," "next question," and "next question." He made it personal. They took it to another level.

Again, he was a symptom, not the only problem. This is what his faux pas was.

If we could win 13 games and the #1 seed with Owens in 2007, why not 2009?

Years don't correlate to each other. We very well may be able to go 15-1 with him. But IMO it is only if he shuts up. It's about football, not his opinions.

How would you compare and contrast Owens and Burress?

Compare...both are diva WRs. Contrast...the media doesn't have a Jones for Burress stories, they itch for an Owens one.

If the 2007 Giants could win the 2007 SB, with a modest roster (including Burress) and a team first attitude, why can't the Cowboys do it with Owens in 2009?

They can. Owens needs to have the team first attitiude. I don't believe he ever will.

I believe if you honestly tackle these questions, you'll realize a few things:

That this team's problem is not Owens.

Agreed, I said he a symptom, not the problem.

That releasing one of it's best players, will not help the Cowboys.

I simply don't agree. I think just like Pacman he brings too much bad karma.

That this team's problems had nothing to do with any of the players on the roster. Owens, P Jones, T. Johnson.

Again, I don't agree. If these guys are as disruptive as the reports say and have attitudes like Tank's reported to have then they are not helping us as much as they could be. I don't want guys who aren't giving full effort.

This team's problems are the result of the approach and philosophy of its management and coaching staff.

I consider this a completely nonsensical idea. You just told me these guys aren't the problem, now you are reversing field to say that management acquiring guys like this, (in other words, their philosophy) is the problem.

We are drafting well and not cap strapped. Management is not the issue.

The team simply needs more discipline and a tougher practice schedule/routine. This must come from the powers that be.

That is a one of the symptoms. I agree with that.

Releasing Owens does not solve this problem.

Again, it releives a symptom of the greater disease.

 

[Hostile]

Great post. And its true. BTW you forgot about Irvin's drug use and drug arrest.
But Irvin's a life long Cowboy. He never played for the opposition, stood on the star to try to humiliate the Cowboys.

Owens is and probably will always be viewed by most as a mercinary.

If he plays a couple more years, wins a SB, and ultimately goes into the HOF as a Cowboy, that will change the minds of many Cowboy fans.

Short of that, he'll never have much benefit of the doubt collateral.

We never won again after Irvin and other players started making the police blotter reports.

He was arrested in March 1996. We won 1 playoff game that year, lost the next and have not won since. It was the heyday of the White House and the downfall of a dynasty.

So it doesn't exactly work to say we survived Michael Irvin's escapades because they didn't hit the air waves until we were on the downhill slide. A slide I predicted the day we hired Barry Switzer. I remember the Bootlegger's Boy and how his light hand took down Oklahoma.

We have never recovered from the arrest of Irvin. He took us down. Now Owens and his ilk have us down. There's too much talent on this roster to let it run amok.

 

[Hostile]

Hos, I think under many circumstances you are correct, but this is such a mistake laden group on offense that I just don't see it being able to put together enough of those time-eating drives together to make it a good offense. It will invariably kill itself with penalties.

So what's left?

Trying to score quickly via the big play.

Maybe not a perfect solution but when you have lemons, you make...

In this case you'd make lemon dish soap. Drink if you wish.

 

[wileedog]

This team's problems are the result of the approach and philosophy of its management and coaching staff..

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

But I think one of the primary deficiencies of the coaching staff is a lack of leadership - an inability to get the players to buy into the program, to not put themselves and their personal goals before the team.

What that does is let a TO step into the void, and there is no doubt this team is influenced by his attitude. When you win, its because you are great. When you lose, its because the coaching/game plan was bad and the "right" players weren't utilized in the "right" way.

All encouraged by a coach who indeed does go ahead and take the blame for everything.

This isn't about off the field incidents. Its not about Irvin's misteps or dominoes in the locker room. Its about accountability, its about the players who take a lead role on the team - and no question Owen's is one of them - being on the same page and being more worried about winning games than if he is being put in motion enough. Or even showing what it means to take personal accountability. Ever hear Owens say "Yeah that was my fault, it was a good pass I just dropped it."?

I agree with Hos - the atmosphere of this locker must change. You can do that by

1 - Replacing the coaching
2 - Removing TO
3 - Wade "changing" to be a real leader or TO just shutting up.

I'd prefer 1. I'd settle for 2. 3 ain't happening.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

But I think one of the primary deficiencies of the coaching staff is a lack of leadership - an inability to get the players to buy into the program, to not put themselves and their personal goals before the team.

What that does is let a TO step into the void, and there is no doubt this team is influenced by his attitude. When you win, its because you are great. When you lose, its because the coaching/game plan was bad and the "right" players weren't utilized in the "right" way.

All encouraged by a coach who indeed does go ahead and take the blame for everything.

This isn't about off the field incidents. Its not about Irvin's misteps or dominoes in the locker room. Its about accountability, its about the players who take a lead role on the team - and no question Owen's is one of them - being on the same page and being more worried about winning games than if he is being put in motion enough. Or even showing what it means to take personal accountability. Ever hear Owens say "Yeah that was my fault, it was a good pass I just dropped it."?

I agree with Hos - the atmosphere of this locker must change. You can do that by

1 - Replacing the coaching
2 - Removing TO
3 - Wade "changing" to be a real leader or TO just shutting up.

I'd prefer 1. I'd settle for 2. 3 ain't happening.

This is such a good post and says better than I've been able what has been on my mind. The ideal scenario would see the Cowboys having the leadership in place to take full advantage of Owens' talents. It isn't there, so the only default is a less attractive scenario.

 

[LatinMind]

I understand what you're saying, but can I offer a couple of arguments?

One, the same media that report Owens' activities report those of Romo. If they are not credible where Owens is concerned, why are they credible regarding Romo's work ethic?

work ethic? im talking about his bad throws. not only to owens but anybody
that was more then 10 yrds down the field.

theres a difference between owens and romo and its this. owens is passionate about the game. u can see that when they lose win or whatever. he plays like somebody who loves the game. romo it seems doesnt have that same passion. everybodys talked about how he just pushes losses aside, smile at interceptions.

the problem is, people hate owens. sure he's burnt bridges in other places. but in dallas he's a leader. he's a vocal leader and most of all, the players respect him. u can see that. sure theres a player that will be " a source " in somebodies article. but when its said and done. if dallas had 22 players who played with the same passon owens shows every game. this team would be a superbowl contender.

no matter what arguement u try to make, u cant get around the fact that owens opens up the field for witten, roy, barber, crayton. its just too bad the only person who can take advantage of that is witten. thats not owens fault. without owens this team is below .500. dallas has 2 players who they cant replace. and thats romo and owens.

 

[Shake_Tiller]

work ethic? im talking about his bad throws. not only to owens but anybody
that was more then 10 yrds down the field.

theres a difference between owens and romo and its this. owens is passionate about the game. u can see that when they lose win or whatever. he plays like somebody who loves the game. romo it seems doesnt have that same passion. everybodys talked about how he just pushes losses aside, smile at interceptions.

the problem is, people hate owens. sure he's burnt bridges in other places. but in dallas he's a leader. he's a vocal leader and most of all, the players respect him. u can see that. sure theres a player that will be " a source " in somebodies article. but when its said and done. if dallas had 22 players who played with the same passon owens shows every game. this team would be a superbowl contender.

no matter what arguement u try to make, u cant get around the fact that owens opens up the field for witten, roy, barber, crayton. its just too bad the only person who can take advantage of that is witten. thats not owens fault. without owens this team is below .500. dallas has 2 players who they cant replace. and thats romo and owens.

I recognize your points, but I disagree. Demeanor doesn't always reflect true passion. I don't question Owens' passion, but I'm not prepared to question Romo's either on the back of his post-game demeanor.

I don't like what it appears Owens has done to this team. I recognize that others don't agree with the premise. In my view, he has been destructive to the locker room.

As for Owens' talent... he is a very good player. Again, I think he is a declining player, and I've always thought the old adage is true. Rid yourself of a player a year too early rather than a year too late. I realize Owens has no trade value, which changes the point, but I still believe the Cowboys will never move ahead with their passing game as long as Owens demands the ball.

If the Cowboys keep Owens, I will root very, very hard for him to prove me wrong.

 

[LatinMind]

I recognize your points, but I disagree. Demeanor doesn't always reflect true passion. I don't question Owens' passion, but I'm not prepared to question Romo's either on the back of his post-game demeanor.

I don't like what it appears Owens has done to this team. I recognize that others don't agree with the premise. In my view, he has been destructive to the locker room.

As for Owens' talent... he is a very good player. Again, I think he is a declining player, and I've always thought the old adage is true. Rid yourself of a player a year too early rather than a year too late. I realize Owens has no trade value, which changes the point, but I still believe the Cowboys will never move ahead with their passing game as long as Owens demands the ball.

If the Cowboys keep Owens, I will root very, very hard for him to prove me wrong.

i guess thats why, fans are fans, and the team are the ones making the decisions. because fans are biased. the team does whats best for the team. and for that reason owens will be a cowboy in 09, and most likely in 2010.

what i dont understand is how people want to say 69 catches, 1052 yrd and 10 tds is a declining player? anybody care to think about owens numbers if romo wasnt out for 4 games? he would have probably had a better yr then last. owens demands the ball? he said that? or was that roy williams?

 

[LatinMind]

i just dont see all the talk about owens being cut.

how about cut players like roy williams(38), marcus spears, kevin burnett, cory proctor brad johnsdon(why are then even on the team?) anthony henry.

talk about how this team doesnt even play like a team. about how this team lacks simple fundamentals. about why the coaching staff runs its lone healthy rb(choice) in motion out of the backfield on 4th and 1 vs the steelers only to hand off to deon anderson? lol u kidding me?

theres plenty wrong with ths team. but it isnt owens. too many of u have been drinking that ESPN koolaid all of u say u hate. alot of this forum is starting to sound like skip bayless. thankfully for me michael a smith is always around to shut him up and make him look dumb.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

There needs to be a new attitude and change in Valley Ranch. Too many overpaid veterans on this team with ZERO leadership.

Cut
TO
Henry
Ellis

Let Tank,Zach go seek jobs.

We need some fresh blood in here, who actually WANT to win. Plenty of draft choices to fill these holes. Maybe one or two small FA signings. I'm just tired of seeing Ellis,Henry and TO bring nothing but whining,torching and distraction to this team. We still have the pieces! just need the role players..

 

[JordanTaber]

Yep, you eliminate the symptoms so you can cure the disease. In this case losing.

You don't cure diseases by eliminating symptoms: While the symptoms (talking) can be miserable for the sufferer (in this case, the one suffering is the fans on message boards), eliminating said symptoms doesn't cure the root of the problem which is the reason those symptoms are there in the first place.

The root of the problem is losing, and the losing has been the result of a number of different things. None more important than Romo, Roy 11, Witten, and Barber being hurt.